AI . China vs US

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by river, Mar 10, 2021.

  1. river

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    On Cnn on this past Sunday .

    Where will this lead ? Money into AI by China is going to be huge . The US should do the same .

    I just worry where this ends .
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Where do you think it will end or go?
     
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  5. river

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    To Total Technology Planet . Because it is faster . Not wiser . Just faster .

    And Mechanical .
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    wooden shoes?
     
  8. river

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    Not just wooden shoes , but by western survaillence as well .

    Control , to what end ?

    That is the question .
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  9. Dicart Registered Senior Member

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    AI is only some computational ability (main usage is to detect pattern in structurated informations set)
    Whats the point with this particular technology ?
    Doing things cheaper that some human could do without needing them to agree with the task ?
    Yes it is much easyer and cheaper now.

    If you want to do survey of population, you can automatise some tasks that only human could do some time ago (KGB etc) by recognizing face.
    Now, we can do this cheaper, faster and... without asking anybodys permission.

    Thats the point i think : With IA, you dont need to ask someone to agree with you survey.

    IA is not even necessary to recognize people in the streets.
    You could put a barcode on the forehead of everybody or some electronic chip in their hand.
    But with IA... you dont have to ask people if they agree to be recognized.
    It is a passive system.

    So IA is just a temporary way to identify everybody and i bet that soon everybody is accustomed with the global survey and have accepted it, they will be willing to have some other cheaper way to identify themselves, like electronic chips in their hand (that permit payment too, per example).
     
  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    whos money are you talking about ?

    where is that money currently ?

    easy to skim
    easy to cut out & steal

    not sure if you are on the same TV channel on this subject

    AI running responses as critical systems
    managing utilities
    monitoring financial transactions & data uploads, web site registrations
    data being moved online

    you are talking childrens hand held radios playing cowbows & indians & captain planet 1960s

    i think River is talking the real stuff.

    an AI running on a private server which has been given too much access for example
    its a little bit robot phobia
    but very real when you align greed and peoples desire to take over the world
    look at countrys where the military are taking over their political system
    imagine what they would be doing behind the scenes with AI taking all the private information & taking over all the networks & systems.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
  11. Dicart Registered Senior Member

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    Ok, then why saying specifically that the AI is a threat ?
    We suddenly understand that we can do much more with much more powerfull computers and new algorithmes then 20 years ago ?
    What about Fouriers analyses, big data analysis, or web and network services ?
    No concern with these techniques ?

    In my opinion, there is no problem with AI (no terminator in sight before many many years).
    Perhaps, there can be some economical problem with the countries who are not capable to give education to the workers as new working opportunities appear with the growing use of AI.

    I just know what AI is and what it can.
    AI is only capable of detecting pattern (informational pattern of course) in informations set (so usefull for big data analysing, like some other engineer techniques).
    If you think something else, so you are in my opinion (like many others) being abused by some illusion.
    There is no rational intelligence in AI... so it can "only" (thats sufficent) be used for data analysis "in a black box".
    The AI will not explain you why "he think something", using some language inference.
    If AI can be very powerfull with some games like Go, it is because it can understand the pattern hidden behind the game (we, can not do this so fast, we also have intuition, but think at lower speed, and very special poeple (Asperger per example) that can do like AI... are very few).
     
  12. river

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    Google uses A.I. alot . Surveillance Capitalism . google is in China .
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    this is obviously an emotional belief issue for you which sits inside your religion concepts.

    in theory you should be as up to date on general knowledge as i am
    however...

    wireless heart pump hacking
    AI car & truck & school buss driving hacking
    infrastructure oil gas electricity nuclear systems control hacking
    passenger plane flight controls & systems hacking
    stock market hacking


    public services hacking i.e taxi services like uber, GPS systems & telephone networks, election results public infection statistics indian(china/usa) farm produce prices, game-stop prices, gold prices retirement fund stocks and bonds prices. house prices, rental market rental valuation systems.
    credit rating systems.

    AI designed to drive up private health care stock prices & profits
    decides to hack & wipe out all patient data in public hospitals

    then what ?
    (let me guess, "not my problem so i don't care"?)


    those are the obvious big ticket items without me having to think about it.

    now place a learning AI set to leverage stock market prices into a public response process to create social media & market changes

    its suddenly world war 4
    driven by AI... and your sitting at home saying
    "no it wont ever happen because i don't like it".



    & google access Microsoft
    and Microsoft got pawned just a week ago which would give AI the opportunity to start moving real world things in private businesses
    company servers controlling systems etc

    its just dumb luck nothing was blown up ... yet

    instead of their head being in the game
    it looks like their head is up their ass

    & AI drives most of that ! ! !
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  14. Dicart Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, here you talk about some hacking, like there are (much more) plenty of hacking in the computational domain.
    Whats new with the AI then ?
    Perhaps now we can use some "special hacking" using the data itself to trick the AI.
    Per example, in visual recognition AI, it seem that we can use some images slightly modified (so human can not see this slightly modifications) recognized totaly wrong by the AI.
    So typical, you human see a stop sign and the AI see a cat.

    Concerning the computers (many, so you can not only hack one to make all the market collapse).
    We use them for many years now. And already there are side effects when all algorithms are fine tuned with the same values, making marketplace crash occur in some circumstance.
    The faster win...
    So again, whats new here with AI ?
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,475
    also
    deep fakes
    AI generated faces----leads to AI generated communication from boss to workers, worker to colleague, etc giving fake information and fake directions

    .......................................
    Long ago, I met the old host of the victory garden at a garden show.
    He sat for a bust---done with cameras, computers, and 3d printers....creepy---it really looked identical to the man.
    (and, I thought---the days of making money as a figurative sculpture were numbered.)
    Ok that was then
    Now, you can do much the same with AI by taking content from the internet.
     
  16. Dicart Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, deepfakes are very funny (actualy if ou pay attention you can do the distinction between the originals and the fakes, and i believe and you are right, they could be more efficient when the programms become more powerfull).

    Yes and a human hacker using social ingeneering could also do that.
    The real problem is that most people can be tricked with minimal effort, not that some AI can do almost perfect tricking.
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    more on deep fakes
    After deepfakes, a new frontier of AI trickery: fake faces Images generated by an algorithm are appearing increasingly in bot campaigns and online news outlets The use of AI-generated faces means that networks of real-seeming social media accounts have been created to spread misinformation © FT montage Share on Twitter (opens new window) Share on Facebook (opens new window) Share on LinkedIn (opens new window) Siddharth Venkataramakrishnan October 12 2020 40 Print this page “Alfonzo Macias” looks unremarkable at first glance — bearded, bespectacled, with a short widow’s peak. But his strangely distorted glasses and the dissolving background behind him hint at a discomforting truth: Mr Macias never existed. Undetectable to the naked eye, the uncannily human face is in fact the creation of an algorithm — one used by pro-Trump media outlet TheBL to give an identity to one of the many fake Facebook accounts that it uses to drive traffic to its website. While less attention-grabbing than the viral deepfake videos that have manipulated the speech and actions of politicians and celebrities to popular effect in recent years, static artificial intelligence-generated faces are becoming an increasingly common tool for misinformation, experts say. Instead of making real people appear to say and do things they have not, the technique works by generating entirely “new” people from scratch. Already, fake faces have been identified in bot campaigns from China and Russia, as well as in rightwing online media outlets and purportedly legitimate businesses. Their proliferation has led to concerns that the technology could represent a more ubiquitous and pressing threat than deepfakes, as online platforms grapple with a rising tide of misinformation ahead of the US election. The report from Graphika and the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab into fake identities, showing tell-tale signs that the profile image for Alfonzo Macias is a deepfake The report from Graphika and the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab into fake identities, showing tell-tale signs that the profile image for Alfonzo Macias is a fake “A year ago, this was a novelty,” tweeted Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at social media intelligence group Graphika. “Now it feels like every operation we analyse tries this at least once.” The face race Like deepfakes, AI-generated faces are created using a technology known as GANs, or generative adversarial networks. One network generates content, while another compares it to human faces, forcing it to improve until it cannot distinguish the synthetic image from a real face. Digital renderings of fictional humans have had a growing presence online in recent years, with stars such as the virtual popstar, model and activist Miquela drawing in vast followings on Instagram and Twitter. But what sets GAN-generated faces apart is their photorealism — the level of detail that gives a strange lifelikeness to the characters. “The most recent GAN models [such as Nvidia’s popular StyleGAN2] can now be used to create highly realistic synthetic images of human faces, down to the minuscule details — in particular, skins and hair,” said Siwei Lyu, a professor in computer science at the University at Albany, State University of New York. ThisPersonDoesNotExist, a website that creates a StyleGAN2 face each time it is refreshed, demonstrates how convincing such images can be. The technique is also not limited to human faces, however, with dozens of variants ranging from cars to cats. While concerns over AI-powered misinformation had focused largely on political deepfakes, a substantial case was yet to materialise, said Henry Ajder, a researcher who specialises in deepfakes and synthetic media. “There hasn’t been the kind of [Donald] Trump waving the nuclear red button around.” However instances of GAN-generated fake faces used for deception have been appearing since last June, when the Associated Press identified an account on LinkedIn masquerading as a think-tank employee. Larger-scale use of the technique was first identified in December, when Graphika and the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab released a report on a network of over 900 pages, groups and accounts linked to the rightwing news outlet Epoch Media Group. “They used these fake faces to bolster their Facebook presence and deliver their messages to a wider audience,” said Max Rizzuto, research associate at the DFR Lab. A montage of faces generated by thispersondoesnotexist.com All of these faces were generated by thispersondoesnotexist.com. Meanwhile nation states have also spotted the technology’s potential, with Graphika discovering dozens of GAN-generated faces used in campaigns linked to China and Russia. In the case of China, GAN-generated images were used as profile pictures in a Facebook campaign, with fake accounts pushing pro-Beijing talking points on subjects including Taiwan, the South China Sea and Indonesia. By contrast, the Russian campaigns had used fake faces to create the personas of fictional editors behind divisive political news outlets. Giorgio Patrini, chief executive of deepfake detection platfor...

    from the financial times
    all fake

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  18. Dicart Registered Senior Member

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    I dont know all the poeples in the photos at bottom of your post very wellebut it can say that
    1 : Zuckerberg + someone else i know.
    2 : Gorbatchew + another else i know.
     

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