Climate Change Control Using Rock Dust

[exchemist]

Not sure you are clear on how all this works here.

Mining takes stuff out of the ground. Then, if the tailings/overburden is not used, it is put back into the ground. It's not contaminated somehow and then put back. It's just put back.

So the only "toxic subtances" we are putting back are the same "toxic substances" that were there to begin with. In fact, if you are mining (for example) copper, the stuff you put back is LESS toxic because you removed the most 'contaminated' (i.e. most metal bearing) layers.


I did not make that argument. Perhaps you were referring to someone else?

Yes it is basalt overburden they are talking about, rather than tailings. Tailings would tend to have a lot more heavy metals of course - and would not be basalt, generally speaking.

The paper also mentions that by raising the pH of the soil, this procedure can actually reduce the mobility of some hazardous elements, such as arsenic.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

particle weight density in water
harmonic cadence to average rain impact frequency(depth of settlement)
metal content & types
pre extraction leeching of surface activity compound & quantity

food cycle contaminant list in animal organs including biological loading(organ loading/waste) as mentioned above PH level change to effect parasites & pasture bacteria

There is no shortage of hacks trying to make a fast dollar from selling mining waste to some type of cost reducing dumping process.

grazing pasture goes directly to human baby milk infant formula
so the reality of the hard science needs is quite apparent for those whos business it is to ensure the top quality price of their product, AND that it doesn't kill their customers.

a "rough guess" when it comes to biological loading of things into the food chain(like mercury in sharks, imagine loading mercury into baby infant formula or the fat on peoples steak and what they use for cooking & baking) doesn't really fix the organ failure or disease it puts into babys children or adults

as much as vegans may complain about the meat & dairy industry it is a key pillar of global food & provides the core nutrition for the worlds human babys

taking a vague
off handed & ignorant approach to that is not going to play well for any real economic process

unless your one of the melamine crew
then a Chinese firing squad is waiting for you.

and .. from the farmers who i have met who have generations farming, if you faked some type of chemical to them that they put into their product that endangered the buyers and consumers
they would probably come for you.
that would be dead certain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

On 17 September 2008, Health Minister Chen Zhu stated tainted milk formula had "sickened more than 6,200 children, and that more than 1,300 others, mostly newborns, remain hospitalized with 158 suffering from acute kidney failure".[19] By 23 September, about 54,000 children were reported to be sick and four had died.[20] An additional 10,000 cases were reported from the provinces by 27 September. A World Health Organization official said 82% of the children made ill were 2 years of age or below.[21] The Hong Kong Centre for Food Safety said that 99 percent of the victims were aged under 3 years.[22] Ten Hong Kong children were diagnosed with kidney problems,[23] at least four cases were detected in Macau,[24] and six in Taiwan.[25] Non-human casualties included a lion cub and two baby orangutans which had been fed Sanlu infant formula at Hangzhou Zoo.[26]

The government said on 8 October it would no longer issue updated figures "because it is not an infectious disease, so it's not absolutely necessary for us to announce it to the public".[27] Reuters compiled figures reported by local media across the country, and said the toll stood at nearly 94,000 at the end of September, excluding municipalities. Notably, 13,459 children had been affected in Gansu, Reuters quoted Xinhua saying Henan had reported over 30,000 cases, and Hebei also had nearly 16,000 cases.[28]

In late October, the government announced health officials had surveyed 300,000 Beijing families with children less than 3 years old. It disclosed approximately 74,000 families had a child who had been fed melamine-tainted milk, but did not reveal how many of those children had fallen ill as a result.[29]

if the particle size & molecular weight is a certain weight
maybe small enough to be used in the spreaders
it may also(worst case scenario) be also the right size weight & density to suspend its self at a certain depth level to create a layer of the substance
that layer would be disproportionately high in what ever content it had & begin to dominate the pasture soil layer by creating a new layer or allowing different types of mold to grow on top of
or underneath
it may trap more moisture, maybe less

thus a burying measure
and suspension measure
must be included for different types of pasture composition & top soil
matched against any burrowing basic behavior with rain
OBVIOUSLY combined with this it is going to effect what effectiveness fertilization is going to have
will it mix undesirably with herbicides and increase run off leeching
or reduce % effectiveness range ?


IF it reacts to some other fertaliser or spray & resides in growth patches
cows can get a liking for it
so every time you put the herd in the paddock one or 2 cows may run for patches and eat disproportionate amounts of certain substances
Like children being let into a mall where all the candy shops are open and free
but some candy has high amounts of arsenic
some lead
some chromium
some aluminum
some iron
some calcium
etc etc

once it passes the micro biologist/zoologist(biological science animal scientists)
it is then secretly trialed in a monitored place where none of the animals or products are put into markets
well away from spoilt little rich kids vegan terrorism fantasies

 

[RainbowSingularity]

unless your one of the melamine crew

not meaning you personally
meaning "you" as the third person

 

[RainbowSingularity]

that can occur in intensive farming.

 

[iceaura]

You want to clean the environment from excess CO2 by introducing more manmade chemicals into the environment?

They aren't manmade chemicals. Rocks are seldom manmade objects.

Most serious gardeners I know
(I only know "organic" gardeners - nobody in my circles does put-and-take chemical gardening, or kills the insects in their garden with stuff that poisons people, or plants nicotinoid-treated seeds, or any of that crap. They are all into dirt - they are dirt farmers, literally; the veggies and stuff are side effects)
already incorporate rock "dust" of various kinds into their soil. You can buy it in bulk from many organic gardening supply outlets. https://www.gardeners.com/buy/greensand-fertilizer/07-207.html.

That said, a lot of hard rock mining waste (including overburden) is poisonous - and mining companies have no ethics or morals when it comes to handling it. This proposal would have to be heavily and rigidly regulated, and the mining companies involved continuously and conscientiously forced - at gunpoint, under threat of criminal prosecution of individual executives - to obey those regulations while under constant monitoring and surveillance by third parties they are permanently forbidden to hire, pay, negotiate with, or have any dealings whatsoever with other than ensuring their access to the jobsite.

If that is not possible, or not funded, or not carefully and openly arranged, or not publicly documented in ways any citizen can inspect for themselves, this proposal will - with near certainty - result in the long term poisoning of extensive areas of agricultural land and associated aquifers.
- - - -

How many times have you dug up and replaced the dirt around your house? There's MERCURY in that dirt don't ya know!

And - often - seriously injurious levels of lead, fire-retardant chemicals, leachate from plastics, and so forth. The dirt around many people's houses is seriously hazardous to adults even, let alone children. That's from allowing corporations to do things like this in the past.

The habitual reflex of deflecting environmental concerns into discussions of some people's foolishness and ignorance,

of arguing against the weakest rather than the strongest objections to some dubious (or even flat out damaging and harmful) proposal from profiteering businessmen hiding behind their limited liability corporate avatar, their well-paid "scientist" representatives, their carefully wording marketing department, their top-flight and diligent legal team, and so forth -

has over the years resulted in a great deal of serious harm done to a great many people for the less serious profit or benefit of a relative few;

who by odd coincidence are often found to have paid for and otherwise abetted the media distribution of those deflections and misleading arguments (including the provision of the examples of foolishness, sifted from the general discussion and presented as representative of the other side in a bothsides argument.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

That said, a lot of hard rock mining waste (including overburden) is poisonous

...
and the fossil fuel & pollution that is created to dig it up, and then truck it hundreds of miles & then pay for more fossil fuel to off load it & store it & then more fossil fuel to then spread it

it would need to have exponential factors of Co2 absorption to compensate
or off set nitrogen run off
and off set nitrogen purchase

unfortunately there is no shortage of ponsy sales men looking to turn a quick million dollars
more soo alt right political associates looking to scam a few million in government funding grant money
American is the champion of such things with all their tax free megga church corporate tax free millionaires and their luxury goods life styles

all those megga church fascists paying no tax but using all the emergency services and social services for free
= sick perverts playing joseph gobbels wanna-be games bribing alt right politicians

under threat of criminal prosecution

already see american regulators are bribed and paid off by alt right political funding people
so that is completely useless
you can see the current system is completely useless
the only power to prevent it
is in the ability to grant the license to do so
but the licensing process is also corrupt and the alt right simply pay legal bribes to the politicians to make new laws

so its all a fairly theoretical debate
but good for those other countrys with actual morals and proper systems

this current debate will all be about if the alt right & their cronies can get away with this ponsy scheme without being locked up in years of legal battles that they will have to buy (legally) more politicians to get them to simply change the law so they dont get pinned with anything.

once it is dmped on private land
the toxic waste cost & pollution becomes legally the responsibility of the farmer
and the farmer will also be held accountable legally and criminally for the poisoning of people via the contaminated meat & vegetables

so they are assuming it comes with a get-out-of-jail-free card

We are, of course. The fairest

soo please excuse any air of cynicism you may read in my responses

who gets the get-out-of-jail-free-card ?

 

[billvon]

And - often - seriously injurious levels of lead, fire-retardant chemicals, leachate from plastics, and so forth. The dirt around many people's houses is seriously hazardous to adults even, let alone children. That's from allowing corporations to do things like this in the past.

In a few cases, true.

In most cases, it is full of lead, cadmium, uranium, mercury and thorium - and is still perfectly safe. Those elements are in every cubic yard of dirt in the US. Even the most pristine, untouched wilderness.

A fool will hear that they found some amount of mercury in his dirt and demand it all be dug out at huge cost and environmental damage - and then be replaced by dirt with just as much mercury.
A wise man will hear that they found some amount of mercury in his dirt - and ask "how much?"

 

[iceaura]

In a few cases, true.

In entire neighborhoods of every large city in the US, afflicting millions of people - a disproportionate number of them children.

A wise man will hear that they found some amount of mercury in his dirt - and ask "how much?"

And lead, leachate from plastics, etc etc etc.
And when they find out how much, they will do something about it - beginning with imposing and enforcing rigidly restrictive regulations and diligent oversight on the corporate entities that stand to profit from poisoning millions of American citizens.

A fool will hear that they found some amount of mercury in his dirt and demand it all be dug out at huge cost and environmental damage - and then be replaced by dirt with just as much mercury.

Again: deflecting the discussion into an irrelevant criticism of fools wastes everybody's time and furthers the interests of the bad guys. The foolishness of some of those wary of this proposal is no evidence of its soundness - the analysis and criticism from the wise would be the focus of attention of a responsible advocate.

We can all stipulate to the existence of fools - now back to the matter at hand: this proposal, and what will happen if it is enacted without the necessary oversight and control of the mining corporations involved.

For one thing: given the power and amorality of these mining corporations, given their track record, the necessary oversight and diligence of control will likely be difficult and expensive. That's a factor, especially when we haven't established who's paying for what.

 

[exchemist]

In entire neighborhoods of every large city in the US, afflicting millions of people - a disproportionate number of them children.

And lead, leachate from plastics, etc etc etc.
And when they find out how much, they will do something about it - beginning with imposing and enforcing rigidly restrictive regulations and diligent oversight on the corporate entities that stand to profit from poisoning millions of American citizens.

Again: deflecting the discussion into an irrelevant criticism of fools wastes everybody's time and furthers the interests of the bad guys. The foolishness of some of those wary of this proposal is no evidence of its soundness - the analysis and criticism from the wise would be the focus of attention of a responsible advocate.

We can all stipulate to the existence of fools - now back to the matter at hand: this proposal, and what will happen if it is enacted without the necessary oversight and control of the mining corporations involved.

For one thing: given the power and amorality of these mining corporations, given their track record, the necessary oversight and diligence of control will likely be difficult and expensive. That's a factor, especially when we haven't established who's paying for what.

Getting back to the subject of the thread, prevention of dangerous levels of heavy metals in rock dust for this new application should be perfectly simple to achieve. Since it has to be ground into dust by a manufacturing process, all one needs is a system of regulation of that process, including chemical analysis of every batch, as is quite normal in a vast range of products in chemical industry today. The costs would be trivial, as the analysis is quite standard.

There would no no question of mines being encouraged to dump material directly onto farmland, obviously.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

We can all stipulate

possible iron poisoning in the dairy heard
leading to milk being far to high in iron & resulting in babys getting kidney disease ?

unless it is properly tested before it is sold to market.
in which case it will be dumped and be in the front pages and farmers will be worried about international brand image and launch massive liable suites for brand damage
ferrous oxide toxic build up in organs is quite undesirable
it would poison the dairy heard and they are quite expensive
the animal rights people would have a field day
the anti meat patrol would launch dairy farm invasions and possibly try and dump milk
farmers might end up shooting some of them

not a good look for mining who are supposed to be winning the hearts and minds of common folk

There would no no question of mines being encouraged to dump material directly onto farmland, obviously.

direct dumping would be a criminal offense and risk being prosecuted under the terrorism act

 

[billvon]

In entire neighborhoods of every large city in the US, afflicting millions of people - a disproportionate number of them children.

O the children won't someone please think of the children?

Yes, there are places that is true. And in the vast majority of places it is not.

Again: deflecting the discussion into an irrelevant criticism of fools wastes everybody's time and furthers the interests of the bad guys.

You have this belief that all narratives must be distorted so that at no time, ever, can a "bad guy" read something that comforts him.

I do not agree with this approach. The fact is that all dirt in the US (the world actually) contains radioactive materials and heavy metals. Suppressing that information lest some "bad guy" use it in a nefarious way leads to panic - and often to environmentally damaging decisions.

this proposal, and what will happen if it is enacted without the necessary oversight and control of the mining corporations involved.

No one is suggesting that it be done without oversight and control. That would be a strawman argument.

 

[billvon]

Getting back to the subject of the thread, prevention of dangerous levels of heavy metals in rock dust for this new application should be perfectly simple to achieve. Since it has to be ground into dust by a manufacturing process, all one needs is a system of regulation of that process, including chemical analysis of every batch, as is quite normal in a vast range of products in chemical industry today. The costs would be trivial, as the analysis is quite standard.

Agreed. And since it represents a way for a mining company to dispose of tailings - and because they have a lot of it to choose from - mining companies are incentivized to provide it.

 

[exchemist]

Agreed. And since it represents a way for a mining company to dispose of tailings - and because they have a lot of it to choose from - mining companies are incentivized to provide it.

Yes, though I think I would want another analysis run on each production batch of dust coming out of the mill as well, to be sure. One would then hold the mill responsible for the quality of its rock dust, against a spec with max ppm of the various heavy metals, and that would ensure the mill would insist on getting analysis done on the material being supplied to it by the mines, steelworks etc.

 

[Write4U]

They aren't manmade chemicals. Rocks are seldom manmade objects.

LOL, of course. But that is not what I said.
The chemicals used to process mined materials are and they are usually recycled back into the soil.

Let me put it this way. Why does the mining industries have immunity from many EPA regulations? The official explanation is that enforcing EPA regulations on mining industry would make the cost of extraction prohibitive. Therefore, let's just do away with the regulation, easy.

What is Mineral Mining?

Mine operators extract minerals from underground mines, surface mines and quarries using machinery and explosives. Some extraction processes, such as stone quarries, may use large quantities of water. After extraction, many types of raw minerals are then subject to processes such as crushing, milling, washing and chemical treatments.

Wastewater is generated during mineral processing (e.g., stone cutting, wash water, scrubber water), from equipment cooling, from mine dewatering, and from stormwater runoff at mines and processing plants.

https://www.epa.gov/eg/mineral-mining-and-processing-effluent-guidelines

 

[RainbowSingularity]

is not what I

they are probably hoping that all farming will be owned by 1 single corporate by then and the entire economy runs like a communist concentration camp

The mining companies will own the baby milk formula company & the break fast cereal company's
& all working class breakfast cereal will be made from a single crop of corn
flavoured with mining tailings & mind control drugs to keep the people from demanding their 2nd amendment tax free status(why are they not demanding universal health care instead of machine guns for teenagers in shopping malls)
but that is called "american family values"

strange culture

 

[iceaura]

The chemicals used to process mined materials are and they are usually recycled back into the soil.

The proposal here involves unprocessed, un"mined" rock.
It is not man made.

There would no no question of mines being encouraged to dump material directly onto farmland, obviously.

There is that question, exactly that question. It's front and center.
The means, methods, and resources necessary to prevent mining corporations from doing that will be expensive and require expert diligence over many years. That means, in the US, they have to be set up and running in advance - before the first truckload of rock hits the first field.
- - - -

Yes, there are places that is true. And in the vast majority of places it is not.

Nay, not so, but far otherwise, as the snake said.
False, in other words, at least if by "places" you are not dodging but instead responding to the reference you claim to be responding to. (Major cities in the US)

The situation I described is true of large neighborhoods in almost every midsized and larger American city. The neighborhoods it is true of are disproportionately populated by children. There is no simple majority of metropolitan areas not so afflicted, let alone a "vast" one, and this is not hidden or obscure knowledge - it's well and frequently documented fact for decades now.

O the children won't someone please think of the children?

Troll shit. Next step is rubbing it in your hair - framing future posts as if that bs you posted (claiming an emotional appeal to the irrational, rather than a coldblooded and entirely accurate description of a bad situation or event) were the reality involved, and basing personal attack on that presumption.

One of the most common fallback responses of the American "conservative", when confronted with an inconvenient physical fact of any kind. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/06/20/corey-lewandowski-wah-wah-fox-news-immigration/

It's just noise, at first - but they don't stop on their own. Eventually, if they are not slapped down and disrespected for such behavior, those repeated memes dominate the entire communications bandwidth of US political discussion.

And that's how we ended up with the climate change discussion we have (or were having, before Covid) , on the major media, during campaign season, in the US.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Let me put it this way. Why does the mining industries have immunity from many EPA regulations? The official explanation is that enforcing EPA regulations on mining industry would make the cost of extraction prohibitive. Therefore, let's just do away with the regulation, easy.

Yes but what if aliens attacked?

The aliens mite even be even immune to fire. RainbowSingularity, first nuanced at this.

 

[billvon]

Troll shit.

I agree. The "o the poor children" appeal to emotion is a big steaming pile of shit. So we'll ignore it.

Next step is rubbing it in your hair

Or you could rub it in your hair! Whatever you are into.

One of the most common fallback responses of the American "conservative", when confronted with an inconvenient physical fact of any kind.

Cool. If you think I'm a conservative I must be fairly liberal.

And that's how we ended up with the climate change discussion we have (or were having, before Covid) , on the major media, during campaign season, in the US.

No, we ended up with steaming piles of emotional BS that your kind prefer.

"We will all be freezing in the dark! Do you want your children to freeze in the dark? Won't someone please think of the children!"
"Do you really want your children to grow up in Al Gore's communist state?"

Don't like those piles of shit? Don't fling them. (Or rub them in your hair and let the smell linger - if, again, that's what you are into.)

 

[Write4U]

Yes but what if aliens attacked?

The aliens mite even be even immune to fire. RainbowSingularity, first nuanced at this.

Should we make the earth welcome to aliens?
And suppose they eat rocks? The aliens would make us mine all the rocks we put back into the ground......

 

[exchemist]

The proposal here involves unprocessed, un"mined" rock.
It is not man made.

There is that question, exactly that question. It's front and center.
The means, methods, and resources necessary to prevent mining corporations from doing that will be expensive and require expert diligence over many years. That means, in the US, they have to be set up and running in advance - before the first truckload of rock hits the first field.
- - - -

Your politics seem to be blinding you to the science (Seems to be all the rage in the USA at the moment - and I use the term rage advisedly ).

This is rock dust. It is not "unprocessed". It has to be made by a manufacturing (grinding ) process, from slag or basalt mine overburden. That means it would be the product of a mill, not a mine.

Any commercial operation would require the mill to test the incoming material, grind it to dust, test the batches of dust produced (for heavy metals, other likely contaminants, and, I expect, particle size distribution, to make sure it weathers properly), bag it in a form convenient for agriculture and arrange for it to be distributed for agricultural use. It would most likely become part of the product range of a branded business. I expect it would be picked up by the fertiliser business, as it parallels what they already do.

This is a million miles from your dystopian fantasy of truckloads of raw, untested, mine spoil (i.e, chunks of rock and undifferentiated mud) being just dumped on farmland as a result of this proposal. That is not what is proposed and it is not what would happen. Obviously.