Are we made in God's image?

[Vociferous]

You need to be a little more positive..hopeful perhaps..just think of all the things folk thought were impossible but are with us today..flight..it could never happen..now look...motor cars..some thought if a human went faster than 40 miles an hour they would die..something like that...you dont want to be one of those " it will never happen" guys do you?

If I claimed "it will never happen", I couldn't honestly say it could falsify God. What I did say was that you may be waiting as long as people awaiting the return of Christ. See how much your faith has in common with theirs? You'll believe, no matter how long the wait.

I like Chemistry I was good at it..when 11 years old could pass leaving certificate chemistry exams..you know how if a kid likes something they lap it up... sure this final thing, lets call it life force, seems something beyond us just like flying but our bodies function via chemical reaction and so that hints at its importance and the possibility that life is merely a chemical reaction.

No, sadly for you and you childhood dreams, it doesn't. We've always had birds as a model for knowing flight may be possible, but we've never had any such model for life from chemistry. Human teleportation, FTL, and time travel seems beyond us too. And even though modern science says none of those are possible, are you waiting for those too? I guess hope spring eternal for the faithful.

Perhaps you could show how that works...and if it does ring up The Athieist Experience..do you know that show?...and man could you have some fun...I would like to see that...how confident are you..come on make a full case and see if the clever ones here can pull it apart.

I've repeatedly said that my case is largely based on anecdotal personal experience. That there is no evidence for God, expressly because people need free will to believe. But just like anyone else, I'm supremely confident in my own personal experiences. That doesn't mean it's the least bit compelling or convincing. Too bad you can't admit the same of your beliefs.

..but you still need proof.

Maybe you really don't know this, but science can't "prove" anything. Proof only exists in axiomatic systems of logic, like mathematics. So proof cannot be found by evidence and testing. It can only derive from logic. Now, science does provide a degree of confidence in fact supported by evidence. But as I've repeatedly told you, those don't exist for abiogenesis.

So what happens with your God..has he any plans to visit, intervene or flood the place?

Again, that would negate the free will involved in belief.

And never aspired to be virtuous?

It's ironic really, here is you with your very own God and no aspirations to be virtuous and here is me no God and being virtuous is most all I think about...it's it's own reward as you know you try your best to be decent you can be proud of yourself..you know high self esteem..to me high self esteem is success.
Folk who don't have it are usually lossers.

Those without a thing are often obsessed with it, and feel that some action or external validation is required for self-esteem. The "if I just do that or be this, I will feel better about myself" mentality. It's a false self-esteem.

Again we are opposite here..I love to be nice, I love being kind to people and animals even insects..when you are nice and kind everything works and you want for nothing.

Everything works and I want for nothing, but without trying or worrying about it. People often mistake niceness for what simply appeases them. Integrity means the right thing is not always the nice thing.

Anyways you don't see a problem with being offensive which is odd given your earlier performance today...I am not sure how you get along with folk in the real world..are they frightened of you or do you get pushed around.

Oh, have I offended you? Are your sensitivities so fragile? Care to compare my offense to your recent one? Is mine somehow worse? Do tell.

 

[paddoboy]

Now, science does provide a degree of confidence in fact supported by evidence. But as I've repeatedly told you, those don't exist for abiogenesis.

Such an opinion has been developed to avoid conflicting with your magic spaghetti monster.... Many lines of evidence, including the theory of evolution, and the discipline of chemistry and cosmology over 13.83 billion years, show that Abiogenesis is the only scientific answer, as well as being so overwhelmingly supported by that evidence, seen as fact. The methodology isn't known, but that does not detract from Abiogenesis, at least in the opinion/s of professional scientists and the average Joe Blow that is able to display some intellectual honesty, uncontaminated by silly conventional myth and hand-me-down stories.

But getting back to the matter of the title of this thread, being made in God's image...at what stage of our evolution is he/she/it interested in? And in whose image was this supposed creator himself created in? Do all powerful omnipotent spaghetti monsters exist??

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

See how much your faith has in common with theirs?

No I dont see anything in common at all.

And really I don't need to wait as I know the truth now.

Did you see that link where now there is a prize of ten million pounds, which is not that much money really these days, which you will be able to claim as scientists desperate attempt to make something happen no doubt...but hopefully the honor of winning may drive someone to go for it.

We've always had birds as a model for knowing flight may be possible, but we've never had any such model for life from chemistry.

True and we never had a model for any gods but humans have been inventing gods for a long time now and life from chemistry makes more sense than any one of the thousands of invented human gods.

And even though modern science says none of those are possible, are you waiting for those too?

Is that one of them logical fallacies? If it is does that make you a hypocrite.

I guess hope spring eternal for the

Guessing won't get you far.

Too bad you can't admit the same of your beliefs.

Starting with my preference for a steady state model...a man tied to mainstream and totally accepting of scientism ..what has my view got to do with chemistry and life?

Maybe you really don't know this, but science can't "prove" anything. Proof only exists in axiomatic systems of logic, like mathematics. So proof cannot be found by evidence and testing. It can only derive from logic.

Wow I never knew that, you sure are a poster boy for scientism. But science can show us the truth right?

But as I've repeatedly told you, those don't exist for abiogenesis.

I bet you just don't understand the matter enough to make an informed judgement.

the free will

Yes the precious free will thing... when did the free will concept get invented...following it's development is interesting..as is the philosophical arguement surrounding it...and the funny thing is some people actually believe it or at least hold it as a truth.

Those without a thing are often obsessed with it, and feel that some action or external validation is required for self-esteem.

Yes wise words gained from personal experience no doubt.

The "if I just do that or be this, I will feel better about myself" mentality.

Curious self talk..I don't think folk with low self esteem realise it...I wonder about you..sometimes I think you have low self esteem and other times I think you are full of yourself, sometimes I think you are ok and other times that you are a dingbat...but I like the times when I see something of who you are or rather when I catch a glimpse of something decent.

It's a false self-esteem.

There is no such thing if you think about it.

Everything works and I want for nothing, but without trying or worrying about it. People often mistake niceness for what simply appeases them. Integrity means the right thing is not always the nice thing.

Same same...today you are different..you are actually being nice..now yesterday you really were something else..anyways you are not only being nice but making sense with some of the things you are saying. I like it.

have I offended you

Not at all...my references are to your attempts and how your attempts hint at an apparent but unrequired bitterness...It does Not worry me...and true I probably do the same, but differently.

sensitivities so fragile?

Absolutely can't you see how fragile I am.. it takes so little to upset me..you should be more caring.

Care to compare my offense to your recent one

I knew it, I dealt you a good hand you played it so move on..or do I need to appologise as a preamble to all our discussions in the future...lucky I appologised as I expect I would get worse...but you see there is a difference and you know it..I made a mistake and I apologised moreover there was no malice other than my dislike for the folk who hold that flag and yearn for a past that had them where their white supremist vission of themselves would see them. And you seem to make insults not by mistake but with a clear intention to hurt...and you could not appologise even if you were capable of the compassion that would enable you to realise that you really could have hurt someone's feelings more than you intended.

That's the difference between you and me.

You really don't hurt my feelings but it's not for the want of you trying...and it has the opposite effect for me..the fact that you are so insulting just makes me feel I am better than you at behaving in an acceptable manner.

Given the background I shared with you you must know your call was wrong and yet you jumped on the opportunity, I don't like it, but I guess if the roles were reverse I would have given you some stick...so it's more that I am angry with myself giving you such an easy chance to rub my face in the dirt.

Alex

 

[Vociferous]

No I dont see anything in common at all.

And really I don't need to wait as I know the truth now.

Did you see that link where now there is a prize of ten million pounds, which is not that much money really these days, which you will be able to claim as scientists desperate attempt to make something happen no doubt...but hopefully the honor of winning may drive someone to go for it.

That's okay. I doubt they see anything in common with you either.

Way to embrace your faith. Making proclamations of "truth", not fact.

Yeah, "desperate attempt".

And even though modern science says none of those are possible, are you waiting for those too?

Is that one of them logical fallacies? If it is does that make you a hypocrite.

Um, that's a question. See the questions mark? Even if rhetorical, which it's not, rhetorical questions are not fallacies.

I guess hope spring eternal for the faithful.

Guessing won't get you far.

I don't need hope. I'm not the one waiting for something.

Wow I never knew that, you sure are a poster boy for scientism. But science can show us the truth right?

Wrong again. Proof derives from axiomatic logic, facts (which science deals in) derive from evidence, and truth derives from reason, logic, revelation, epiphany, etc..

There is no such thing if you think about it.

Only if you belief overcompensating is genuine self-worth.

Same same...today you are different..you are actually being nice..now yesterday you really were something else..anyways you are not only being nice but making sense with some of the things you are saying. I like it.

You like what you agree with. Niceness mistaken for what appeases you.

Care to compare my offense to your recent one

I knew it, I dealt you a good hand you played it so move on..or do I need to appologise as a preamble to all our discussions in the future...lucky I appologised as I expect I would get worse...but you see there is a difference and you know it..I made a mistake and I apologised moreover there was no malice other than my dislike for the folk who hold that flag and yearn for a past that had them where their white supremist vission of themselves would see them. And you seem to make insults not by mistake but with a clear intention to hurt...and you could not appologise even if you were capable of the compassion that would enable you to realise that you really could have hurt someone's feelings more than you intended.

You'll note, I didn't actually mention anything specific. You don't need to do a thing about the past except remember that you shouldn't accuse others of what you may feel you've been wrongly accused of, like implying others are "being offensive".

Wait, I thought you just said you weren't offended? But...you want an apology? Something doesn't add up there.
And don't pretend that you don't try to give as good as you get. All your jabs at the beliefs of others are not nice, and you're the one instigating that.

That's the difference between you and me.

You really don't hurt my feelings but it's not for the want of you trying...and it has the opposite effect for me..the fact that you are so insulting just makes me feel I am better than you at behaving in an acceptable manner.

It's odd that you think hurting your feelings is my intent. Personally, I'd rather feelings be left out of it. But it's telling that you do have enough of an emotional investment that you take it as intentionally hurtful, when the thought never crossed my mind. Sparring ideas shouldn't really require engaging emotion.

 

[paddoboy]

Way to embrace your faith. Making proclamations of "truth", not fact.

We are all born in the belly of stars. Fact: The theory of evolution is fact: Abiogenesis is the only scientific answer,and science the only reliable discipline we have to understand, describe, predict the universe both in the past and into the future and the evolution of life via chemistry.

 

[Michael 345]

How are you going?

Dumbist liked I Iggyed him

He used up his Number 3 when no reply to my request

Please provide, at your leisure a

• religion theory along with
• how it was tested and
• results found and also any
• religion models
• what they modeled and what
• results came from the models and
• was said model followed up with full scale example

So no need keep on looking at rubbish posted

Still in Bali with good company

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Even if rhetorical, which it's not, rhetorical questions are not fallacies.

OK , so you deny that you are a hypocrite.

I don't need hope.

So we can call you hopeless.

Proof derives from axiomatic logic, facts (which science deals in) derive from evidence, and truth derives from reason, logic, revelation, epiphany, etc..

...mmm revelation, epiphany...things are going downhill so you choose etc.. I guess I will never know the rest.

Only if you belief overcompensating is genuine self-worth.

Wrong try again.

You like what you agree with.

Profound.

Niceness mistaken for what appeases you.

I would think niceness is somewhat objective..but you don't think so.

like implying others are "being offensive".

You see nothing in " pull your head out of your arse" offensive...you must drink at a ruff bar.

Wait, I thought you just said you weren't offended?

Now follow the bouncing ball...you can say something that is offensive that does not offend me.

But...you want an apology?

Why not? You tried to be offensive that is the point...

Something doesn't add up there.

Well now it does.

And don't pretend that you don't try to give as good as you get

I won't pretend and I don't pretend as I do not wish to be labeled a hypocrite.

All your jabs at the beliefs of others are not nice, and you're the one instigating that.

Jabs? I would call them full commitment swings. I though no one could be less subtle than me I am going for a knock out or submission.... But you are correct it is not nice so I will abandon all personal responsibility and say that the devil made me do it... and how can you say that coming here and taking jabs at my scientism and belief in chemistry generating life by chance in a puddle of desolved building blocks of life.

It's odd that you think hurting your feelings is my intent.

You know me over sensitive...so it's all good? I can leave my head where I like? OK.

Personally, I'd rather feelings be left out of it.

Yes everyone can see that.

when the thought never crossed my mind.

I should never have doubted you..please forgive me.

Sparring ideas shouldn't really require engaging emotion.

But I love it.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

So no need keep on looking at rubbish posted

Yeh but I appreciate having someone speak their mind but you being where you are and with nice people there is no need of the trash...but ones mans trash etc.

But he is my best friend now that's why we accept each other's faults.

Still there eh. How about I threaten to kill you for leftist views and you can claim political asylum... are you happy staying or do you need to get back?
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

We need to have a beer Alex! I'm still into Fosters though, or VB...stuff this new age imported crap that my Son is drinking Ah So or some bloody Japanese excuse for beer!
What are you drinking in Bali Mick?

 

[Vociferous]

So we can call you hopeless.

Not needing hope is pretty far from despair.

I would think niceness is somewhat objective..but you don't think so.

No, a masochist may think it's nice to be whipped.

You see nothing in " pull your head out of your arse" offensive...you must drink at a ruff bar.

Sorry, didn't know I was talking to a puritan. That's a figure of speech for when you think someone is being especially obtuse.

Why not? You tried to be offensive that is the point...

I didn't try to be. But I am sorry if you took it as such.

Jabs? I would call them full commitment swings. I though no one could be less subtle than me I am going for a knock out or submission.... But you are correct it is not nice so I will abandon all personal responsibility and say that the devil made me do it... and how can you say that coming here and taking jabs at my scientism and belief in chemistry generating life by chance in a puddle of desolved building blocks of life.

Again, you instigated this. And since you admit to be intentionally "not nice", I rescind my apology. You got what you started.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I'm still into Fosters though, or VB

I am pretty fussy..if I can't buy it at Dan Murphy's I won't drink it..but I like scotch as well, and Ozzo Vodka Snaps only the plain, peach and butterscotch...and I do like that heated Japanese rice wine and what is that stuff that sounds like silvertitts?
Don't like brandy or sherry as they remind me of hospital and blood.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

Yeh but I appreciate having someone speak their mind but you being where you are and with nice people there is no need of the trash...but ones mans trash etc.

But he is my best friend now that's why we accept each other's faults.

Still there eh. How about I threaten to kill you for leftist views and you can claim political asylum... are you happy staying or do you need to get back?
Alex

The way the left is now please kill me. Or at least push me back to the middle

Happy with company sure, bored with nothing to do because bars, nightclubs closed and tourists attractions shut down

Need to get back in the mow the lawn sense, and pay a few (not to drastic) bills

What are you drinking in Bali Mick?

Coffee (made by trusted assistant) soft drink

If nightclub Bintang or lemon flavour version Radler

 

[dumbest man on earth]

Dumbist liked I Iggyed him

He used up his Number 3 when no reply to my request

Please provide, at your leisure a

• religion theory along with
• how it was tested and
• results found and also any
• religion models
• what they modeled and what
• results came from the models and
• was said model followed up with full scale example

So no need keep on looking at rubbish posted

Still in Bali with good company

Meh...Michael 345, the puerile, overt Trolling/Sealioning was crystal clear from the start.
Hence the "..."

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Not needing hope is pretty far from despair.

In your experience how far?

No, a masochist may think it's nice to be whipped.

Do you think so? OK I guess you were not offensive now that you put it that way?????

That's a figure of speech for when you think someone is being especially obtuse.

And especially for me...how nice.

I am sorry if you took it as such.

Thank you...look all jokes aside..I do like to stir you up but when I think you are really trying to insult me I do worry that I have really upset you..I really don't want to do that..do you see what I mean..even though I may disagree with you I really don't wish to upset you to the degree that all you can bring is insult...you really are better than that..and I sincerely believe that of you..You are smarter than me and honestly you could beat me in an arguement if I was t so darn clever.

you instigated this

Point out where I have upset you and I will appologise ..I know I am sometimes over the top but not to proud to say I am sorry..and mean it..
You probably don't like my views on invented gods and my ruff manners but let's fix it all up...

I rescind my apology

Wow build me up and cut me down..you set that up...but I will always remember those words from you...I am sorry..hang on that was not what I would call an apology...I am sorry you took it that way...you must be new at it I guess...probably never done it before, if so fair first try...next time try..I am sorry for causing any offence I sincerely mean that and I beg you for forgiveness not that I deserve it but know your wonderful self will grant it.

You got what you started.

Now it's my fault..you can not expect to get any where by blaming others now can you.

How's the weather where you are? It's raining here so not going anywhere ..put my doctors appointment off so I could just talk to you and enjoy your wisdom but must go all batteries are going flat.

Alex

 

[paddoboy]

Wow build me up and cut me down..you set that up...but I will always remember those words from you...I am sorry..

Slow down a bit Alex, you just caused my monitor screen to be covered in coffee!

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Slow down a bit Alex, you just caused my monitor screen to be covered in coffee!

Here is something serious..there are parts one and three but this one hints that we are closer than nay sayers would hope.

Part one was excellent I have yet to watch part three but it does make you realise there are two sides..one informed in particular the guy presenting the talk and others obviously uninformed who don't realise how close we are to working everything out.

And my bet is the prize has been announced because it is expected there will be a payout in the reasonably near future...you know how mainstream feathers it's own nest ..they must near have it and are ready to payout their mates....ask any creationist they will agree I am right on the payout machinery but be forced to realise abiogenesis is ready to take more territory. That comes from my press secretary Miss Information.

I watched this critic of a chap revieving an anti biogenisis video by some Christian.. I will try and find it for you..what a liar..you must see it...as someone called it in the comments..another member of the lieing for Jesus brigade...and LG will like it not being a Christian.. but he won't like the video I linked ..if he watches them which he won't...he will be hard pressed finding fault put it that way. V the LG.
I wonder in the future if kids will be able to buy kits and make their own living dolls and pets...mmm the possibilities..I would make a bird big enough that I could fly on all around the place.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Here we go...don't drink coffee when you watch this..this guy is so stupid you will get a few moments I bet.

Alex

 

[(Q)]

Now, science does provide a degree of confidence in fact supported by evidence. But as I've repeatedly told you, those don't exist for abiogenesis.

It's cute how the non-scientist decides what is and what isn't science.

I'm supremely confident in my own personal experiences.

That's usually why and where people fail in their critical thinking process.

 

[paddoboy]

as someone called it in the comments..another member of the lieing for Jesus brigade...

Havn't watched the video yet Alex, will do so later today.
'The lying by many is typical in this day and age with religion being in the spotlight so to speak and critiqued logically by science, which has obviously shown the hypocrisy and flaws.
The whole myth of religion and creationism are being exposed and it and its proponents have their arses against the wall, fighting a continuing losing fight.
The whole thing from my perspective, is that I have plenty of religious friends [even a wife ] and most are good people, who have learned to tolerate others of different or no faith. It gives them comfort and while the reason for that comfort maybe unscientific and based on myth, if they chose to accept that, it's OK with me.
The problem exists of course with the lies portrayed by our online crusaders on this forum and their derision of science, and of course the lying arseholes that preach fire and brimstone, most making money out of the gullible that swallow their lies, and the total hypocritical lies and actions they indulge in themselves. Who could forget that fool [I have already forgotten his name ] that was an infamous inline money making preacher of fire and brimstone, who was found out to be screwing someone else Mrs, and obviously to maintain the money to keep rolling in from the gullible masses, then made a tearful apology with much bawling on public television...quite a few years ago, but it had me laughing my arse off. Here he was a supposed grown man, eyes to the sky, blubbering and asking for divine forgiveness, all the while ringing his hands in despair....It was a real Oscar winning performance, worthy of any in Hollywood. Our latest hypocritical preacher here, isn't too far behind him in the acting department.

 

[davewhite04]

In another thread, I have been collecting definitions of God from both theists and atheists.

I have noticed that some of the definitions that theists have given have essentially defined God as "whatever it was that caused the universe to begin". While it is debatable as to whether the universe needs a cause in the first place - something I don't want to discuss in the current thread - this raises a separate question for me.

This version of God, as defined, doesn't appear to describe the God of the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) very well at all. It is a sort of abstract god, a god removed from human concerns. This god, as defined, doesn't have any obvious human-like attributes. It could be just about anything - an abstract force or even a tinkering alien computer programmer creating a virtual world on a whim.

If we read the bible, say, then we are told that God created human beings in his own image. But that doesn't sound much like this abstract whatever-it-may-be that is needed to start the universe going.

Do you believe that God made us in his image? If so, what does that mean? How is your God like a human being? What attributes of God are reflected in us? Does this God relate to the abstracted kind of God we tend to hear about from the kinds of theists who are careful to make sure that their God, as they define it, is always a God of the Gaps, used to fill in only what we don't know from science, but otherwise compatible with its findings?

I think you fail to realise how powerful God is, from the Abrahamic. He is a man, but He can do anything, including creating a heaven within this universe or another. He created the universe and has to be from somewhere outside of the universe. Seems like He chose to live not only in this universe, but also on this planet.

That is my explanation.

Another take:

Two dragon(More powerful than God) resting on a rock, friends, deep dark blue and red. Dozens of dragons continually battling, while these two dragons chill out. The blue dragon noticed this little black like a massive(but still tiny) ink ball moving like a slug and falling into a tiny hole in the rock, the blue one sees it and follows it in(it can shrink) and end ups in this universe, the black thing created this universe.