Are you still discussing about the existence of a god in this age?

[Sufi]

Make a search on the internet, read some about the consclusions of Modern sciences... quantum physics, neurophysiology, hologram etc... About David Bohm, Niels Bohr, Carl Pribram, Fritjof Capra, Fred A. Wolf, etc... Read about the scientific findings WHOLENESS, ONENESS, implicate order, universal system, etc... And come to consider what it means to still debate in this age after so many scientific proof, the existence or nonexistence of a separate god, that is completely a preconceived notion in humans minds.

Will we be able to think in this age without a God out there and within ONENESS?

(I suspect some will still take it as the duality of "Oneness" and "us"... or call oneness as god!

I say Oneness, that is "One" alone, complete one, whole one, witout separation, undivided, unfragmented One... same as physicists, modern scientists explain...)

 

[what768]

What's the difference in calling IT "oneness" or "God"? Did the oneness create the universe?
If not, then what created it? If we don't know, we cannot say that God does not exist.

People can't see the stars during the day, but we still assume, and we "know" that they exist.
Just because people can't find God during these days, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

The truth is like an invisible man. If he puts on clothes, he becomes visible. If he wears tight clothes, the picture of him is much clearer.
But it does not matter how tight they are, the man still remains invisible, because the truth can only be the man himself.

 

[Katazia]

But Sufi, none of these claims to science actually point to a god do they? In fact the leading edge of scientific thinking is pointing in exactly the opposite direction - string theory is about a very large number of very tiny things that comprise everything. Far from being ONE of anything science is pointing at an infinite number and that is definitely not godlike.

 

[Sufi]

What's the difference in calling IT "oneness" or "God"? Did the oneness create the universe?
If not, then what created it? If we don't know, we cannot say that God does not exist.

People can't see the stars during the day, but we still assume, and we "know" that they exist.
Just because people can't find God during these days, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

The truth is like an invisible man. If he puts on clothes, he becomes visible. If he wears tight clothes, the picture of him is much clearer.
But it does not matter how tight they are, the man still remains invisible, because the truth can only be the man himself.

The truth is always visible, dear. It is not the truth that closes or opens. It is the observer that puts a veil on his sight.

How can you call oneness as god? whose god is it any more if there is only the oneness?

You said, Did the oneness create the universe? What do you mean by "create" here if there is oneness? Oneness must be alone to be one. What created what, and how separate are they if there is oneness? and what do you imagine as the act of creation? did you think about it or did you just learned it as a preconditioning from others? God needs to have a creation, a separate creation to be a god for them. If there are not two, then there is not a god and a separate creation... (sorry if too many questions)

 

[what768]

How can you call oneness as god? whose god is it any more if there is only the oneness?

When we realize that oneness is all there is, we "become" the same as it.

You said, Did the oneness create the universe? What do you mean by "create" here if there is oneness? Oneness must be alone to be one. What created what, and how separate are they if there is oneness?

God is everything. Oneness cannot be separated. So he sent two mirror images of himself, which reflected him. This is why there is a positive and negative in the world, but in reality these two are one.

There is an attraction between all things in this world. Because man identifies himself with his body, he searches his complementary half in this world, in another body, manifesting the opposite pole. What he does not realize is that he bears within himself his own complementary half. Just like magnets, which attract to each other, have in themselves their own negative and positive pole. Or the earth and the gravity. If the matter would give up for the attraction of the world, all things would fall back to it's origin, to paradise!

Yet the matter must resist the negative and positive from falling to oneness, because without the resistance of matter, no creation is possible. However, man is a conscious being, unlike dead matter, and he is able to connect his two negative and positive poles, consciously, by doing the right thing.

When man finds a woman he likes, he feels a familiarity, as if he had always known her. It happens because "man" has always been with "God", he still is, but he has lost the connection with his free will. But his consciousness is also that which will lead him back again.

and what do you imagine as the act of creation? did you think about it or did you just learned it as a preconditioning from others?

First I thought about creation, then I read about it.

 

[Sufi]

When we realize that oneness is all there is, we "become" the same as it.

God is everything. Oneness cannot be separated. So he sent two mirror images of himself, which reflected him. This is why there is a positive and negative in the world, but in reality these two are one.

There is an attraction between all things in this world. Because man identifies himself with his body, he searches his complementary half in this world, in another body, manifesting the opposite pole. What he does not realize is that he bears within himself his own complementary half. Just like magnets, which attract to each other, have in themselves their own negative and positive pole. Or the earth and the gravity. If the matter would give up for the attraction of the world, all things would fall back to it's origin, to paradise!

Yet the matter must resist the negative and positive from falling to oneness, because without the resistance of matter, no creation is possible. However, man is a conscious being, unlike dead matter, and he is able to connect his two negative and positive poles, consciously, by doing the right thing.

When man finds a woman he likes, he feels a familiarity, as if he had always known her. It happens because "man" has always been with "God", he still is, but he has lost the connection with his free will. But his consciousness is also that which will lead him back again.

First I thought about creation, then I read about it.

You still have a "god" in your mind

 

[Sufi]

But Sufi, none of these claims to science actually point to a god do they? In fact the leading edge of scientific thinking is pointing in exactly the opposite direction - string theory is about a very large number of very tiny things that comprise everything. Far from being ONE of anything science is pointing at an infinite number and that is definitely not godlike.

Hi Katazia,

No, they do not point to a god, they are pointing the opposite direction that there is no need to a god, as every portion of the universe already enfolds the whole same as in a hologram. Therefore the imagination of god is a result of misinterpretations of the teachings of spiritual masters who observed and informed humans the "basic wholeness".

When we accept a god, a god out there, beyond us, then we are denying our true selves, of which every portion enfolds the whole.

Beyond the acceptance of every portion enfolds the whole... infinite number is one, and one is infinite number... but there is certainly no god out there.

 

[what768]

You still have a "god" in your mind

Yeah. (of course) Hee hee. I propably don't understand exactly what you're talking about. May I ask if you believe in "God", are you religious, or not?

Edit: If you don't think God exist, then what created the universe. Is it just a hologram? What made the hologram?

 

[fadeaway humper]

Oh, I think I get it now, Sufi. You are basically a pantheist.

That's cool, rock on.

 

[Sufi]

Oh, I think I get it now, Sufi. You are basically a pantheist.

That's cool, rock on.

Not a pantheist, no!

Try to think free without putting in a compartment... what I offer you is to understand "the limitless oneness... undivided, unseparated, unnbroken wholeness. ".

 

[fadeaway humper]

Not a pantheist, no!

Try to think free without putting in a compartment... what I offer you is to understand "the limitless oneness... undivided, unseparated, unnbroken wholeness. ".

In other words, pantheism. Tehee!

 

[Sufi]

Yeah. (of course) Hee hee. I propably don't understand exactly what you're talking about. May I ask if you believe in "God", are you religious, or not?

Edit: If you don't think God exist, then what created the universe. Is it just a hologram? What made the hologram?

You should see the answer to your first question in my messages.

... a God and also a universe that God created. Why do you need to think that something was created by something else?

Think that IT IS IS and what you know as the universe is just a level that you can perceive of IT.

 

[Sufi]

In other words, pantheism. Tehee!

Pantheists believe that the universe is god. I say there is no god, and what you call as the universe is just a sectional level of existence that you can perceive of the unseparated whole ONE that IS.

I hope you can tell the difference now.

I suggest you to learn what "Allah" is as revealed by Mohammed (pbuh), without confusing with what people assume of god. Islam is completely based on knowing Allah.

 

[fadeaway humper]

Pantheists believe that the universe is god. I say there is no god, and what you call as the universe is just a sectional level of existence that you can perceive of the unseparated whole ONE that IS.

I hope you can tell the difference now.

Oh, come on. You know full well that "the universe is god" means pretty much the same as "there is no god, just the universe". As for the "sectional level of existence" thingy, it sure sounds cool, but I fail to see its relevance.

You big fat pantheist, you!

 

[Sufi]

On, come on. You know full well that "the universe is god" means pretty much the same as "there is no god, just the universe". As for the "sectional level of existence" thingy, it sure sounds cool, but I fail to see its relevance.

Looking at what you can perceive through your senses, consider what might be "more" that is unknown to you...

I suggest you to learn what "Allah" is as revealed by Mohammed (pbuh), without confusing with what people assume of god, Islam is completely based on knowing Allah.

 

[fadeaway humper]

Looking at what you can perceive through your senses, consider what might be "more" that is unknown to you...

I suggest you to learn what "Allah" is as revealed by Mohammed (pbuh), without confusing with what people assume of god, Islam is completely based on knowing Allah.

Heh. Looking at what you can perceive through your senses, consider what might NOT be "more" that is unknown to you...

Oh, and give the "Allah" thing a rest, will you? I understand that the concept fascinates you, but I have no more interest in learning what "Allah" is as revealed by Mohammed (pbuh) than learning what "Sauron" is as revealed by Tolkien (pbuh).

 

[Sufi]

Heh. Looking at what you can perceive through your senses, consider what might NOT be "more" that is unknown to you...

Oh, and give the "Allah" thing a rest, will you? I understand that the concept fascinates you, but I have no more interest in learning what "Allah" is as revealed by Mohammed (pbuh) than learning what "Sauron" is as revealed by Tolkien (pbuh).

i'm sorry. you were confused

 

[what768]

You should see the answer to your first question in my messages.

But you've once believed in Islam, right? Whatever you're talking about, it sounds like you've just changed the name God to some other words.

... a God and also a universe that God created. Why do you need to think that something was created by something else?

But I don't think it was created by something else, I just say it because it's so confusing to talk about things without separating, since we live in a "separated" world.

Think that IT IS IS and what you know as the universe is just a level that you can perceive of IT.

I know that. So can you answer the question: Who/what are "You"?

 

[fadeaway humper]

i'm sorry. you were confused

And I will always be. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Sufi]

But you've once believed in Islam, right?

I believe in Islam, the Koran and the teachings of RasulAllah.

Whatever you're talking about, it sounds like you've just changed the name God to some other words.

God is a being to be worshipped by someone else. If there is not their duality, then the concept of GOD falls. when you accept oneness, the concept god falls. you cannot call oneness as god. consideing oneness, there is no one else to call or consider him as God, any longer. But god will always be in your imagination as long as you consider yourself in duality, no matter how deep you know of the oneness.

So can you answer the question: Who/what are "You"?

I am as you called "You" is an imagination in your mind.