ALMA sees old galaxies before they merged. two ways to look back into the past?

a non-existent purely permittive condition with no intrinsic spatial or temporal existence.
Just permittive, i.e. non-restrictive to expansion of our universe, creating space and time.

I do not want in any way to inject the Quantum mechanics phenomena, like the effect of observation, even awareness on the outcome or emergence of the permittive condition. but
It is not enough for some sentient being to have after the fact in the nascent vastness of the present universe to have pondered the pre=BB conditions to have them declared really existent.
The essential situations, with non-destructible energy as a fundamental in the cosmos* as a given, requires real time to have been there, as a prerequisite, not just an afterthought triggering the permittiveness retroactively.
The expanding sphere advancing into the future should not be thought of as bulldozing itself into the future either, but of, in a diluted form perhaps, still carrying out the BB cascading process of time/energy absorption from the surrounding realm, timespace or energytime.
* cosmos as in the total all, more than just the local universe.
 
I agree, the space in which we live needed to come into existence, and it has a duration., not so for time.
The time has come to recognize that time is fundamental. even a condition, a potential, a possibility to be valid needs time to exist in or?
Or a quantum moment, maybe?
 
I do not want in any way to inject the Quantum mechanics phenomena, like the effect of observation, even awareness on the outcome or emergence of the permittive condition. but
It is not enough for some sentient being to have after the fact in the nascent vastness of the present universe to have pondered the pre=BB conditions to have them declared really existent.
The essential situations, with non-destructible energy as a fundamental in the cosmos* as a given, requires real time to have been there, as a prerequisite, not just an afterthought triggering the permittiveness retroactively.
The expanding sphere advancing into the future should not be thought of as bulldozing itself into the future either, but of, in a diluted form perhaps, still carrying out the BB cascading process of time/energy absorption from the surrounding realm, timespace or energytime.
* cosmos as in the total all, more than just the local universe.
I understand what you are saying, but there really is no term for that which is outside the Cosmos, except in a multiverse.
In physical cosmology, the term cosmos is often used in a technical way, referring to a particular spacetime continuum within the (postulated) multiverse. Our particular cosmos, the observable universe, is generally capitalized as the Cosmos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos

Unless there exist other universes, I can only visualize the BB as an instataneous and spontaneous phenomenon.
"Then there was nothing, then there was something".

I believe that the concept of an infinite timespace has been proven improbable. Moreover, it still would not account for the creation of energy. Time is not energetic or causal to change. Time is a result of change.

As I understand it, even M theory is about properties of our universe, not as timebranes occupying timespace before the BB.
Branes
Main article: Brane
In string theory and related theories such as supergravity theories, a brane is a physical object that generalizes the notion of a point particle to higher dimensions. For example, a point particle can be viewed as a brane of dimension zero, while a string can be viewed as a brane of dimension one. It is also possible to consider higher-dimensional branes. In dimension p, these are called p-branes. Branes are dynamical objects which can propagate through spacetime according to the rules of quantum mechanics. They can have mass and other attributes such as charge. A p-brane sweeps out a (p+1)-dimensional volume in spacetime called its worldvolume. Physicists often study fields analogous to the electromagnetic field which live on the worldvolume of a brane. The word brane comes from the word "membrane" which refers to a two-dimensional brane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory#Supersymmetry

IMO, the simplest logical argument is an abstract unstable singularity, which exploded with near infinite energy, and was fundamentally causal to space and time as well as dynamical strings, which were/are causal to the formation of "stuff".
 
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I understand what you are saying, but there really is no term for that which is outside the Cosmos, except in a multiverse
I would rather consider pipe, energytime, timespace, a pristine conditions, not complicated by a multitudes of other universes expanding from their unique points in timespace alongside us. like
The Dirac Sea, unmarred by islands disrupting the blandness, but shaved cleanly by Occam.

the concept of an infinite timespace has been proven improbable. Moreover, it still would not account for the creation of energy. Time is not energetic or causal to change. Time is a result of change

Time is the arena that makes anything, including change, possible. Change would involve an acceleration, time upon time or t^2 time as a dimension must be fundamental.
What would account for your creation of energy?, I thought it is not creatable, but it is fundamental, infinite too, but all requiring timespace to exist.

w4u; "--infinite timespace has been been proven improbable--" how? where? please.

IMO, the simplest logical argument is an abstract unstable singularity, which exploded with near infinite energy, and was fundamentally causal to space and time as well as dynamical strings, which were/are causal to the formation of "stuff"
pardon my dismissal, but on a small scale, that would be a terrorist's dream, having an abstract, non existing bomb wreaking such havoc, then self-assemble the debri into useful entities.
stuff is just another form of possible infinite primordial energy, pipe, existing in infinite energytime, and filling infinite timespace.
I like to be hoarding stuff in this, our unique universe for now.

Afterthought: It took tremendous amount of focussed energy, to try to mimic in a small way through proton collisions, the conditions near the BB time, -- what makes you think it had to be different before the real thing? time and energy a priority. always, infinitely.
 
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Serious gap' in cosmic expansion rate hints at new physics
By Paul RinconScience editor, BBC News website, Washington
A mathematical discrepancy in the expansion rate of the Universe is now "pretty serious", and could point the way to a major discovery in physics, says a Nobel laureate.

The most recent results suggest the inconsistency is not going away.

Prof Adam Riess told BBC News that an unknown phenomenon, such as a new particle, might explain the deviation.

.

This phenomenon was widely attributed to a mysterious, unexplained "dark energy" filling the cosmos.----------" quote.
"
This article appeared on BBC Jan 11, 2018.
Posting part of it here because
The Expanding Sphere Membrane model shows, that the same timespace energytime that existed prior to the Big Beginning possibly still exists, surrounding the Universe today, and might fuel the 9% greater expansion, mentioned in the article , as the membrane/universe expands into the future.
 
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time is running backwards to meet the present event
from the astronomy forum:
time is not running, certainly not backwardly. Time for the purpose of this model is seen as infinite, and it is the us our universe that is running into the future ever forward. starting from the BB, all matter has spread out moving through time radially outward, and is seen in the model to form an expanding sphere membrane. The inside is empty, (Gauss Faraday cage)the past is gone, we can see the past events only by way of the radiation circulating in the spher, membrane with a horizon ~ 13 billion years, light years into the past spacetime.
 
The ESM model, predicated on the shell theorem, correctly assumes, that there was never gravity at the center of the universe, and is not now, the empty interior of the model's sphere/shell . The past.
The light coming from the deep past interior, near-center, has therefore been redshifted, not blueshifted from it's energetic first steps out.
 
w4u; "--infinite timespace has been been proven improbable--" how? where? please.
The Beginning of this universe?

I have never heard anyone address the question of the Infinite existence of an immortal God which was motivated to create the heavens and the earth.

Apparently God had a beginning. There is always a beginning and an end. Infinity is an incomprehensible concept, IMO. Even this universe will end or transform.
 
Michael 345 said: Quote:
[
1/ Nothing outside of the Universe to offer resistance (no force beyond the Universe)

2/ Noted acceleration means that the Big Bang is still in operation - the stuff of the Universe still has not reached its maximum speed (from the energy given to it by the Big Bang)

good points!
1) referring to the ALMA thread in alternate: Not only does the outside of the universe, in the model, the future not move any resistance, but it might be drawing the expansion out into it.
2a) the ALMA Expanding Sphere Membrane model shows that the pre-BB condition (timespace and energytime) still surround the universe, and expansion into it, could consist of a BB stretched into >80 billion light years circumference/surface. Not likely though, because the BB is theorized to be a one- off, BIG event.
2b) perhaps more mass is converted to energy, to supply a continuing surplus to accelerate? like putting the pedal to the metal , emptying the tank to accelerate?
 
Michael 345 said,

1/ Nothing outside of the Universe to offer resistance (no force beyond the Universe)

2/ Noted acceleration means that the Big Bang is still in operation - the stuff of the Universe still has not reached its maximum speed (from the energy given to it by the Big Bang)
Nebel said,
good points!
1) referring to the ALMA thread in alternate: Not only does the outside of the universe, in the model, the future not move any resistance, but it might be drawing the expansion out into it.
2a) the ALMA Expanding Sphere Membrane model shows that the pre-BB condition (timespace and energytime) still surround the universe, and expansion into it, could consist of a BB stretched into >80 billion light years circumference/surface. Not likely though, because the BB is theorized to be a one- off, BIG event.
2b) perhaps more mass is converted to energy, to supply a continuing surplus to accelerate? like putting the pedal to the metal , emptying the tank to accelerate?
Did you just deny the Laws of Thermodynamics?
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/thermo2.html
 
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There is always a beginning and an end. Infinity is an incomprehensible concept, IMO. Even this universe will end or transform.
bold added for emphasis.

If there is an "always " , there is eternity, there is infinite time. The fact that it is incomprehensible, just shows the limitations of our makeup, being confronted with all the greater realities.
Even when the universe as we know it, or we, ultimately end, -- time will not, and obviously neither will the energy that is coexisting in it. so:
In the ESM model, timespace is infinite, so is ys alter ego, energytime.
Would discuss "God" in the religious section only. Obviously before religions can insert their favoured heros into existence, these would have to have time to exist, energy to play with, and having both as infinite, eternal to accommodate them.
 
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that covers a wide range of order-disorder developments. how does in specific, in your mind the ESM model, any of it's discreet features clash with which aspects of it? thank you!
No clue, other than that the universe sheds energy. Over time, temperatures will continue to fall until they reach absolute zero and the universe ceases all dynamic functions. Time will stand still for eternity.
Unless.........another BB?
 
This is posted because Figure c depicts the gravity/energy situation in the proposed Expanding Sphere Membrane model. There is an infinity in the future, outside of the membrane/uni
Diagram_Gravity.jpg


here is the weekend's project. Fig 1, mainstream surface gravity, Fig 2 showing inside g gradients, Figure c : Gravity in empty shell, Fig. d gravity in a disk.
#1 the level of zero gravity, going to infinity, and showing interior points, areas 6 where 0 g occurs. #2 areas traced by the depressing ball , showing depth, strength of spacetime warp, #3, 31-34 identifies the entities depicted, # 4 identifies the interior g gradient in a even density body, #5 hints at the same gravity fall-off in a body with increasing mass toward the center (line in Figure 5 missing) (numbering 5 in Fig d missing), #7 the deep gravity well leading to a black hole, but still having zero g at center point 6, #8, location of black hole at the center of a deep well, stuck in time also, (see ALMA thread). Ghostly images at right, are rough sketches what this would look like in 3D.
Note the important lazy 8 symbols at rights, showing zero gravity #1 and outside gravity gradients#2 going to infinity.
questions please.
 
1 the level of zero gravity at infinity
2 areas traced by the depressing ball , showing depth, strength of spacetime warp
3hollow spherical mass
4 interior g gradient
6 areas where 0 g occurs

This illustration above shows accurately (not to size) the forces situation inside (the past ) and the outside (the future) of the expanding sphere universe.
Note that the gravity is at the zero level in the interior #6. It falls steeply inside the membrane, vertical lines #4 (thank you dave c426913 for your hint),
Lines #2 show the gradient of any f/d^2 forces, such as gravity stretching to eternity. in all directions of course not just "horizontally "as here. Now:

You might object: "there is nothing outside the universe". Well the model implies, that
There always was nothing, all the time, that time is eternal, infinite, embodied in timespace, and since
It took energy to convert to our mass, massive universe, that infinite time was actually energytime.
Both timespace and energytime have not disappeared because the universe started at the BB, it still surrounds us, just like before that.
The universe, pictured by the expanding shell, is moving into that future time, which stretches to the lazy 8, infinity.
contrary refutations please.
 
<www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180402110739.htm>.
oldest star seen, ~ 9 billion light years away. so, how would that appear in the membrane of the continuing expansion through time? Obviously
The light left the universe /membrane when it was smaller, ~65% its present size, a nice golden ratio radius, but comes to us from inside the membrane with all the other message from that age at a circle shown on the surface. An advanced observer on that circumference would perhaps look at our sun too, with an enthusiastic "Wow" at that deeptime discovery. but
if she* looked the other way could see stars that are 18 billion years away from us, shining in front of the CMB, that we all see.
* I hope they have ladies 9 billion away too.
ps: It is not that the universe is older than these stars, but the other "oldest" stars , that we will never see, could be 28 billion years away in look back time along the membrane model. illustration to follow, hopefully.
 
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Visualising the Universe expanding through time:
Here os a rough sketch of the MAC1 star in the scheme of the Expanding Sphere Membrane time dependant model of the universe:
Diagram1.jpg
 
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