10th Int. Conf. on Cold Fusion

Mr. Chips

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The tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion was held in Cambridge, Massachusets this last August. Lots of information from the conference is available at the following site including submitted papers in pdf format at the bottom of the page:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/iccf10/iccf10.htm

For a bit of the history of how CF has been actively suppressed, see the other thread in this forum on the Review of the film "Heavy Watergate." Maybe you can use this link http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30014
 
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Yup. After all of the altered data, the propaganda, the threats, denied publications and grants to keep it suppressed, researchers from all over the world still claim that they have witnessed it in their own labs. Did you read and look at the pictures on that main site of the Portland, Oregon high school students who are actually doing it? Here's a direct link to a photo http://www.lenr-canr.org/images/Experimentsetup.jpg I think it should be captioned "High school students attack military industrial complex!" A high resolution version is available here http://www.lenr-canr.org/images/Experimentsetuplarge.jpg Looks like deli cole slaw containers are holding the cells (lol - Safeway to the rescue!)

Edited to add high school students' demonstration photo links.
 
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Cold fusion is only considered possible by those who have no concept of nuclear physics, or those who love to believe in conspiracy theories and/or pseudo science. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the pseudo science forum.

Nuclei must be in close contact to fuse. The electromagnetic repulsion of like charged nuclei is an incredible force at atomic distances. It is an inverse square law. This repulsive force is the reason that nuclei with more than one proton require neutrons for stability.

Note that temperature is a measure of particle speed, which is why it is necessary for fusion to occur. Very high velocities in a very dense medium are required to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion. That is why it only occurs naturally in the interior of stars, where gravity creates huge pressures/densities and temperatures in the millions of degrees.

I do not know enough about nuclear physics to be aware of any obstacles to fusion other than electromagnetic repulsion, but that repulsion is enough to prevent cold fusion.

The only possibility I can image for cold fusion is some quantum tunneling effect. This is a probabilistic phenomenon with an almost zero probability for a barrier as formidable as that separating atomic nuclei. At best tunneling would result in one fusion per million particles every century or so.

While the hydrogen bomb and stellar processes confirm high temperature fusion phenomenon, I have often wondered if our current technology is sufficient to make it a practical source of energy. It very well might be that high temperature fusion is not feasible enough at this time to warrant the huge amounts of money and resources expended to date. This is a separate issue and a red herring in any consideration of the possibility of cold fusion.
 
That is why it only occurs naturally in the interior of stars, where gravity creates huge pressures/densities and temperatures in the millions of degrees.


So is it certain that such temp/pressures cannot be created cheaply by man?
 
Gee, I just put hot fusion into the pseudoscience area http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30161

Arthur C. Clarke has stated that Fleischman and Pons are likely to be the first researchers to receive both the ignobel and the Nobel prizes.

You are telling me, Dinosaur, that if the evidence does not match the theory the evidence must be wrong. The evidence is apparently much and repeated often and widely. In the past, luckily, some have considered that such eventually means our theories need to be looked at more closely and revised rather than just being adhered to dogmatically no matter how much evidence accumulates in opposition to the theory. See if you can rent that video I refer to in the other thread. Amazing stuff. I must admit, I was totally skeptical at first myself but I will not remain so when the data is both overwhelming and convincing.

Conspiracy theories? Well, which conspiracy is more likely? Hundreds if not thousands of credentialed researchers around the globe are faking their experimental results or maybe entrenched special interests are seeking to protect their virtual control of society? Scratch beneath the surface. Somebody is definitely trying to mislead someone else. Follow the money.
 
Cold fusion is looked on with considerable skepticism by most scientists, especially following the initial debarcle of Pons and Fleishman's announcement.

I don't believe it has been actively suppressed. There are, in fact, specialist journals devoted to research in the field.

There is some legitimate work being carried out, but clearly no convincing results. If there had been, we'd know about them.
 
That altering of the experimental data to cover up actual confirmation of F & P's claims by MIT physicists was definitely an active attempt to stifle the research. The fradulent claims of spiking the experimental results at Texas A & M certainly wasn't without malice. How come the panel of Bush senior claimed there was nothing to it and then some of the members expressed interest quietly and privately to pursue research in the field? How come researchers are told that if their experiments support F & P's results they would be fired from their research positions?

It has been actively and ardently suppressed.

Yes, I understand that there is at least one journal and another in the plans to pursue cold fusion or LENR specifically.

Did you know that you could buy kits in the '60s to build yourself a hybrid car? How come they are only now becoming available to the public as a commercial product? Has Ford, with its largest gas guzzling SUV on the market dropped their stated plans to provide a hybrid SUV to the public? How come we are still using fossil fuels? I don't buy the idea that if it is good we'll hear about it.
 
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Originally posted by James R

I don't believe it has been actively suppressed. There are, in fact, specialist journals devoted to research in the field.

i m not so sure... i read this on spr a while back:
"Cold Fusion politics. Unusually, the administrators of the physics
archive at arXiv.org rapidly deleted a paper successfully deposited in
the archive, perhaps as a reflex response to the fact that the paper
concerned reviewed research in cold fusion. As a service to the
scientific community, this 37-page review by Edmund Storms is being made
available on this web site. It is suggested that serious scientific
comments on the review, by those registered for depositing papers in the
archive, be deposited in the cond-mat section, with crosslinking to
nucl-ex and a link to the original review (here). However, there can be
no guarantee that such contributions will not be deleted from the
archive as was the review itself.
[Note: it is not the intention to include poor research on these web
pages. If anyone feels there are problems with the review concerned
which are not cleared up through correspondence with the author, would
they please let me know at the email address below (no complaints
received so far at June 11, 2002)] "
posted by A. Jadczyk, quote due to Brian Josephson, regarding a paper deleted from the arxiv which you can find here
 
People do love conspiracy theories. 40-50 years ago a story started about a carburetor which enabled an otherwise standard car to get 100 miles per gallon of gas. It was alleged to have been suppressed by the oil industry. Of course, the inventor who developed it in his basement workshop took it to Standard Oil or Shell instead of trying to sell it to GM, Ford, or Chrysler. I guess inventors do not know much about marketing. Perhaps he went to GM first and was told they were not interested, and they suggested he go to Standard Oil. That story was told on and off until about 20-30 years ago. Now we have a story about a hybrid car which could have been commercially available 40 years ago.

Somebody posted a suggestion that we should follow the money, implying that there is money to be made by suppressing Cold Fusion and advancing the cause of fusion based on hydrogen bomb & magnetic containment fusion.

You might think about how a hack scientist can make money. He cannot compete with the intellectual giants like Hawking, Feynman, Penrose, et cetera. He has a fair chance of conning some government bureaucrat or academic administrator into financing pseudo science. Now that governments and universities are the major source of research money, there is a good chance of bamboozling or paying kickbacks to get research funds for nonsense, but this is not the same as suppressing valid science. This has been going on since Rhine came up with a department of parapsychology at Duke in about 1930. I suspect that Rhine might have been honest, but misguided. Those who followed him are probably charlatans.

So called cold fusion is a joke. If it worked, over 70 years of quantum and nuclear physics would have to be incredibly wrong. Many nuclear and quantum processes would not function at all or would not function as it is known that they do.

There is an outside chance that the cold fusion experiments are evidence of some entirely unknown source of small amounts of energy (I really doubt this, but it is just barely possible). They cannot be evidence of nuclear fusion.

Do you believers really think that valid scientific knowledge can be suppressed? Do you think the intellectual giants of nuclear & quantum physics are idiots?

Dictatorships have goofy policies counter to good science, but democracies only have bureaucratic red tape and the resources to finance nonsense. They are able to suppress valid science for a few years when it involves potential war related technology, but cannot suppress it for 10 or more years. Hitler suppressed what he called Jew Physics, which might have prevented the Nazis from developing nuclear weapons before we did. Stalin suppressed genetic science in favor of Lemarkian (? spelling) theories, which were more compatible with communistic dogma. Western democracies do not have this type of power.

BTW: Our government was not able to completely suppress knowledge of nuclear weapons technology during WW2. Arthur C. Clark, Asimov, or some other SciFi author wrote a novel with a description of a fission bomb which had a good estimate of the critical mass for U235. The FBI or some other agency thought there was a leak from the Manhattan project and investigated. The author pointed out that his information was readily available from articles published prior to WW2.

The theoretical possibility of a fission or fusion bomb was known before Hiroshima/Nagasaki to bright teenagers with a knowledge of physics. Valid science just does not get suppressed. Bright people learn about the theory (if not the technology) before the government has a chance to suppress it. Once the genii gets out of the bottle, he does not get put back.
 
dinosaur-

yeah, you re probably right. cold fusion is a load of crap. but it seems quite plausible to me that any research that is even remotely related to cold fusion, even if it is completely valid, could get surpressed by scientists unwilling to risk the stigma associated with crackpot science. doesn t mean there is a conspiracy, really...
 
Dinosaur,

I am certainly not vouching for CF but only want to comment on your reliance on conventional fusion ndt lawson criteria.

Don't forget "Muon Catalyzed Fusion", It likes to occur around 1,500F - 2,500F.

Some of these processes might be previously unrealized methods of overcoming the repulsive forces.
 
Dinosaur: “People do love conspiracy theories.”

This is a totally specious argument. If you are claiming that those who find the continued and growing reports of repeated and repeatable evidence of cold fusion, the great number of well credentialed researchers who attest to observing this phenomenon in their own laboratories, are only conspiracy theorists then you are saying that these individuals are conspiring to defraud the scientific community and the public. Appears that your stance requires more conspiring tricksters than the couple of handful of people in the right place that were required to get the ball rolling on suppressing the cold fusion claims. Once the ball is rolling all you need are sheep to keep it going. In short, you are the conspiracy nut here.

Dinosaur “40-50 years ago a story started about a carburetor which enabled an otherwise standard car to get 100 miles per gallon of gas. It was alleged to have been suppressed by the oil industry. Of course, the inventor who developed it in his basement workshop took it to Standard Oil or Shell instead of trying to sell it to GM, Ford, or Chrysler. I guess inventors do not know much about marketing. Perhaps he went to GM first and was told they were not interested, and they suggested he go to Standard Oil.”

You are speaking oranges to apples. I see on the web there is much fodder to defend this red herring straw man argument of yours. In my eyes if you must change the subject to something you can argue than you just look like a fool, Dino.

Dinosaur: “Somebody posted a suggestion that we should follow the money, implying that there is money to be made by suppressing Cold Fusion and advancing the cause of fusion based on hydrogen bomb & magnetic containment fusion.”

“Somebody” Dino? Come on. When you got a fact right there in front of you, why not use it? Are you just seeking to intimidate? If you can’t dig for the facts even when they are right there in front of you how can I begin to trust anything you say? 246.9 million dollars for fiscal year 2003 according to the article here: http://www.aip.org/enews/fyi/2003/040.html

Dinosaur: “You might think about how a hack scientist can make money. He cannot compete with the intellectual giants like Hawking, Feynman, Penrose, et cetera. He has a fair chance of conning some government bureaucrat or academic administrator into financing pseudo science.”

There you go with your conspiracy theories and yet you infer that your perspective is not fraught with conspiracy theory and only those who do not “believe” as you? Who are these “hack scientists?” I count at least one hundred and nine on this page alone, http://www.lenr-canr.org/LibFrame1.html Seems to be a lot of hard earned credentials amongst them. These universities and schools and government institutions that have credentialed them and then go about supporting their research must be awful easy to conspire against according to your theory. If that is the case, then why not consider that the conspiracy is more of a top down affair, the fools within some of these institutions that you find so gullible, why not consider the possibility that some of them conspire against cold fusion? You certainly seem to have a poor opinion of their ability to judge meritorious efforts.

Dinosaur: “If it worked, over 70 years of quantum and nuclear physics would have to be incredibly wrong. Many nuclear and quantum processes would not function at all or would not function as it is known that they do.”

Again you are saying that if the evidence does not fit the theory then it must be “a joke.” Where is the scientific method to your madness? The evidence keeps piling up and only such staunch dogmatic denial as yours will keep those current mainstream theories uncorrected.

Dinosaur: “Do you believers really think that valid scientific knowledge can be suppressed? Do you think the intellectual giants of nuclear & quantum physics are idiots?”

Who are the believers you refer to here? Why don’t you use my handle? Has anyone else here expressed being a “believer?” That second sentence is again, red herring, straw man. Have you stopped beating your wife? (Please moderator and anyone else, realize that I’m not claiming that Dinosaur beats his wife only that this claiming that a person who considers people ill informed must consider them as idiots is just as bizarre as the “beating your wife” spin.)

Dinosaur: “Dictatorships have goofy policies counter to good science, but democracies only have bureaucratic red tape and the resources to finance nonsense.” … “Western democracies do not have this type of power.”

Oh, I see. Your beliefs are showing. Common belief to consider one’s own country, with the largest per capita incarceration rate on the planet, as a democracy. You are obviously quite naïve but then, one should expect to see such in an open forum. These forums cater to the ill informed. There is very little peer matching going on in these things. Moderators have repeatedly not enjoyed my opinion that online forums are basically anarchistic in nature. Who wants to believe they have invested a great deal of time and energy into something that is basically dysfunctional?

Dinosaur: “Arthur C. Clark, Asimov, or some other SciFi author wrote a novel with a description of a fission bomb which had a good estimate of the critical mass for U235”

Now don’t go and invoke Arthur C. Clarke as knowledgeable, he endorses cold fusion. That does not help your heart felt cause.

Dinosaur: “Valid science just does not get suppressed.”

Pretty extreme statement. I wonder why I should bother to try to reason with someone who must make categorically false statements. Oh, well, any one who is reading this, do your own research. Don’t trust me. Don’t trust Dinosaur. Don’t trust the powers that be. I hope I have given you all some links to investigate on your own. Probably the best stance is to not take a firm stance, keep an open mind.

Or not.
 
Hey. Does anybody mind if I ocassionally post something I've found concerning cold fusion here?

November 2002 University of Utah public radio station KUER interview with Charles Beaudette, author of Excess Heat, and Michael McKubre PhD of the Stanford Research Institute (Menlo Park, Calif.) http://audio.kuer.org:8000/file/rw112702.mp3 12 mb, 52 minutes
 
The following was all I originally intended to say on this subject.
  • Cold fusion is still being considered feasible?? Incredible!!
I wanted to be notified when others posted so I could follow the discussion. I am now sorry that I expressed an opinion.

Please note that I do not consider those actively experimenting with cold fusion to be conspiracy theory believers. It is those who post remarks like the following and those who agree with such remarks.
  • For a bit of the history of how CF has been actively suppressed, see the other thread in this forum on the Review of the film "Heavy Watergate

    Yup. After all of the altered data, the propaganda, the threats, denied publications and grants to keep it suppressed, researchers from all over the world still claim that they have witnessed it in their own labs.

    Scratch beneath the surface. Somebody is definitely trying to mislead someone else. Follow the money.

    How come researchers are told that if their experiments support F & P's results they would be fired from their research positions?

    It has been actively and ardently suppressed.
The above suggest to me a belief in a conspiracy to suppress further cold fusion research.

From here on, I will be content to be an observer of posts made by others.

Those who believe that the cold fusion experiments indicate nuclear fusion have so little knowledge of nuclear physics that it is a waste of time to argue with them.

As posted previously, there is some chance that the so called cold fusion experiments are finding evidence of some currently unknown energy producing effect. There is no chance that the energy (if any) is due to the fusion of atomic nuclei.
 
I really don't mind if you choose to sit this one out. I think that is probably a good idea as you seem to put your foot in your mouth a lot.

For example:

Dinosaur: "Those who believe that the cold fusion experiments indicate nuclear fusion have so little knowledge of nuclear physics that it is a waste of time to argue with them."

I took about five minutes to look through the URLs I placed at the end of the review I did on that "Heavy Watergate" film I link to in the first post of this thread and pulled these names as credentialed physicists who have actually claimed seeing evidence of cold fusion. I guess these are a few of the folks that you consider to have "so little knowledge of nuclear physics."

Professor G. H. Miley
Fusion Studies Lab
University of Illinois
received the Edward Teller medal for innovative research in hot fusion

Professor John Dash
Physics dept.
Portland State University

Dr. Raj K Gupta
Physics dept.
Panjab University
Chandigarh, India

Professor Matti Pitkänen
Dept. Of Physics
University of Helsinki, Finland

There's more but these are the ones who came up quickly as being known for their physics acumen. Just a bunch of ignoramuses in your eyes.
 
This reminds me of the whole global warming brouhaha. Both sides wave around lists of their supporters, debating over who has what degrees and why. But the simple fact remains that cold fusion has produced little definite and convincing evidence over the past decade. And Mr Chips, please dont throw around the conspiracy accusations so much. it makes you look stupid.
 
I can document each and every one of those claims and you can see the very strong evidence that the situation is just as I've stated here if you are willing to go about digging a little to look at my stated sources. I've cited my sources here. You and this other extreme naysayer, Dinosaur, haven't.

Guthrie, according to the IQ tests I've had I am far from stupid but perhaps you meant ignorant or crazy. I find some very strong evidence that a large portion of the population is psychotic, believing they do know reality, even if they are just echoing the main stream media. What is alarming is how gulible the masses are and just how extensive the psychosis seems to be.

There is a cyclic feedback phenomenon that is getting shorter as the millenia go by: human social experiments become unwieldy ever quicker with a large portion of their constituents believing the self-serving lies and propaganda of their so-called rulers who have been coddled and living in ivory towers too long to truly know what is good for all. Ever more unwise policy gets followed until the system exceeds its carrying capacity, leads to the suffering or dissatisfaction of many as the commons are ever more mismanaged. It is then that the experiments are curtailed too often with violence and new ones started.

Violence is the unintelligent application of force. Rather than just parroting the company line, I suggest you take the time to do a little digging. We could do with a bit less violence in this world. A strict and simple definition of psychosis is being out of touch with reality. That is quite common. We all have it to varying degrees. What creates danger is when it is enforced and spread amongst others. Just be a dizzy tizzy homo sap spinning out an entropic wake of destruction and ignorance while buying and consuming and discarding with no care for efficiency or truth; there is a lot of pressure to go about being virtually brain dead.

Things are not as they seem on the surface and it isn't all peaches and cream as the so-called rulers would have us believe.

BTW, there is very little going back and forth here as you claim. I seem to be the only one willing to post my sources and list experts who testify as to their findings. Yup, forums cater to the ill informed. I truly believe that. A thread such as this will bring out the worst.

Edited for spelling correction and to add last couple of sentences.
 
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