*Any posts, even PART of a post, not directly related to the OP (i.e. the existence of black holes and the various attempts to explain that existence) shall be reported to the moderator for deletion.*

In the past I've asked (what I feel are) some pretty basic, logical questions about black holes to many people that I would assume would be able to supply straight-forward, well established, community-accepted answers. Here's a version of my logical conundrum:

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#1 Do all frames outside of the BH calculate that no mass crosses the EH using Schwarzschild coordinates (or, more specifically, mass crosses the EH at t=infinity)?

#2 Does the EH expand only after mass has crossed it?

If you concur with #1 and #2, then run the clock backwards in your mind and describe to me how this theoretical black hole formed in the first place...

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To this point I've received many responses including the following:

1) Backreaction occurs before EH crossing

2) Unruh radiation

3) Vaidya metric

4) Kruskal coordinates

5) The finite proper time of the in-falling body proves the BH's existence

6) "A very famous man told me so" (this is my favorite)

7) Speculative "mystery mechanisms"

8) "Here, check out my class notes" (implying, to me, that they feel the answer was explained to them in class but they didn't understand it either)

...and in most cases, when I ask more questions, I generally get the feeling that the respondent is speaking with less authority than I would expect from someone that was 100% sure of what they were talking about. [It goes without saying that my authority is exactly ZERO, save for rational thought and the ability to ask questions; if black holes cannot be explained rationally then I have a problem with them] If nothing else, I find it odd that there isn't more consistency in the explanations.

Anyway, my most recent discussion involved #4 (Kruskal coordinates), although posters are welcome to discuss any explanation they wish. If you believe that Kruskal coordinates allow for the existence of black holes, and you feel up to the challenge of explaining this to a layman, please explain to me how they do so. I understand that Kruskal coordinates avoid the mathematical singularity associated with the Schwarzschild event horizon by selecting new space and time components, U and V, to replace R and T. This, I am OK with and believe I understand. Next, the claim is made that,

*because*these new components are finite at the crossing of the EH, infalling bodies cross that EH in finite time from the outsider's perspective. This, I am not getting...a change in coordinates should not change conclusions about whether an infalling body makes it beyond a certain threshold...please help. :shrug: