A Christmas Carol

And where is Purgatory mentioned? I am quite sceptical that this would have appeared in Dickens' story. I certainly don't remember any such reference.
In the 2019 take, Purgatory was the place where Marley waited in chains for events to unfold, talking with the ghosts around a bonfire in the middle of an evergreen forest. All the evergreens were festooned with ornaments.
 
In the 2019 take, Purgatory was the place where Marley waited in chains for events to unfold, talking with the ghosts around a bonfire in the middle of an evergreen forest. All the evergreens were festooned with ornaments.
Thanks, I see. This looks indeed like taking a Catholic liberty with a Victorian Anglican author. To me, this clashes badly with the era and milieu of the story - the sort of error that someone from another culture, or someone who does not care, would make.
 
Thanks, I see. This looks indeed like taking a Catholic liberty with a Victorian Anglican author. To me, this clashes badly with the era and milieu of the story - the sort of error that someone from another culture, or someone who does not care, would make.

This adaptation is a bit riskier and very dark. I like that it was dark because it shows that anyone can choose to change, despite how horrific their childhood may have been. In the end, the future isn’t lost - we can choose to do better than we were the day before.

There have been positive and negative reviews over this movie; some are raving over it and some dislike the dark turn it took. “Dickens is spinning in his grave!” stated one critic.

Guy Pearce’s portrayal of Scrooge is beyond reproach, though. His performance is captivating and the viewer easily gets swept away by that, allowing for much poetic license.
 
This adaptation is a bit riskier and very dark. I like that it was dark because it shows that anyone can choose to change, despite how horrific their childhood may have been. In the end, the future isn’t lost - we can choose to do better than we were the day before.

There have been positive and negative reviews over this movie; some are raving over it and some dislike the dark turn it took. “Dickens is spinning in his grave!” stated one critic.

Guy Pearce’s portrayal of Scrooge is beyond reproach, though. His performance is captivating and the viewer easily gets swept away by that, allowing for much poetic license.
It sounds as if I would hate it. :biggrin:
 
It sounds as if I would hate it. :biggrin:
Well, it’s been said by some critics, that this version depicts reading between the lines of Dickens’ original tale.

Haven’t you ever read between the lines, hmm? :smile:
 
Well, it’s been said by some critics, that this version depicts reading between the lines of Dickens’ original tale.

Haven’t you ever read between the lines, hmm? :smile:
Well of course I have. Reading between the lines is, or should be, an attempt to discern what the author may have consciously or subconsciously had in mind, or could plausibly have been influenced by. Only a fool or a charlatan "reads between the lines" what is clearly not there. There is a term for that: "making sh1t up" :wink:.

This nonsense about Scrooge being abused at a Catholic boarding school, and Marley's ghost being in Purgatory, looks like the work of someone who has no understanding of, or interest in portraying, how early Victorian England actually was, or how Dickens would have thought. I repeat: Catholicism was marginalised in society and considered suspect, there were no Catholic boarding schools, and Dickens had little time for Catholicism.

Paradoxically, what this invention may suggest - reading between the lines - is that the director of this production has a personal anti-Catholic axe to grind, for some reason. Hmm. :D

Have you read the History Today article, by the way?
 
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In truth, it wasn’t depicted as a Catholic boarding school - that is my interpretation. Because I do have a personal ax to grind with the RCC, but that is for another thread. :smile:

There honestly is no mention of Catholicism in the film, it’s understood that Christianity is the dominant faith of the time. But terms like penance, purgatory and works-based redemption are Catholic ideas, not Protestant.
 
In truth, it wasn’t depicted as a Catholic boarding school - that is my interpretation. Because I do have a personal ax to grind with the RCC, but that is for another thread. :smile:

There honestly is no mention of Catholicism in the film, it’s understood that Christianity is the dominant faith of the time. But terms like penance, purgatory and works-based redemption are Catholic ideas, not Protestant.
Oh, I see. That makes more sense now, then.

For me the interesting idea out of this discussion is whether the Tractarians and the Oxford movement influenced the Christianity of Dickens. Looking at the dates of these movements, and the date of publication of the story, it seems possible. Also, Dickens's strong zeal for social reform might well have found the concept of salvation through faith and good works an appealing idea - as it has been for millions over the last two thousand years. And, as the History Today paper explains, it seems the return of Catholic ideas and practice in the early c.19th was a factor in the rehabilitation of Christmas as a time for celebration, which is something that "A Christmas Carol" had a significant role in bringing to pass.

Thanks for the discussion, anyway.
 
Oh, I see. That makes more sense now, then.

For me the interesting idea out of this discussion is whether the Tractarians and the Oxford movement influenced the Christianity of Dickens. Looking at the dates of these movements, and the date of publication of the story, it seems possible. Also, Dickens's strong zeal for social reform might well have found the concept of salvation through faith and good works an appealing idea - as it has been for millions over the last two thousand years. And, as the History Today paper explains, it seems the return of Catholic ideas and practice in the early c.19th was a factor in the rehabilitation of Christmas as a time for celebration, which is something that "A Christmas Carol" had a significant role in bringing to pass.

Thanks for the discussion, anyway.
Much of what we read, is open for interpretation. I think the writers of this adaptation filled in a backstory that they thought would create a darker storyline, one which would have viewers feeling pity/compassion for Scrooge in a way they hadn’t before. I liked it because it emphasizes the idea that we should choose kindness towards others for we don’t know what battles they are internally fighting.
 
Just remembered

There is a Blackadder version of A Christmas Carol

Worth chasing up

:)
 
is arguing for the importance of good works towards earning salvation. I had never really thought of this. But then, it seems clear that Dickens, as a social reformer, believed very strongly in the moral value of good social works.
In the story Dickens ascribes the origin of good works to a prior salvation, and puts change of heart at the center of Scrooge's subsequent adoption of varied and not fully specified good ways of living.

Notice that the good "works" included - as a central and key component in the story - Scrooges genuine and humble acceptance of other people's charity, mercy, and forbearance toward himself.
 
In the story Dickens ascribes the origin of good works to a prior salvation, and puts change of heart at the center of Scrooge's subsequent adoption of varied and not fully specified good ways of living.

Notice that the good "works" included - as a central and key component in the story - Scrooges genuine and humble acceptance of other people's charity, mercy, and forbearance toward himself.
Good point. So the change of heart is the salvation and the good works follow.
 
I think Dickens believed in redemption in terms of correcting one’s past through repentance. But, in all honesty, Marley was dead and most likely in hell - with no hope of redemption (according to most Christian doctrine) The fact that he is in some kind of limbo state could indicate that Dickens rejected the idea of hell and made up his own ideas of the afterlife (despite self-identifying as a Christian, himself)
I don't think I'd read that much into it. I think Dickens would have been happy to use ghosts as a convenient plot device to tell a good story, regardless of his own beliefs about ghosts.

wegs said:
I liked it because it emphasizes the idea that we should choose kindness towards others for we don’t know what battles they are internally fighting.
I liked it because it suggests we should choose kindness towards others for if we don't we'll end up as lonely people who nobody wants to know. What goes around comes around.

And for your reason, too. :)
 
I don't think I'd read that much into it. I think Dickens would have been happy to use ghosts as a convenient plot device to tell a good story, regardless of his own beliefs about ghosts.


I liked it because it suggests we should choose kindness towards others for if we don't we'll end up as lonely people who nobody wants to know. What goes around comes around.

And for your reason, too. :)

Indeed, James. Happy new year, btw!
 
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