Please post your justification, with appropriate supporting links etc. here. If you cannot or will not do so, this thread will be closed.
Do homeopathic remedies contain measurable quantities of the "medicine"?
- Thread starter KUMAR5
- Start date
Since this thread is partly moved from Science forum, my intention was just to justify that during discussions we can come to know few yet unclear things in science. Previously in some other thread I was able to understand about possibility of molecular presence in higher dilutions of homeopathic remedies. Actually, it is somewhat to know the science of working of homeopathic remedies so can also justify discussions in science forum. Anyway in brief, Actually it is considered that homeopathic remedies are nothing other than water. Some claim that it has also been tested but no molecule other than water is traced on tests which look quite odd to me. Molecules can present in all dilutions on following grounds,
1. Adsorbed molecules of active substance to glass walls of bottles which keep on desorbing by and during remedy preparation process. I also gave an personal observation of some syrup whose smell did not gone even after more than 100 washings.
2. Shredded particles of glass walls along with adsorbed molecules of active substance.
3. Shredded particles of glass from glass bottle walls.
4. Molecules of normal pollutions in water.
5. Physical presence of active substances in lower dilutions than 12C or 24X.
All the above presences can not test homeopathic remedies as plain water without any other molecules than just of H2O.
1. Adsorbed molecules of active substance to glass walls of bottles which keep on desorbing by and during remedy preparation process. I also gave an personal observation of some syrup whose smell did not gone even after more than 100 washings.
2. Shredded particles of glass walls along with adsorbed molecules of active substance.
3. Shredded particles of glass from glass bottle walls.
4. Molecules of normal pollutions in water.
5. Physical presence of active substances in lower dilutions than 12C or 24X.
All the above presences can not test homeopathic remedies as plain water without any other molecules than just of H2O.
Homeopathetic remedies have been tested and they do not work. Talking about adsorption or other mechanisms is a waste of time, since they don't work!!
Every agent have different standards to prove its working. Some with much side effects can also show effecting so much in provings whereas others with minimal side effect can show lesser effecting in proving. If 100 taste water dissolved with higher quantity of salt directly they all can recognize salt in water but if you dissolve just one grain of salt in same water many may even not recognize it. It does not mean salt was not there in water. Further just see whole of your lap top screen, you may need less concentration but just look at one dot on screen you will need more concentration. So this is the difference between high dose and low dose stimulation of physiological activities. Homeopathic remedies work by stimulation of more relevant physiological activities. Hormesis scientific theory apply to it. About working, millions well spread all over the world are using these remedies since long back and many repeatedly, it suggest these work. Anyone doubting can do practical survey by visiting many homeopathic clinics.
Homeopathy still doesn't work.
Proof of working is different to proof of their being no active ingredient. The placebo effect is strong enough that people will think the remedy itself "works", and science has proven that the placebo effect is real. Noone has proven that the homeopathic remedy itself is the cause, however.
Sure, the hormesis effect might play a part, but for that there generally does need to be at least some active ingredient in the remedy. Homeopathy not only uses rather odd "active ingredients", but at high-C solutions there simply is no active ingredient.
No, it suggests that many people think it works. What unquestionably often works, however, is the placebo effect and not the homeopathic remedy itself.
To what end? To be regaled with all their selection bias in the "science" they use to prove efficacy? To hear all the pseudo-science and techno-babble they start going on about to try and convince it works? One doesn't need any of that. Homeopathy is the placebo effect wrapped up in an expensive shell, peddled to the gullible.
If you're not getting rid of the smell then you're not washing thoroughly enough. Sterilisation should get rid of it for you. But maybe your homeopathy clinic / lab uses merely "washed" bottles and vials?
I'm guessing you don't see how self-defeating this argument of yours actually is? One of homeopathy's main claims is that a remedy is more potent the higher the C-number - i.e. the more dilute it is. To the point where a 200C solution is considered quite normal, with mathematically one particle of active ingredient in more molecules than in the entire universe.
Yet here you are giving a number of ways in which other molecules - e.g. "normal pollutions in water" - can be in the water as well, yet somehow the mathematically-non-existent active ingredient trumps all the other "normal pollutions".
Do you not see how absurd that really is? How your examples turn everything we drink into "homeopathic" remedies, such that any official remedy would simply be swamped in terms of efficacy?
I'm guessing you don't. Which is why homeopathy continues to be allowed and not suffer under a trade description violation.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
All good points. But in fact this was gone though in the original thread that I linked to, which spawned this one: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/static-energy-electricity.159824/page-6
Also, he lied about it. So he is untrustworthy. My concern with his relentless questions on Covid is that I fear he may be running some scammy health business in India and is using us to help him concoct storylines. I'm sure there is a good deal of money to be made by exploiting the fears of uninformed people about Covid. I hope I am wrong of course.
Fair enough. I missed that thread. I'll drop out of this now, at least until something more sensible comes along.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
It could be a long wait.Fair enough. I missed that thread. I'll drop out of this now, at least until something more sensible comes along.
By the way, I very much enjoyed your imagery of boiling turds on a cooker being arguably cooking. I may shamelessly steal that one....
Yes, it does not work in some.
No, it really doesn't, sorry. Some people claims homeopathy works, just like some people claim they have been abducted by aliens.
I shown you justification about stimuli even in higher dilutions.
I shown basis of their working.
I also shown practical experisnces on field applications.
Whether placebo or enhanced placebo or direct effects but still effects are justified. Lesser the side effects better is the outcome. All these excercise is for science and humanity but not for homeooathic community
Now it is one's own choice either to accept or reject it. No one can force other either way. This is all I can tell.
It may depend upon one's prception or choice, how he see others. It does bot mean his preception or choice is also equally applicable on all. Moreover existance of anything for long or short time also matter for its true justification.
I don't know what that means.
I do know that homeopathy has been clearly shown to be nothing but pseudoscience garbage.
No. Pros and cons are atrached to every system. No system is free from either If one just base cons or negative side, every system can be taken as odd which is not rationale. Anyway these are just repetitions of old story. No use to waste time in reteating the things. Be happy in your home and they are hapoy in their home. I simply shown justification for molecular presence in higher dilution i.e. tooic subject which is well fulfilled here. Now no one can say that higher dilutions are nothing other than water.
We can say (have I mentioned this before?) that homeopathy is pseudoscience garbage, so whether there are a few molecules of something other than water in a bottle is irrelevant.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
this is my personal opinion
homeopathy deals with activator queues
when you train the body & Mind to react to activator queues on top of placebo effect it can be very effective
it appears homeopathy is best with people with complex health needs who are incapable of taking any more medications and are already pushing themselves to become better.
unlike someone taking a drug & waiting for it to kick in
the average homeopathy patient has heavy investment in driving a forward path to better health
THAT is my personal opinion
& i have met & worked along side(as a work colleague) & chatted with many people (with complex health needs)who use it(as a patient) successfully
NOTE :
these patients with complex health needs , only need to activate the placebo effect to get better over-all health outcomes.
so some type of non intrusive activator that teaches & queues their mind to do that is worth real money.
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No bonehead, it is proven pseudoscience garbage.
Yhanks. I just mentioned homeopathy as a part of casual discussion there . Anyway, it is not purely placebo effect esp when stimuli or molecular presence in higher dilutions is akready justified. If concentrating on one dot on your lap top screen increases your concentration and focusing power more than when you look whole screen, it can not be attributed yo placebo or fake effect because stimuli is yhere. Moreover if stimuli in higher dikutions enhance placebo it is also sn effect not fake. Moreover placebo us already proven as a scientific effect ehich enhance motivation due to reward expectation which cause sone dooamine relese in brain. Furthur oositive observation snd experisnces5 of millions. All these things do not justify it to call it garbage. Yes these remedies sre different in nature so may not come at par to other concentrated modern agents and in their provings but it dies not mean their rxistsnce n effect if at all fake.