If you are a Christian American Student you may be inspired by this true event of resistance by Christian German students to the Nazi-s . America is becoming more and more like Nazi Germany , you have a duty to resist your Government , and speak out by taking action . But first here is their story .At great risk to themselves, a band of Christian university students calling themselves The White Rose , emerged in Nazi Germany in 1942 to brand Hitler a liar and to challenge the German people to resist his policies. Their leaflets began appearing in Munich in June, 1942 one leaflet ( which is applicable to America 2004 )said. "WHY DO THE GERMAN PEOPLE BEHAVE SO APATHETICALLY IN THE FACE OF ALL THESE ABOMINABLE CRIMES , CRIMES SO UNWORTHY OF THE HUMAN RACE ?" the Christian students asked . On Feb. 18 1943 , the White Rose Group acted with an unexplained, uncharacteristic lack of caution, throwing copies of leaflets from a balcony at the university an act for which they were arrested. A few days later the white rose group stood before Roland Freisler, an infamous Nazi hanging judge the Nazis ruthlessly sentenced the White Rose Group to death . I hope this story has given you some inspiration as to what your duty as Christains are thank you for reading my post .
All Christian American students please read this
- Thread starter Brian Foley
- Start date
Brian Foley said:
Unfortunately, many of the people we have to speak out about and take action against are members of the "Christian Right". Their 'Biblical' interpretation of the 'God-given' role of government. and their attacks on so-called "Liberal Christians", who they judge and condem along with anyone else who doesn't hold to their extreme views goes a long way towards assisting in the Nazification of America.
Repectfully Submitted:
Last I heard, G. W. Bush's approval rating was around 42 percent, and Kerry is setting records for democratic fund-raising. I'm not sure the term apathetic applies here. You may have valid objections to Bush's war on terror, but the correlation with Nazi Germany is not defendable, no one is promoting genocide here.
Whenever voter turnout is between 1/3 and 1/2 of the voting population, I think apathy is a valid adjective. And I assume that Brian's call against genocide refers to the abortion issue, but his post is vague. Does he care to clarify?spidergoat said:
My idea of 'Nazification' is probably different than Brian's. I think of the slow erosion of fundamental freedoms by the current and previous administrations is a huge danger to American democracy and religious freedom. The christian right is helping to shoot all freedom-loving people of conscience in the foot through misguided calls for action. IMHO, any time Christians get involved in political action they enter exeptionally dangerous territory, both for Christianity and democracy, since equal protection doesn't seem to fit into our calculus. If Christians demand to have an invocation at the start of a public meeting then we lose the position that Hindu's shouldn't be allowed to do it. If the Ten Commandments should be displayed in public buildings, then how can I make a compelling argument (in constitutional terms) to prevent the Wiccan Law from being displayed, especially if Wicca is the majority religion practiced in a given jurisdiction.
Bells
Staff member
That was well written Turduckin. I come from a country that deems itself to be a democracy and which supposedly follows that a separation of state and church exists. Yet the Lord's prayer is recited before each sitting of Parliament. It is now accepted that this occurs. We had a Governor-General who was once an Archbishop. The laws created by the State are not solely for the purposes of governing and controlling the masses. Instead they erode our personal rights and freedoms in areas that no government should ever have a say in. The religious right has pushed its foot forwards in so many areas of politics and law making that we continuously see our personal rights disappearing. I notice in the US that the Bush government is pushing for further tightening of the abortion laws and it is in such areas that I'm seeing the erosion of personal freedoms. Gays are told that it is alright to be gay, but it's wrong if you wish to marry. The interference of the ultra right christian can be seen in such rulings.
I remember the debacle of the 10 commandments being displayed in one of your court houses and I was suprised that so many people had a problem with it being removed. These same people would have probably screamed the house down if the five pillars of Islam had been displayed there instead, for example. I've always had the strong belief that religion has no place in politics and definitely no place in law making. Because the pure and simple fact is that to allow religion to play a role in such areas of the State would only result in one group having their beliefs represented while other groups are refused the same rights. However when we see today how the ultra right Christian groups are funding political parties, they will always be ensured of a voice with whoever is in power. And I find such a thought disturbing.
I remember the debacle of the 10 commandments being displayed in one of your court houses and I was suprised that so many people had a problem with it being removed. These same people would have probably screamed the house down if the five pillars of Islam had been displayed there instead, for example. I've always had the strong belief that religion has no place in politics and definitely no place in law making. Because the pure and simple fact is that to allow religion to play a role in such areas of the State would only result in one group having their beliefs represented while other groups are refused the same rights. However when we see today how the ultra right Christian groups are funding political parties, they will always be ensured of a voice with whoever is in power. And I find such a thought disturbing.
I have this discussion with my friends all the time who are ultra-Christian. I am a liberal Christian and firmly believe separation of church and state saves both the church and the state. Statistics back me up. The countries with the highest rate of religious observance: India, Indonesia, Lebanon, Mexico and the US, are all countries where freedom of worship are guaranteed. They are also democracies. Countries with state religions have much lower rates of religious observance. Some analysts chalk this up to religious observance being equated with political expression.
If you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, etc. you do not need man's law to force you to follow the dictates of your religion. You will do so naturally. By the same token, all citizens of a country who are compelled to live by that country's laws should be guaranteed the protection of those laws. All the years when I was an atheist, no amount of legislation would have compelled me to believe, although it may have compelled me to pretend to believe.
If you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, etc. you do not need man's law to force you to follow the dictates of your religion. You will do so naturally. By the same token, all citizens of a country who are compelled to live by that country's laws should be guaranteed the protection of those laws. All the years when I was an atheist, no amount of legislation would have compelled me to believe, although it may have compelled me to pretend to believe.
If freedom of religion truly means anything, then people have a right to define marriage and life by the tenets of their religion. Accordingly, we have the right to impress these beliefs onto society because these are not religious beliefs. The process used to aquire these beliefs is irrelevant.
Bells said:
Just because religion has no place with "state", doesn't mean God has no place either..
Of course, if you would rather not have the laws of your country based on tenets of Christianity and its foundation set by Christians, I am sure Sharia law will benefit you immensely. Simply ask PM
Separation of State and Church is a hugely important concept that should be practiced more than it is preached. Nations which are governed by a combination of the two are backwards in comparison to those that are not and we only have to look at history to see that much of the antagonism between the Western European states was based soley on religious conflict which caused many of the wars that occured frequently.
The separation of Chruch and State also plays another key role in that it stops nut cases who believe they are god's messenger from thinking all their actions are deemed by god to be. Unfortunately, George W Bush is a complete twat who thinks god speaks to him and so therefore all he does is righteously ordained.
What is more disturbing is that he also holds the conviction that one American's life is worth 2000 Iraqi lives (something like that). Because of what he believes he therefore has no moral position in which he can actively look at the fact that all life is equal. He is a very dangerous man and his 'born again' fanaticism is a great modern day example of why Church and State should be kept as divided as they possibly can.
The separation of Chruch and State also plays another key role in that it stops nut cases who believe they are god's messenger from thinking all their actions are deemed by god to be. Unfortunately, George W Bush is a complete twat who thinks god speaks to him and so therefore all he does is righteously ordained.
What is more disturbing is that he also holds the conviction that one American's life is worth 2000 Iraqi lives (something like that). Because of what he believes he therefore has no moral position in which he can actively look at the fact that all life is equal. He is a very dangerous man and his 'born again' fanaticism is a great modern day example of why Church and State should be kept as divided as they possibly can.
Bells
Staff member
Hardy ha ha!§outh§tar said:Just because religion has no place with "state", doesn't mean God has no place either..
Of course, if you would rather not have the laws of your country based on tenets of Christianity and its foundation set by Christians, I am sure Sharia law will benefit you immensely. Simply ask PM
But seriously, I don't believe any religion should form the founding blocks for any State. Not everyone is a Christian, just like not everyone is Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. God and politics should never mix and God and law making should definitely never, ever mix.
People take their 'God/s' with wherever they go, whatever their 'God/s' are. (I happen to believe my God kicks any other god's @$#, so I leave it up to him.)§outh§tar said:
My children are trained to pray anywhere, anytime and under any circumstances. If they have to, they know how to pray and look like they have eye strain or a headache - so they don't have to get into a fight with the school system. (Matthew 6:5-6) BUT - if someone asks what they are doing, they should answer honestly and say they are praying (Luke 8:16). This accomplishes 3 things - they can pray when Spririt moves them, they don't fall into the trap of trying to make everyone believe they are righteous by their actions, and they are free to respond to anyone else who is moved to ask what they are doing. Christian activism is a dangerous territory with many pitfalls - only Spirit can guide - and the devil encourages self-righteousness. Many of us Christians, especially in the U.S., fall into the trap of thinking we are persecuted because we can't pray in large groups at the school football game. But I ask, 'Who is stopping us?' Just gather together in a group and pray. If anyone tries to stop us, we have a legitimate and actionable grievance. But why should I demand the opportunity to pray in a manner sanctioned by an earthly authority like the schoolboard? That is hypocrisy! I niether expect nor require the right to stop the football game and force everyone else to pray with me! That is arrogance and does more harm than good. We Christians in the US really have no clue what persecution really is. (see Fox's book of Martyrs for a fun read!)
Always the baby gets thown out with the bathwater!§outh§tar said:Of course, if you would rather not have the laws of your country based on tenets of Christianity and its foundation set by Christians, I am sure Sharia law will benefit you immensely. Simply ask PM
I'm happy the way things are. This country was founded by people of various beliefs, many of which were based on what is today considered false Christian doctrine (deism and unitarianism come to mind). I have the freedom to reject or accept doctrine based on my conscience in Christ, rather than the will of the current religious majority. (Matthew 7:13-15)DoctorNO said:SILLY GURL! ALLAH IS LAW! By what right do you dictate your creator to unmix himself from the law? Allah knows best and you know nothing! SILLY GURL!
it seems like a case of dr does'nt know
some proof of the existance of allah would not go amise dr
and she's not a silly girl she an intelligent person dont patronise
subjucate you own women not the one's on sciforums thankyou
Bells
Staff member
DoctorNO, my sole creator were my parents. God had no say in the matter. I'm guessing it was more a case of randy parents and the lights out (ok I'm not going to discuss this further because I just felt my skin crawlDoctorNO said:SILLY GURL! ALLAH IS LAW! By what right do you dictate your creator to unmix himself from the law? Allah knows best and you know nothing! SILLY GURL!
). To involve God in law making will result in only one faction being represented and satisfied by the law, while the others who do not believe in that God or do not believe in God at all will feel not only left out, but they can also feel that the law does not represent their interests.
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Bells said:DoctorNO, my sole creator were my parents. God had no say in the matter. I'm guessing it was more a case of randy parents and the lights out (ok I'm not going to discuss this further because I just felt my skin crawl
To involve God in law making will result in only one faction being represented and satisfied by the law, while the others who do not believe in that God or do not believe in God at all will feel not only left out, but they can also feel that the law does not represent their interests.
Aw shucks I was hopin youd play. My goodness and I thought you already know me by now.