Christian and Sex
- Thread starter Saint
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Scriptures are meant to be guidelines. They were especially efficient for the times:
It benefits a woman not to have sex before marriage because if she gets pregnant she has no responsible male.
It benefits a woman not to have sex before marriage because if she gets pregnant she has no responsible male.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). What is your point? Do you expect Christians to be perfect?
You consider premarital sex a "fundamental" moral requirement?
What importance is there in not having pre-marital sex? What's the difference if you sleep with someone that you intend to marry and who you love and have been with for a long time?
At least...what importance is there in not having premarital sex...so much so that it is a moral requirement?
At least...what importance is there in not having premarital sex...so much so that it is a moral requirement?
But do you believe it? What good does it serve?
I'm sure that your pastor is the be-all, end-all of biblical interpretations, too.
Hmm...I'm sure there are many, many people who've had sex before marriage and have no diseases. *Raises hand*.
That's not a very good purpose. There is no moral base to it!
That's not a very good purpose. There is no moral base to it!
Christians feel that sex is a taboo subject which should be highly regulated. The problem is they are as sexual as everyone else. As long as they go through the motions of being pious, they can feel forgiven for being inherently "bad". This idea is exemplified in the "fall" myth, in which the desire for sex was the single most destructive action in all of humanity and which caused our ejection from eden. So, they can be as sexual as anyone else, as long as they hate themselves for it. I think it was a method the church used to regulate social relations, so that only under their authority via a religious marriage can sex be allowed (presumably only between members of the same religion, opposite sex, and same race).
Christians aren't hypocrites for having sex, just human.
Christians aren't hypocrites for having sex, just human.
Spidergoat,
Where are you getting this stuff from????? Let me guess...the modern day pharisees???? Sex may be a taboo subject within organized religion, but it's not with God. We've talked about it at length and He's taught me a lot about it...that is, the law regarding it and the purpose of it, from a relationship standpoint, not technique necessarily.
God created us and sex was His idea in the first place. God has no problem with sex....people do. God wants us to be happy...He loves us. And sex is probably the greatest gift He's given us aside from His Son. It's just a shame when people take this glorious gift and reduce it down to the equivalent of taking a shit.
And for crying out loud people, you don't have to be a flippin' rocket scientist to see the undesirable consequences of screwing around in or outside marriage. Because then you have the problems caused by people getting married for all the wrong reasons in the first place. I mean, sins are not isolated like that....they're systemic and compounding. Sin isn't just an act, it's a condition, and it's one that we're stuck with in this life. It's like having a birth defect....being handicapped...it's not going to go away by following a bunch of rules. You can teach a handicapped person how to have sex, but they will still be handicapped.
The whole premise of the faith is that God has an ideal...being a sinless eternal existence for us....AND THIS LIFE IS NOT IT. So who gives a shit if so and so has sex before they're married? We're so systemically far from perfect right now, that to pick out one little "rule" to focus on is stupid. God doesn't want you to do anything that you don't want to do or believe anything that you don't understand. With God, it's not about following rules, it's about coming to know Him through a personal relationship with Him. Only then can you truly learn from Him and come to understand His law in relation to your life and experience.
Where are you getting this stuff from????? Let me guess...the modern day pharisees???? Sex may be a taboo subject within organized religion, but it's not with God. We've talked about it at length and He's taught me a lot about it...that is, the law regarding it and the purpose of it, from a relationship standpoint, not technique necessarily.
God created us and sex was His idea in the first place. God has no problem with sex....people do. God wants us to be happy...He loves us. And sex is probably the greatest gift He's given us aside from His Son. It's just a shame when people take this glorious gift and reduce it down to the equivalent of taking a shit.
And for crying out loud people, you don't have to be a flippin' rocket scientist to see the undesirable consequences of screwing around in or outside marriage. Because then you have the problems caused by people getting married for all the wrong reasons in the first place. I mean, sins are not isolated like that....they're systemic and compounding. Sin isn't just an act, it's a condition, and it's one that we're stuck with in this life. It's like having a birth defect....being handicapped...it's not going to go away by following a bunch of rules. You can teach a handicapped person how to have sex, but they will still be handicapped.
The whole premise of the faith is that God has an ideal...being a sinless eternal existence for us....AND THIS LIFE IS NOT IT. So who gives a shit if so and so has sex before they're married? We're so systemically far from perfect right now, that to pick out one little "rule" to focus on is stupid. God doesn't want you to do anything that you don't want to do or believe anything that you don't understand. With God, it's not about following rules, it's about coming to know Him through a personal relationship with Him. Only then can you truly learn from Him and come to understand His law in relation to your life and experience.
If God has no problem with sex, Lori, why is it that the Wisdom gained from the Tree of Knowledge made Adam and Eve ashamed of their nakedness? Underlying message? According to the Bible, wisdom says our nakedness is cause for shame.
You know, it's sex and orgasms. How could Christians, or anybody else, call it wisdom to start that cycle of shame?
Why be ashamed? Why not look at the other and say, "Oh, this is gonna be fun."
How could anyone get it so wrong as the Christians? And with such horrifying consequences?
And I'm aware there's some cave-dwelling, separatist Jewish monk responsible for writing down Genesis, but hey, there's only 13 million or so Jews left in the world, so perhaps they better throw out the shame of Genesis and start boffing to reinforce their numbers.
Imagine the day when the stereotypical Jew is expected to be self-assured, sexy as hell, and able to go all night.
Imagine the day when stereotypes of Christians no longer center on the blithering idiocy of public theology. The thing is that Christians are fully capable of making each other feel as if they're touched by the Lord. Fully capable of making each other scream hosannas to God.
But there's that nakedness. It's shameful, you know. Because, as we see in the Bible, Adam and Eve covered themselves up after they got wisdom because the wise know that nakedness is cause for shame.
Christians and sexuality is a theological and doctrinal tragedy of human proportions. I once read a whacked theory that blamed the victims of the Inquisitions, claiming their confessions were part of a sick, sexually-driven (and sublimated) game. That's right, the Christians who carried out the Inquisitions are to be excused because they were confused by the sexual fantasies of the people they killed and tortured. As crazy as it sounds, however, there's a strong possibility that the theory has some credibility. In the modern period, we at least have psychology, psychiatry, and other sciences to help us understand sexuality. But, you know, faithful Christians confessing to witchcraft under the effect of torture, hoping to be burned at the stake? Yes, I suppose that bizarre theory gains some credibility when we pause and wonder about Christians and the shame of nakedness.
Robyn Hitchcock sang, "God finds you naked and He leaves you dying. What happens in between is up to you." I love that line, because how is the state in which you are delivered to the world with God's blessing unacceptable?
You know, it's sex and orgasms. How could Christians, or anybody else, call it wisdom to start that cycle of shame?
Why be ashamed? Why not look at the other and say, "Oh, this is gonna be fun."
How could anyone get it so wrong as the Christians? And with such horrifying consequences?
And I'm aware there's some cave-dwelling, separatist Jewish monk responsible for writing down Genesis, but hey, there's only 13 million or so Jews left in the world, so perhaps they better throw out the shame of Genesis and start boffing to reinforce their numbers.
Imagine the day when the stereotypical Jew is expected to be self-assured, sexy as hell, and able to go all night.
Imagine the day when stereotypes of Christians no longer center on the blithering idiocy of public theology. The thing is that Christians are fully capable of making each other feel as if they're touched by the Lord. Fully capable of making each other scream hosannas to God.
But there's that nakedness. It's shameful, you know. Because, as we see in the Bible, Adam and Eve covered themselves up after they got wisdom because the wise know that nakedness is cause for shame.
Christians and sexuality is a theological and doctrinal tragedy of human proportions. I once read a whacked theory that blamed the victims of the Inquisitions, claiming their confessions were part of a sick, sexually-driven (and sublimated) game. That's right, the Christians who carried out the Inquisitions are to be excused because they were confused by the sexual fantasies of the people they killed and tortured. As crazy as it sounds, however, there's a strong possibility that the theory has some credibility. In the modern period, we at least have psychology, psychiatry, and other sciences to help us understand sexuality. But, you know, faithful Christians confessing to witchcraft under the effect of torture, hoping to be burned at the stake? Yes, I suppose that bizarre theory gains some credibility when we pause and wonder about Christians and the shame of nakedness.
Robyn Hitchcock sang, "God finds you naked and He leaves you dying. What happens in between is up to you." I love that line, because how is the state in which you are delivered to the world with God's blessing unacceptable?
Hi Tiassa,
First of all, you don't have to be naked to have sex. It could have more to do with vanity than anything.
Secondly, it wasn't wisdom or knowledge that caused their shame, it was caused by a voluntary genetic alteration of their flesh, which for them and all of us turned out to be quite a disappointment.
And finally, not everyone who attests to being a Christian is born again. You get knowledge and understanding by being born again....through this relationship with God. That's what the Bible says, and that's what I've experienced in my life. I'm born again, don't mind being naked at all, and think that sex is a great gift from God. I think that you're confusing Christians with people who are just uptight and perverted. You don't have to be a Christian to be that way, just ignorant.
First of all, you don't have to be naked to have sex. It could have more to do with vanity than anything.
Secondly, it wasn't wisdom or knowledge that caused their shame, it was caused by a voluntary genetic alteration of their flesh, which for them and all of us turned out to be quite a disappointment.
And finally, not everyone who attests to being a Christian is born again. You get knowledge and understanding by being born again....through this relationship with God. That's what the Bible says, and that's what I've experienced in my life. I'm born again, don't mind being naked at all, and think that sex is a great gift from God. I think that you're confusing Christians with people who are just uptight and perverted. You don't have to be a Christian to be that way, just ignorant.
Lori, you may the exception, but Christianity is responsible for perverting sex, and, I would go as far as to say, perverting human nature. Humans are naturally perfect, it is our inhereted cultural institutions that are flawed.
Because of their incorrect assumptions about what god wants us to do.
It's a shame when you consider the glory of taking a shit to be such a worthless activity. Sex is glorious, taking a shit is also glorious. Sex is something that should be done at least as often as taking a shit, probably more often. Rarity doesn't make it any more holy. When you falsely consider some things to be holy, that makes other things not. Everything is holy, which is another way of saying nothing is holy.
It used to be that screwing around only led to more children that the tribe would take care of collectively. The only bad consequences of screwing around stem from the conditions that religion has created, for example the horrible thing called "family values". The condition that created this kind of patriarchal religion is the rise of agriculture. Agriculture led to accumulation of wealth, thus inheritence, thus concern for male lines of descent, thus the taboo against screwing around. The religion was created around these pre-existing conditions. Taboos against sex before marriage are intended to control the hierarchical social structure. Having family values also means that anyone not in your family is considered less worthy of protection, except in a reluctant charity kind of way. The consequence of this is a society where it's everyone for themselves, and if you have a baby out of "wed-lock", you are screwed, cause there is no longer any tribe to help take care of it.
Wrong reasons, such as... wanting to get married, which is a pressure that the church creates. You can't have sex before marriage, so the sexual tension builds up to the point that dammit I NEED TO GET FUCKING MARRIED TO SOMEONE -ANYONE- OR I'M GONNA BURST!
That's the kind of mythology on which the church depends. As long as you feel you are less than perfect, you will accept the authority of an institution that claims to approach perfection. It a con. You are a devine being, that's the real gospel as taught by Jesus.
You can't change your genes voluntarily. The fall myth is really about people getting smart, perhaps the rise of language, or the discovery of psychedelic plants. It's about how, in coming up with "solutions", (ideas, inventions, religions, etc...) we actually create more problems for ourselves.
Scripture = Truth.DarkEyedBeauty said:
And for the record anybody is allowed to screw before marriage.
After marriage is a different story. Banging (or as little as kissing) somebody other than your spouse is illegal, automatically ends the marriage, and is punishable. Both individuals that participated in the adultery belong behind bars.
If you are not going to follow the proper marriage procedures, the whole point of matrimony being recognized under law is just as silly as birthday parties being recognized under law.
The law is so crooked, that they even recognize Christmas day as an official national holiday. If you are going to recognize a Christian holiday under law along with all the grubby atheist holidays, you might as well recognize Holy Week/easter.
The following should be recognized as well: Valentines Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Halloween, and April Fools Day.
Sure cool skill, I can agree that you're a bad christian if you engage in pre-marital sex. You're simply not following the rules. Then again, they all just want to be saved with minimal effort on their part.