Do homeopathic remedies contain measurable quantities of the "medicine"?

Ethanol is a natural substance used in homeopathy.

That's why shot glasses were made. :smile:
 
KUMAR5 said:
Whatever i am bothered about the effect lower the quantity, kesser the side effects it is still better for me.
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Yep. A placebo will have fewer side effects that pretty much anything else out there, because it contains no pharmaceutically active materials.
Many effects can be from non matrial.
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Yes, that's what the placebo effect is.
 
  • James
  • That makes no sense. A constant is a constant - not something that one can "override". I don't think you know what you're talking about. Do you actually understand measures of concentration?
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I simply understand that previously according to this calculation remedies beyond 12C or 24X dilutions was calculated and claimed of having no molecules left in remedies. It was main concern of discrediting homeopathy which I shown otherwise. One more logic you can add to 5 logics I mentioned in my previous post i.e.;

6. Dilution error( just casually named it as do not know what should be right name):-

Concentration of active substances will be different on surface or at bottom due to always non-homogenous solution due to weight and volume difference between acive substances and water. Oil or sugar or snall stones accumulate more on either surface or at bottom of water and when 99 part of such solution is removed balance 1 percent will me more concentrated. Since active substances and water do not chemically react with other they will always hold individual capacity. You might have notices usually left over sugar water is more sweet than whole glass solution. This can also override calculation of molecular presence upto some extent. Not so?

Your claim, then, is that no matter how many dilutions somebody does, or how thoroughly they clean the glassware, there will always be some molecules of active substance left - and that the fewer of them there are the more effective the homeopathic medicine is - as long as not all the molecules are removed? Is that right?

I guess that means that the most effective dose for any homeopathic medicine would be a single molecule. Is that correct? Is that your claim?

Sub-molecular? So you think that homeopathic remedies might be effective even if there is only a single, damaged molecule of the substance? Really?

There's no point at all in trying to establish a mystical, magical, "non-material effect" until you have established the basics: that the medicine does something. That it is therapeutically beneficial. But, as you know, all controlled studies point to the exact opposite.

We know what happens chemically in the body as the "fight or flight" response takes place. The chemistry and physiology is well understood. There is no analogue with homeopathic remedies, which are proven not to do anything.

Is it your claim that homeopathic remedies are not chemicals? Are they not made of atoms like every other chemical substance? Are they magical things?

They have been studied. They have been shown not to work. What's so hard about this for you?

You're relying on anecdotal evidence again, which we can put down to the placebo effect.
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Sorry, rest is our routine aurgumants discussed several times. You are right in your home but I can also be right in my home based on practical observations. So we can avoid it. My main purpose in this topic was to attend topic subject which I think attended properly.

About working and sub standard outcome come by studding these at par to modern meds, my say is there is methodology difference in conducting studes in these two different natured types. These should be studies same at par to as these are practiced and prescribed by competent homeopaths. Since it is not topic subject we can discuss it in some other specific topic other times.

Thanks for taking so much pain for me.

Bye.
Note, I do not understand how some part of my reply is not got posted esp in begining. Pls manage further, i am facing some problems in multiple quoting and in spell check. Pls see
 
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origin said:
Homeopathy is a scam that steals money from unsuspecting people. People might use a homeopathic potion instead of a medicine that could actually help them, so it is more of a "live and let die" situation. Individuals who sell homeopathic crap are either uninformed, deluded or evil.
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Then according to you million of its users in most part of world and many govt and big edauctional authorities are idiots?
 
KUMAR5 said:
I simply understand that previously according to this calculation remedies beyond 12C or 24X dilutions was calculated and claimed of having no molecules left in remedies. It was main concern of discrediting homeopathy which I shown otherwise. One more logic you can add to 5 logics I mentioned in my previous post i.e.;

6. Dilution error( just casually named it as do not know what should be right name):-

Concentration of active substances will be different on surface or at bottom due to always non-homogenous solution due to weight and volume difference between acive substances and water. Oil or sugar or snall stones accumulate more on either surface or at bottom of water and when 99 part of such solution is removed balance 1 percent will me more concentrated. Since active substances and water do not chemically react with other they will always hold individual capacity. You might have notices usually left over sugar water is more sweet than whole glass solution. This can also override calculation of molecular presence upto some extent. Not so?



Sorry, rest is our routine aurgumants discussed several times. You are right in your home but I can also be right in my home based on practical observations. So we can avoid it. My main purpose in this topic was to attend topic subject which I think attended properly.

About working and sub standard outcome come by studding these at par to modern meds, my say is there is methodology difference in conducting studes in these two different natured types. These should be studies same at par to as these are practiced and prescribed by competent homeopaths. Since it is not topic subject we can discuss it in some other specific topic other times.

Thanks for taking so much pain for me.

Bye.
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billvon said:
Yep. A placebo will have fewer side effects that pretty much anything else out there, because it contains no pharmaceutically active materials.

Yes, that's what the placebo effect is.
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I shown to yor molecular presence somewhat dot on your lap top screen. If you are getting physiologically active from these stimuli, it can not be taken as placebo. Side efffects can depend on quality alsong with quantity of agents.

No you look at some opposite parner and get exited. Or you look a lion and deevelop fight or flight response or you just sense a fuud and become active, all these are not placeby though non materialistic.
 
billvon said:
Not idiots so much as misled. They are being told lies, and they believe them.
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This is just other way to define idiocy.. one thing I can tell you fir sure, most homeooaths do not misgude or cheat intentionally in thei selfish interest. They can be misguided in themselves but are not dishonest.
 
Beer w/Straw said:
Ethanol is a natural substance used in homeopathy.

That's why shot glasses were made. :smile:
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only recently has modern science been capable of proving the health benefits of anti inflammatory compounds & activations.
through to antioxidant properties combined
the analgesic combined anti inflammatory effect slowing down the body can help kick start a new focus on to recovery
additionally altered states can help reduce stress & anxiety

i have done quite a bit of reading on the subject & have no shortage of basic science to back up what some others call fake science.
 
KUMAR5 said:
most homeooaths do not misgude or cheat intentionally in thei selfish interest. They can be misguided in themselves but are not dishonest.
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I would believe that, for many homeopaths, they are doing what they believe to be true. Just as for decades doctors used leeches. They did not use leeches because they were evil - they used leeches because they honestly thought it would work.

However, there are a great number of people who are not interested in homeopathy at all, and just know how to make a quick buck off people who want to buy homeopathic remedies.
 
KUMAR5 said:
I shown to yor molecular presence somewhat dot on your lap top screen. If you are getting physiologically active from these stimuli, it can not be taken as placebo.
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If you show someone a dot, and tell them it will cure them, and they feel cured - it's a placebo. Because that dot does not do anything therapeutic, other than through the placebo effect.
Side efffects can depend on quality alsong with quantity of agents.
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The quantity of agents in a homeopathic preparation are always effectively zero. You could, of course ,accidentally put arsenic in the water or something, thus causing a bad reaction.
No you look at some opposite parner and get exited. Or you look a lion and deevelop fight or flight response or you just sense a fuud and become active,
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Couldn't decipher that.

But if your point is that your brain can affect your body, absolutely true. That's how placebos work. The important thing to realize is this:

If you are convinced a given mixture works for you, and you do in fact see benefits. then the equivalent quantity of distilled water will do exactly the same thing - as long as you believe it will. And distilled water is a lot cheaper and safer.
 
billvon said:
If you show someone a dot, and tell them it will cure them, and they feel cured - it's a placebo. Because that dot does not do anything therapeutic, other than through the placebo effect.

The quantity of agents in a homeopathic preparation are always effectively zero. You could, of course ,accidentally put arsenic in the water or something, thus causing a bad reaction.

Couldn't decipher that.

But if your point is that your brain can affect your body, absolutely true. That's how placebos work. The important thing to realize is this:

If you are convinced a given mixture works for you, and you do in fact see benefits. then the equivalent quantity of distilled water will do exactly the same thing - as long as you believe it will. And distilled water is a lot cheaper and safer.
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Let us first care tghe topic subject that will molecular presence be there in homeopathic remedies in view of 6 logics/justification I presented here in my previous posts. Rest this and that or yes or no, works or not, placebo etc we can discuss in a separate topic. Sorry.
 
billvon said:
I would believe that, for many homeopaths, they are doing what they believe to be true. Just as for decades doctors used leeches. They did not use leeches because they were evil - they used leeches because they honestly thought it would work.

However, there are a great number of people who are not interested in homeopathy at all, and just know how to make a quick buck off people who want to buy homeopathic remedies.
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Btw, whether outcome from trials is more important and valid or real practical experiances on field applications? How many agents show adverse outcomes on field/actual application even after proper studies and controlled DBPC trals?
 
KUMAR5 said:
Let us first care tghe topic subject that will molecular presence be there in homeopathic remedies in view of 6 logics/justification I presented here in my previous posts.
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OK.

There are no relevant amounts of therapeutic substances in homeopathic medicines. Period.
Btw, whether outcome from trials is more important and valid or real practical experiances on field applications?
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Are you admitting that homeopathic remedies have failed every scientific test? If so, great! I call that progress.

As you have mentioned, there are indeed cases where the placebo effect results in a completely useless treatment (like homeopathic remedies) causing improvement. You would see exactly the same improvement with distilled water - and in fact studies have proven this.

So save your money and use distilled water. Unless, of course, you get big bucks by conning people to buy your snake oil.
 
James R said:
My own feeling is that KUMAR5 may have some skin in the game on this one. Maybe he is profiting from homeopathy.
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No absolutely not. Yes I am taking these along with modern meds. Hiwever I now got a feeling that, in view of 6 justification now given by me, declaring higher dilutions as nothing other than water after testing these is a big scam. Probably it started from nemory of water experiment to save $ 1m ifdered by Randi. About warking and effectiveness field or practical experiences and observations should hold more weight than just studies, trials etc eith methedological fsults. so it also look a oart if scam or wrong publicity by which most opposite side peopke got imoressed or perceived.
 
James R said:
My own feeling is that KUMAR5 may have some skin in the game on this one. Maybe he is profiting from homeopathy.
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This is what I also suspect. These relentless and tendentious questions about the Omicron variant being a "friend", coming after a long thread in which he defended homeopathy, after first denying it, make me wonder if there is some scammy "health" business involved and we are unwittingly providing him with storylines. Impossible to prove of course, but I am uneasy.

Though it has to be said that some of the responses on the covid thread have been very informative.
 
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You might have noted , I got involved in many different types of discussions or different dubject since my joining this forum. I do resoect all understsndings esp if those are existing in well soread people at mass. But since we all anticipate nothing is or even can be absolute and complete, if I go on checking, understanding and telling more and more beyond commonly available hnderstandings at internet or elswhere, I am not odd. In one sense I am nore sceptic than all of you but just differ that I am not one sided perceived and take things with posive possibilty. Science n other people should feel enciuraged due to it if not oblized. Everywhare, I feel possibilty of some unintentional miss or weakness .
Hope it will clear
 
James R said:
My own feeling is that KUMAR5 may have some skin in the game on this one. Maybe he is profiting from homeopathy.
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i have private chatted with patients & homeopaths & best friends of homeopaths

some of it appears to be complete nonsense yet actually works

however i have the advantage of witnessing real special healing abilities by humans.
so i know some stuff is possible but has no science attached to it & never will.
no im not going to elaborate for someone to target someone
& i don't believe in evangelical healing through a church
i think 99.99% of that is fake
 
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