American CONTRACTOR beheaded today.....+3

invert_nexus said:
Doesn't quite work, these people didn't cut the guys head off. You pay for yourself. You can't use others lifes to pay for your own crimes.
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Dying by cruise missile or torture is better? What about the ones who took days to die from their injuries? What crimes? A pre-emptive strike on shoddy evidence isn't criminal? Launching cruise missiles on neighborhoods on the off-chance your target might be there isn't criminal? Is the US justified by default?
 
I'm curious, Al-Kaboni, what are your thoughts on the matter? Do you agree with the execution? If so, do you agree with the slapdash way it was done? It seems that these guys have no clue what they are doing. The guy reading the speech is changing pages left and right. Is he actually reading it? Or just making it up as he goes along? Do you think that there might be better ways to kill somebody than slowly sawing their head off? I feel pity for the guy, but he knew what the risks were when he went over. But, I can't forgive the fact these men were brutal in their ineptitude.

And am I to understand from the title of the thread that you're saying the victim was told previous to his execution that he was going to be killed? Didn't look that way to me.
 
Crime? Cutting off a guy's head would be a crime in my book. You seem to be saying that because other people in Iraq died these particular murderers already paid for their act. With someone else's lives.

Also, there is a translation of the speech they gave before they did it down in the cesspool now, it might get merged in here later. In this translation, they seem to be chastising the Iraqis for not reacting strongly. The way I read it, it is the strongest evidence that I've seen that the Iraqis really are with us, for the most part. It's foreign dissidents causing problems.
 
Ok....
I don't agree with this manner.

But, I think that they depend on the role "One By One", ie: As the Americans slaughter the Iraqi Prisoners in the prison of Abu Ghrayb, So it is Now! Our time to slaughter an American"

Becarefull to reply my post, because this is not my thought, but their thoughts!!

I'm only a translator!!!

Thanks to all!
 
I can understand their sentiment. Upon watching the video, I am immediately overwhelmed with the desire to slaughter a terrorist (Al Quaeda, whatever...). The only way to stop this is to break the cycle. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This just makes things worse.
 
As I just wrote a thread here!!

But, the Admin moved it!!

At the same time I'm so tired to translate what Al-Zarqawy Said!!!

So, I will put a link for it and a quote from it!!!

((((Becarefull I'm Only a Translator and don't agreed with this matter of slaughtering that Al-Zarqawy done!!! ))))))

The link:
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http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=36166

Here is a Full translation:
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[The man introduces himself, his family, and where he lived]

``My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Suzanne, I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia.''

Praise be to Allah who honoured Islaam with His support, and humilated shirk with His power, and control of the affairs with His Command, and seducer (mustadrij)with His plotting (makr).

To proceed:

O ummah of Islaam!

Glad tidings! For the signs of Fajr (i.e. day-light) have begun, and the winds of victory have rised, for Allah has honoured us with a great victory in Faloojah, in a day from the days of Allah, and so all grace is for Allah alone.

O ummah of Islaam!

Is there still an excuse for the seated-one? And how can a free Muslim sleep close-eyed whilst seeing Islaam being slaughtered, and he sees the bleeding of honour, and the images of shame, and the news of satanic abuse on the people of Islaam, men and women, in the prison of Abu Ghrayb. So where is the jealousy, and where is the zeal, and where is the anger for the religion of Allah? And where is the jealousy over the honour of the Muslims, and where is the revenge taken for the honour of the Muslim males and females in the prisons of the Crusaders.

As for you, O scholars of Islaam, then to Allah we complain (about you), do you not see that Allah has established the evidence on you by way of the youth of Islaam who humiliated the most paramount of powers in history, and broke its nose and destroyed its arrogance?

Has the time not come for you to learn from them the meanings of tawwakul (reliance on Allah), and to seek guidance from their actions lessons in sacrifice and forebearance, until when will you remain like the women, not knowing better than to wail, and not knowing a path except the path of screaming and crying?

So this (scholar) appeals to the free-men of this world, and the other seeks tawwasul (help) from Kofi Anan, and a third calls for help from 'Amr Moosa, and a fourth calls for peaceful demonstrations, as though they have not heard of the saying of the Most High: "O Messenger, arouse the believes on fighting"

Are you not fed up (lit. full up) of the Jihaad of the conferences and the battles of giving sermons, has the time for you not come to lift the sword with which the master of the Messengers was sent with?

And we hope, that you will not place yourself in a dillemma (after seeing) what we will do, as you usually do to please the Americans.

For the Messenger, sallallahu 'alayhi wa salam - and he is the master of the merciful ones - has commanded with the slaughtering of some of the prisoners of Badr, and killed them with all patience. And in him, we have an example and a good model.

As for you O dog of the Romans Bush, then have tidings of what will displease you, and await with the assistance of Allah for hard days, and you will regret - you, and your soldiers - on the day you set on the soil of 'Iraaq.

And another message for the treacherous stooge, Perveez Musharraf, then we say to him: We are in the highest of desires, awaiting your soldiers. For by Allah, we will seek them before the Americans, and will avenge for the blood of our brothers in Waana and other than it.

As for you, O mothers and wives of the American soldiers, then we say to you: We offered the American adminstration a (chance) to rescue this prisoner (by exchanging him) with some in the prison of Abu Ghrayb, so she declined. So we say to you: The honour of the Muslims males and females in the prison of Abu Ghrayb and other than it, is offered at the price of blood and souls, and nothing will reach you from us, except corpses following corpses, and coffins following coffins slaughtered in this manner.

"So kill the mushrikeen wherever you see them, and take them, and sanction them, and await them at every place"

[Takbeeraat, then end.]

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the Film Links:
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http://www.jadmadi.net/vedio/iraq2vediom.rm

or

http://members.lycos.co.uk/mebwab/zarqawy.zip

or

http://members.lycos.co.uk/mebwab2/zarqawy.zip

The password for zipped file is: zarqawy
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The decapitation of Nick Berg

The shock and revulsion of America at Nick Berg's execution is hypocrisy, and those words from a president who has signed execution warrants and many of these executions have been filmed for the benefit of television documentaries. How many WWII executions did the Americans photograph and film ? Here are a few facts that I would like to share with you .1st Did you notice that the man was executed was wearing orange overalls hmmmm ... Did the Iraqi liberation put their Nick Berg through the same treatment that the US used in Cuba. 2nd was Nick Berg the same kind of American as journalist Daniel Pearl you know what I mean a 100 % Israeli citizen, merely working in America, and probably a Mossad agent? Do you remember the fury of the Pearl family, living in Israel, when an Israeli newspaper blew his cover. The clue to this I found , is that "Philadelphia businessmann" Nick Berg is said to have been a "civilian contractor". Israeli assistance in Iraq is in the form of civilian contractors you know hired mercenaries, supplied to operate in the fields of prisoner of war interrogation , Intelligence, or contract killings. Dont you find it odd that Berg was kidnapped a month ago and not a word of his capture was breathed in the US media about it until now . Nor do I recall any reports on the discovery of his body on Saturday.
 
The shock and revulsion of America at Nick Berg's execution is hypocrisy, and those words from a president who has signed execution warrants
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I don't think the opinions and beliefs of the American people are necessarily consistent with those of the president nor the administration. Perhaps Bush's "shock and revulsion" is hypocrisy, but to generalize this to "America's" hypocrisy is not rational.
 
Undecided said:
Those "terrorists" are not bound by international law, they should but they aren't yet.
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The US are bound by international law..the Geneva convention perhaps ??



And who are the insurgents? remember it was the west in this that is the invader and the agressor .....
 
America, more than any other nation, deserves its government and media. "America" projects and reveals itself to the world through its government and its policies. For Al quada, Taliban, al-Zarqawi, etc... "America" is the enemy.
 
Undecided said:
The acts perpetrated by those men is inexcusable, yes the Americans did kill prisoners, and raped them, etc. But if they really want the US to pay for its actions, they should have left the US to wallow.
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I think the terrorists hurt themselves more than the US, what they have done has taken away the publicy from the prisoner abuse scandal. People are talking more about what they did an have forgotten about what the US soldiers did :rolleyes:
 
invert_nexus said:
Crime? Cutting off a guy's head would be a crime in my book.
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You said, “You can't use others lifes to pay for your own crimes.” How can they use his life to pay for a crime that occurs when they kill him?

You seem to be saying that because other people in Iraq died these particular murderers already paid for their act. With someone else's lives.
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You said, “Doesn't quite work, these people didn't cut the guys head off.” Where “these people” are Americans launching cruise missiles. Well the analogy does work because victims all around died grisly deaths. If someone ought to die for the beheading, as Rappaccini said, and if the analogy works, then the cruise missile attack can be payment in advance for the beheading.

... The way I read it, it is the strongest evidence that I've seen that the Iraqis really are with us, for the most part. It's foreign dissidents causing problems.
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Only an unbiased opinion poll will tell you how the Iraqis feel. The last one shows that the majority wants the US to occupy temporarily if it brings peace/stability, but they do not want an indefinite occupation. That was before Abu Ghraib. Since the US is planning to occupy indefinitely, the “dissidents causing problems” are actually fighting for the majority opinion.
 
Porfiry said:
I don't think the opinions and beliefs of the American people are necessarily consistent with those of the president nor the administration. Perhaps Bush's "shock and revulsion" is hypocrisy, but to generalize this to "America's" hypocrisy is not rational.
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Not all Americans, but a majority of people is always responsible for what the president does. He is their representative. He can be removed if they don’t like what he’s doing. If not then they implicitly agree with his actions.
 
alty said:
I think the terrorists hurt themselves more than the US, what they have done has taken away the publicy from the prisoner abuse scandal.
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Possible but consider this reaction:

invert_nexus said:
Upon watching the video, I am immediately overwhelmed with the desire to slaughter a terrorist (Al Quaeda, whatever...). The only way to stop this is to break the cycle. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This just makes things worse.
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Alty, sometimes things do have to get worse before they get better. Like in Madrid. If nobody made the US pay for its aggression, the US would steamroll everyone.
 
Don't accept the huge amount of money you get as a contractor in Iraq unless you're wiling to risk getting your head sliced.

If I went I'd go for humanitarian reasons(not profit and american-ization) and I'm confident that these "terrorists" are human, and I wouldn't have any reasons to worry about them deliberately killing me. There's obviously huge risks in dangers in a place of war..
 
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How can they use his life to pay for a crime that occurs when they kill him?
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I don't understand you. The people who cut off Berg's head should pay for their crime with their own lives. Unfortunately, they probably won't directly. Maybe there's such a thing as karma and they'll die their own brutal deaths. I imagine that eventually their own comrades will kill them for some triviality or another. Or maybe they'll suicide bomb themselves.

You said, “Doesn't quite work, these people didn't cut the guys head off.” Where “these people” are Americans launching cruise missiles. Well the analogy does work because victims all around died grisly deaths.
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Actually, I meant "these people" here as the people that were killed in any cruise missile attacks or the like. Sorry about the confusion, too many they's and them. What I'm saying is that the people who cut off Berg's head have no right to use someone else's life this way. To say that they are justified because Iraqi's have been killed in collateral damage. For one thing, I doubt they are even Iraqis to begin with. For another thing, what did Berg have to do with it? He's not a soldier.

I think that a lot of the problems we in the west feel about this is cultural differences. In Islam, ransoming prisoners is a common tactic. Cutting off heads also seems to be a common punishment. Ok, so if they want to cut off someone's head, at least do it quickly. Someone said in another post, can't remember if it was in here or in the original translation thread, about looking the guy in the eyes as they kill him. If you're gonna cut someone's head off, you should at least let them see your face as you do it.

I understand how they (head-hunters) feel. They feel the need for eye for an eye, etc... And I also feel that Berg knew the risks when he went over to Iraq to begin with. The biggest problem I have with this whole thing is the brutal clumsiness with which it was done. Have you seen the tape? As they read from their papers, they shuffle them constantly. Is he actually reading it or just making it up as he goes along? When they begin to cut his head off, it takes a long time to saw his head off. I believe that there was a cut in the video, that they turned the camera off after a few minutes of trying to cut his head off. They probably discovered that it was more difficult than they thought it would be, and let him bleed out before they turned the camera back on and continued. He seemed quite dead by the time they continue. And it's obvious that Berg wasn't told that he was going to be executed. I consider that as disgusting as the rest. He should have been allowed time to accept his fate. Or at least come to some type of terms with it. But, I suppose they'll get better at it with each execution they commit. It is perhaps possible that these men weren't monsters, that their clumsiness could be attributed to a hesitance to commit this act. But then again, serial killers first kill is usually a clumsy affair. I still hold to the idea that the killer had a throbbing boner as he did the deed.

Only an unbiased opinion poll will tell you how the Iraqis feel. The last one shows that the majority wants the US to occupy temporarily if it brings peace/stability, but they do not want an indefinite occupation.
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Of course, this is true, but I think the statement the head-hunters read says a lot. They are there, in Iraq. They see the real situation. They see it better than the media and our soldiers in fact, because they are able to integrate with the population. It seems that they're upset that the Iraqis aren't rising up.

From the translation:
...So where is the jealousy, and where is the zeal, and where is the anger for the religion of Allah? And where is the jealousy over the honour of the Muslims, and where is the revenge taken for the honour of the Muslim males and females in the prisons of the Crusaders...
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To me, that's saying that these head-hunters, who belong to a group of people who are all out for an uprising and Jihad and all that shit, are pissed because Iraqis aren't rising up to repel the invaders. This to me says that, as has been stated by our propaganda corps, it is foreigners who are coming in and causing problems for the occupation.


Look, I understand your point that the head-hunters feel that they are merely revenging atrocities done on others before them. I also understand that one of the main things this video is supposed to do is enrage the west, causing us to escalate the war, to commit more atrocities. We have to break that cycle. Chances are we're never gonna find out exactly who the head-hunters are. So they'll never be prosecuted in a formal way. We shouldn't carry our punishment from the head-hunters to Arabs/Iraqis in general.

You have to admit that this war has the least amount of collateral damage in the history of warfare. The coalition troops bend over backwards to lessen civilian casualties. There is no way to completely prevent civilian deaths, yet, but we're working on it.
 
Questions about the beheading...

After viewing the Nick Berg video, I started doing research all over the net and found a couple odd points I'd like to bring up:

1. Nick Berg allowed a terrosit with connections to the 911 bomimbing to use his computer.

2. Nick Berg was an independant US contracter in Iraq, without any military connections, who went to Iraq in his own will.

3. Chilean freelance journalist Hugo Infante told CNN: "Nick told me, 'Iraqi police caught me one night, they saw my passport and my Jewish last name and my Israeli stamp. This guy thought I was a spy so they put me with American soldiers and American soldiers put me in a jail for two weeks.'"

Yet, the US denies having custody of Berg?

4. In the video, Nick Berg is wearing an orange jumpsuit - the kind wore in US prisons. Do terrorists usually take the time to put their victims in jumpsuits?

5. The man reading on the tape identifies himself as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi - supposed dead; and supposed to have one prosthetic leg. CNN anylists said that the voice did not sound like al-Zarqawi.

6. Right at the moment of the beheading, the tape cuts, about six seconds are missing. The tape again cuts right before the head is lifted into the air.

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I have also read other holes in this story that I am having trouble filling. There are arguements that the men in the video show no emotion (not even anger) and that they speak poor Arabic (I wouldn't know though). Also that the room Berg is in looks like a prison cell in Abu Ghraib... that the walls are the same color and that Nick Berg is sitting in one of the white chairs seen in the abuse pictures.

There were things about the men looking white and giving off suspicious body language - most of this was superfluous info, but I thought I should include it.

Also: This all happened on the tail end of the Brit Abuse picture scandel.

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After mixing all the truth with the conspiracy and scrapping away the questions by providing plausible answers, I am only left with more vexing questions.

It seems to me that this could be a scam conducted in Abu Ghraib. Without disturbing the soul of Nick Berg, I think it is entirely possible that the US Government would create this sort of ruckus to play down our recent ABUSE actions in Iraq. It is weird that this came after the Brit hoax...

And if there were going to kill an American, I don't think they would kill an innocent guy (we are not Evil). We would kill someone who deserved it (in the eyes of our policy, not God). Nick Berg seems to fit that profile...

I mean, he did let a terrorist use his somputer and he was in Iraq working on communication towers independantly. I don't want to point a finger at the guy, I mean, I am sorry that he died - it is a cruel world that we live in.

I'm just really confused by all this. I'm not your typical conspiracy theory cab driver, and most things go in one of my ears and out the other - but this iceBERG is weighing my brain.

I was just wondering if anyone here could offer some insight that might help me see a clearer picture. Thanks.
 
The world we live in........

All I gotta say is the U.S. fvcked up on this one bigtime. They had Nick Berg then they let him go. Now he is dead bcoz they didnt bring him back to the States. Oh well. Sad tragic story. Yes, and to lose his life in such a manner is absolutely inhumane I would have to concur. My sorrows go out to his family and friends.Yeah and the fact that they violated the Geneva convention by making a mockery of the Iraqi prisoners is shameful. Shameful indeed.

As far as the media goes...I gotta say it's overstepping. You know, all this exposure regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse. Very disgusting to the lowest degree.
We need not have those pictures thrust so aggressively unto our faces. Enough is enough. We get the point. War svcks. The media feeds off our curiosity by showing these graphic sickening images and gaining viewer ratings in the process. It's all about greed you see. Money, power, revenge, etc., etc., etc.

Now how about that DJ who got his ass fired for airing an audio tape of Nicholas Berg's execution on a Portland radio show. Damness to him. He and his buddies got fired and rightfully so. Fvck them for being so rude and insensitive. Can you believe their dipshitism? Sheesh. Those a$$holes were laughing as they aired Nick's execution via radio stream.

What a world we live in...
 
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