Body Signals Redux: Proving Mormonism

Michael 345 said:
Unfortunately it makes them vulnerable to the con and the catch all 'god moves in mysterious ways'.
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The mark of a "good" or well executed con is that the victim will resist admitting that they have been conned.

I can imagine that if you have devoted your life and good faith to something it would be most difficult to accept that you have been played for a fool.

So much easier to turn a blind eye to the problems and hope your secret fear of being conned is unfounded.

But that must be hard when you are expected to believe things that are obviously made up and rooted in superstition from a bygone era.

Good luck to all the folk who believe I hope you get what you pay for.
Alex
 
James R said:
Do you really care what I think about that? Would you trust my assessment if I gave it? Would you feel offended if, hypothetically, I were to tell you I didn't think you were particularly bright?
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If hypothetically you said i was not particularly bright i would hypothetically bawl my eyes out like a hypothetical baby.

I would also lock myself hypothetically in my room and not come out hypothetically for at least three hypothetical days.

Just as well you didn't hurt my hypothetical feelings.

But to answer your question i would not be hypothetically offended.

Humpty Dumpty being a hypothetical person keeps his hypothetical mouth shut.
Poe hypothetically does the same.

:)
 
James R said:
Speaking personally, it annoys me that some non-believers are ready to dismiss virtually the whole of religion without bothering to learn about it or truly considering what it has to teach
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I suspect I must be very annoying however I do not dismiss the positive things generally religion presents.
I like to think my morals would make Jesus happy.
However just because religion delivers a way to live I find it annoying that it is founded upon "facts" which really are not facts.

No matter how much I learn about religion it will not help me to believe there exists a mythical being such as most religions place at the center of their belief.

Religion is becoming less important and the problem will be for the future is to provide a reason for morality other than pleasing a mythical entity.
That will be a challenge such that if I was charged with holding humanity together I would not do away with religion.
I can see the good done as a result of religion but that does not help me accept the premise that God is real.
Alex
 
James R said:
Speaking personally, it annoys me that some non-believers are ready to dismiss virtually the whole of religion without bothering to learn about it or truly considering what it has to teach

learn about it

Did that

without bothering

Bothered

considering what it has to teach

Considered that.

Didn't like any of it.

Oh wait it did teach me a few things
  1. Think for yourself
  2. No matter how smart and official some people look with important sounding titles they can be stupid
  3. The same people have trouble giving answers to kids questions so they make things up
  4. Holy water comes from the council hall tap
  5. I was being watched all the time and the bloke in the sky had a book on everything I did
  6. I would burn forever if I played with myself
Speaking personally what pisses me off are believers who constantly tell me to believe or I won't be saved

Their ability to dismiss virtually the whole of science

And they are ready to dismiss believers as sinners without knowing anything about our lifestyle.
 
Michael 345 said:
As you must be aware by now you are asking me to prove a negative.
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I'm not asking you to prove anything.
I'm trying to engage you in a discussion by asking you to give an explanation for your claim.

Michael 345 said:
I will concede that any angels who do exist are sipping tea from Russell's teapot before going for unicorn ridding lessons.
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So the whole thing is just a joke to you?
It's not a joke to Billy Baxter. At least have the decency to explain why you claim what you claim, instead of reducing everything to your idea of a joke.

jan.
 
spidergoat said:
It's not. It's the same as saying, "impossible things are impossible". All supernatural beings are by definition impossible by any natural law, which is why they are called supernatural.
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It's only supernatural until it is understood, then it is natural.

spidergoat said:
Can someone possibly make a thing that could fool you into thinking it's an angel? Probably. But it would still certainly be a product of natural forces.
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If somethin
g is an angel, then it is a angel. Do you agree?
If such a being is an impossibility, then an explanation should ensue.

jan.
 
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Xelasnave.1947 said:
Jan it would be much simply for you to explain why angels are possible.
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I haven't made any claims.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I think if I said unicorns are possible I could not ask you to establish they are impossible before I spoke about my unicorn.
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But if I did claim they are impossible, I would need to explain why, or my claim would be empty.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
For my part they are mythical and there is no need to discuss mythical beings unless of course someone offers evidence to establish their existence.
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So what you mean is that you don't believe they exist, which is different from claiming they are impossible.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
Hi Jan.
What do you think I think?
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I don't know, which is why I'm asking. :rolleyes:

Xelasnave.1947 said:
If you have any evidence that may be relevant to any position you may wish to take please present it.
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It may be that the evidence requires a different level of conscious awareness, than basic nuts and bolts.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I will be reasonable and look at all and any evidence.
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You're being facetious because you know that nuts and bolts will not be productive in deciding if angels exist. I take it you believe William Shakespeare actually existed. What can you provide as evidence.

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
I haven't made any claims.
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Fair enough I assumed you could tell me a version, properties, what they are ...
It probably like all things definitions should be explored.
I need to know what I am saying does not exist a mental picture.
I certainly have a vision of what an angle could look like only from the various presentations of angles in movies.
Jan Ardena said:
But if I did claim they are impossible, I would need to explain why, or my claim would be empty.
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Well certainly I can not argue for a 100% certainly.
There is always room for the impossible suddenly appearing in my world but I don't think I will be surprised.
A lady in hospital told me in effect she thought that I was an angel sent to cheer her up and get her back on track, she seemed convinced so she liked the pep talk I could not say it was not true so she could enjoy things.

It was strange.
Jan Ardena said:
I take it you believe William Shakespeare actually existed. What can you provide as evidence.
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Yes you have a point.
But I haven't thought about Shakespeare no evidence he does not exist, I can leave him out I don't care.
Who knows you can say.
Angels may be out there.
Alex
 
Jan Ardena said:
I'm not asking you to prove anything.
I'm trying to engage you in a discussion by asking you to give an explanation for your claim.
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Angels fall into a supernatural group.

EVERYTHING in the universe is natural.

It might be not understand or strange or weird etc etc but it is natural.

Hence it impossible for anything supernatural to exist.

Hence my conclusion, taking into account the evidence, leaving no stone unturned, carefully weighing up all the facts, making no rush to judgement, putting two and two together I (hold your breath) find angels being of the supernatural class also come under impossible to exist grouping.

I repeat my concession below (and you must admit it is quite a concession when you think about it)

I will concede that any angels who do exist are sipping tea from Russell's teapot before going for unicorn ridding lessons.

Jan Ardena said:
So the whole thing is just a joke to you?
It's not a joke to Billy Baxter. At least have the decency to explain why you claim what you claim, instead of reducing everything to your idea of a joke.
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.... whole thing...joke.... Yes.

Billy seems to understand what is not a joke to him may very well be a joke to others. I think Billy gets it. Hi Billy.

Have I been decent? Please don't keep me in suspense as to my decency.

Have I explained? Please etc etc.

Have I reduced? Please tell me I have reduced. I live to reduce.

A hundred :)

Hope that's enough to show I am sincere.

:)

P S Do I want to engage in a discussion about impossible mythical beings?

No.

Seriously no.
 
Jan Ardena said:
On the contrary. Angels, or an angel, lies at the heart of the development of the Mormon religion.

Jan.
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That's not the topic of this thread. The topic is how god uses body signals to communicate with us. The discussion of angels is just thread drift.
 
Billy Baxter said:
Satan was once an angel in authority before he rebelled against God and became the devil.
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I thought angels and heaven were perfect.

So what pissed Mr Devil off he got thrown out?

What was his angel name?

Didn't a few others go with him?

Do you know how many?

Had god already created hell or was hell made after Mr Devil was kicked out?

And one last question was he kicked out or did he resign so to speak ?

:)
 
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