Did Nothing Create Everything?

[SetiAlpha6]

Treasure Island claims that Long John Silver existed. That is not evidence that Long John Silver existed.

Claims of supernatural events in Exodus make it less likely to be true.

I start with the idea that the Exodus account might be true. But as I keep telling you, even if the Exodus account is true, that says nothing about the existence of God.

Yes! Makes Sense to me!

That is a very appropriate and wise approach to evaluating the evidence.

I appreciate your comments very much!!!

I can only provide you with the puzzle pieces.
What you decide to do with them is your choice.

I would recommend that we start with the location of the Mountain of God as described in the Exodus accounts. If there is any chance that it is real, where would it be? What does the account say about it and is there any place on Earth that matches that description? If we can pull that one off, that would be a great starting point.

And you can evaluate it, however you wish to.

If you have no interest in this topic that is totally fine, and we can stop now.

What do you think?

 

[TheFrogger]

If you do not believe in God, you obviously have never felt his presence. Many believe he is already dead.

 

[kx000]

If you do not believe in God, you obviously have never felt his presence. Many believe he is already dead.

There are people who hate God, for "allowing" evil, but really they hate themselves. They're the ones who must hate things... the only reason they suffer.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Back again so you know I am in pain...I think visiting reminds me just how fortunate I am to have a mind that works . ..
Seti....imagine this...you have been charged with murder and the prosecution is entitled to use your approach to evidence.
The prosecution shows the jury photos of Smith Street and presents a witness who has seen you on Smith Street and then shows pictures of the victim in a pool of blood on Smith Street...the prosecutor then asks the jury to find you guilty....how does that sound to you??? Sure you are guilty the photos prove it.
Does that sound like a fair trial?
And imagine if all you could hear from the jury were mutterings like " I know he did it and the photos prove it"... Or " he must be guilty why else would he be here if he did not do it"..." He must be guilty otherwise the cops would not have arrested him"....

I know, rather strongly suspect, you are trolling and I must say your bait is well presented but really what is the point as when you get a nibble you never try and set the hook...

Sure was good to get off my feet for a while and count my blessings so thanks ...have a great day.
Alex
Alex

 

[scorpius]

Do you believe that Nothing created Everything?

If you do, please prove it.

I believe Universe always existed in some form.
After all matter and energy from which universe is made of cant be destroyed or created only changed
Its endless and eternal
The Big bang was just another change universe goes thru

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

If we can pull that one off, that would be a great starting point.

It is not a starting point...you just don't get it...lets us agree that the mountain as described exists...in fact let us agree that every rock and mountain has been identified and catalogued, and that Moses has carved his name on a rock and had it notarised... Let us accept all your photos as proving rocks etc ... We are left with the old question "where is the proof of God?" and of course the obvious answer is ......
Alex

 

[James R]

Yes, so are you.

Not as far as I can tell. Also, my parents and my birth certificate both say I was born in the 20th century. How about yours?

But have mentioned that somewhere, might delve into more detail on a fresh thread outside of religion.

That could be interesting. As things stand, you've made an assertion that appears to be plainly contradicted by simple observation.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I believe Universe always existed in some form.
After all matter and energy from which universe is made of cant be destroyed or created only changed
Its endless and eternal
The Big bang was just another change universe goes thru

I think the universe can only be eternal.
And that means no point of creation and hence no need whatsoever of a creator.

The Big Bang Theory can not and does not take us back past a point where it suggests there was less than a hot dense something....how old was the hot dense something? we do not know...was it something else before it became hot and dense? Where do folk get this something from nothing...mmm I know...only an invented god can entertain things out side of physics.

Certainly the concept of God is a fine example of something from nothing .

The problem theists point out in their unreasearched straw man big bang is they insert a notion that the big bang theory suggests everything came from nothing, which of course is not what it says, in fact it is the theist who presents a notion that everything came from nothing but certainly the big bang model does not suffer from the problem theists must observe with their made-up god creation supposition.

And how funny each theist only believes in one god more than the atheist...an atheist believes in none of the thousands of gods invented by humans and a theist believes in none of the thousands of gods invented by humans ...all except one...so the atheist and the theist are so close...they can agree that thousands of gods do not exist ...the theist only has one left to reject..just one...which given the evidence or lack thereof must be incredibly easy.

Alex

 

[SetiAlpha6]

There are people who hate God, for "allowing" evil, but really they hate themselves. They're the ones who must hate things... the only reason they suffer.

I have seen people who hate God for allowing evil. And also hate God for punishing it. They just seem to hate God period, no matter what He does!!!

Then they claim that He doesn’t exist. So they are apparently hating, you can even see it in their face, a being that does not exist!

And people think I am weird!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Back again so you know I am in pain...I think visiting reminds me just how fortunate I am to have a mind that works . ..
Seti....imagine this...you have been charged with murder and the prosecution is entitled to use your approach to evidence.
The prosecution shows the jury photos of Smith Street and presents a witness who has seen you on Smith Street and then shows pictures of the victim in a pool of blood on Smith Street...the prosecutor then asks the jury to find you guilty....how does that sound to you??? Sure you are guilty the photos prove it.
Does that sound like a fair trial?
And imagine if all you could hear from the jury were mutterings like " I know he did it and the photos prove it"... Or " he must be guilty why else would he be here if he did not do it"..." He must be guilty otherwise the cops would not have arrested him"....

I know, rather strongly suspect, you are trolling and I must say your bait is well presented but really what is the point as when you get a nibble you never try and set the hook...

Sure was good to get off my feet for a while and count my blessings so thanks ...have a great day.
Alex
Alex

Hey Alex, welcome back!

I was missing you already!!!

Sorry about your pain!!!

Can’t a doctor help you with that somehow?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

It is not a starting point...you just don't get it...lets us agree that the mountain as described exists...in fact let us agree that every rock and mountain has been identified and catalogued, and that Moses has carved his name on a rock and had it notarised... Let us accept all your photos as proving rocks etc ... We are left with the old question "where is the proof of God?" and of course the obvious answer is ......
Alex

Answer... there really is evidence!

Since the presence of the Hebrews as slaves in Egypt has real evidence on the ground for it. We will start there.

So given that Pharaoh had these people as slaves, as the engine to run his empire. (Try pulling the engine out of your car, get in it, turn the key, and then expect it to take you to work.)

Why would Pharaoh ever give up his slave force and bring his own country to ruin in doing so?

Unless the plaques and Moses and everything in the Exodus accounts took place?

You can always go with the often used, there is no evidence that Pharaoh ever existed routine.

But then, there is no evidence that you exist either, Alex.

Which actually might be correct, come to think of it?

How do I really know you exist Alex?

I mean you have never given me any proof!

Not even a shred of evidence that you exist!

Sorry but, it appears that you don’t exist Alex.

Which is a very sad thing!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Back again so you know I am in pain...I think visiting reminds me just how fortunate I am to have a mind that works . ..
Seti....imagine this...you have been charged with murder and the prosecution is entitled to use your approach to evidence.
The prosecution shows the jury photos of Smith Street and presents a witness who has seen you on Smith Street and then shows pictures of the victim in a pool of blood on Smith Street...the prosecutor then asks the jury to find you guilty....how does that sound to you??? Sure you are guilty the photos prove it.
Does that sound like a fair trial?
And imagine if all you could hear from the jury were mutterings like " I know he did it and the photos prove it"... Or " he must be guilty why else would he be here if he did not do it"..." He must be guilty otherwise the cops would not have arrested him"....

I know, rather strongly suspect, you are trolling and I must say your bait is well presented but really what is the point as when you get a nibble you never try and set the hook...

Sure was good to get off my feet for a while and count my blessings so thanks ...have a great day.
Alex
Alex

Those photos are still evidence!
Correct?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

It is not a starting point...you just don't get it...lets us agree that the mountain as described exists...in fact let us agree that every rock and mountain has been identified and catalogued, and that Moses has carved his name on a rock and had it notarised... Let us accept all your photos as proving rocks etc ... We are left with the old question "where is the proof of God?" and of course the obvious answer is ......
Alex

Alex, what would be proof of God to you?
Or, even evidence for God?

 

[sideshowbob]

I can only provide you with the puzzle pieces.
What you decide to do with them is your choice.

No, that isn't how it works. I'm questioning the way you put the puzzle pieces together, so I need you to show us why you chose the connections you chose.

I would recommend that we start with the location of the Mountain of God as described in the Exodus accounts. If there is any chance that it is real, where would it be?

You could start by answering the question I've asked more than once: Why would the Israelites detour all the way to Saudi Arabia?

What does the account say about it and is there any place on Earth that matches that description?

The account in Exodus is nowhere near detailed enough to pinpoint it to one place on earth.

 

[Seattle]

Alex, what would be proof of God to you?
Or, even evidence for God?

http://godisimaginary.com/i51.htm

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I think the universe can only be eternal...

...Certainly the concept of God is a fine example of something from nothing .

Please prove that the universe is eternal.
And that it also has the ability to create life from a rock, or anything else.

The God hypothesis includes the idea that He is eternal, that nothing never existed. And that God created the physical universe from His power and will.

But I cannot prove it!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

You could start by answering the question I've asked more than once: Why would the Israelites detour all the way to Saudi Arabia?

Ok...

According to the account in the Bible we are told that Moses killed an Egyptian and Pharaoh was seeking and intent on killing Moses because of this.

So Moses fled Egypt and went to Midian, again according to the text.

The Egyptians had a military presence in the Sinai Peninsula (which was not even called that until much much later) for centuries to protect their copper, and turquoise mines.

There are ruins of an Egyptian military base at Nuweiba.

I can give you Google Earth coordinates for the base if you want to go there.

And in addition there is still a lot of evidence still at those mines, with Semitic writing carved into solid rock there. Evidence left behind from the Hebrew slaves that worked for the Egyptians at these mines.

Wherever you have slaves, you would also have to have the Egyptian military to oversee them.

To put it simply, Moses would not have fled, literally for his life, from Egypt and then just go right back into a location where he would almost certainly be captured and killed.

We also know exactly where Midian is.
Midian has always been in Saudi Arabia.
People have tried to stretch and force the boundaries of Midian around to fit their own use, but we have always known where it was.

I could post a map or two for you if you wish.

Dr. Glen A. Fritz has done extensive research in this area. You can look him up on the internet very easily, and decide for yourself, if you wish.

If Moses went to Midian, Moses went to Saudi Arabia.

It becomes a very simple equation.

And there is more evidence in Midian.

In addition to that evidence, the Split Rock is sitting right where it should be, there in Midian, at the Mountain of God.

Moses encountered God at the Mountain of God, a very real place, and God told Moses to bring His people back to the Mountain.

That Mountain is located in Saudi Arabia, and that is why Moses brought them to Saudi Arabia.

And there is evidence for them at that Mountain as well.

 

[sideshowbob]

There are ruins of an Egyptian military base at Nuweiba.

Are there ruins of any other Egyptian military bases?

And in addition alot of evidence still at those mines, with Semitic writing carved into solid rock there. Evidence left behind from the Hebrew slaves that worked for the Egyptians at these mines.

How do you connect the writing to Hebrew slaves? And again, are there any other examples of Semitic writing anyehere else?

To put it simply, Moses would not have fled, literally for his life, from Egypt and then have gone right back into a location where he would almost certainly be captured and killed.

Huh? He fled from Egypt because he was wanted for murder. And he did go back to Egypt to set his people free.

We also know exactly where Midian is.
Midian has always been in Saudi Arabia.

Again, why would the Israelites take a long detour through Midian?

If Moses went to Midian, Moses went to Saudi Arabia.

What makes you think he went to Midian?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

How do you connect the writing to Hebrew slaves? And again, are there any other examples of Semitic writing anyehere else?

Here is a bit more on that topic.

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet/new-discoveries.htm

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Huh? He fled from Egypt because he was wanted for murder. And he did go back to Egypt to set his people free.

Yes, there was a 40 year gap between the two. He was free to return after the Pharaoh who wanted to kill him died.