Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by zacariah88, Feb 22, 2023.

?

Do you believe you have freewill

  1. yes

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. no

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  3. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    Dave, brillainat art truly humans are that with out them knowing.
     
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  5. zacariah88 Registered Member

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  7. zacariah88 Registered Member

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  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Chill on the no free will cartoons man... im startin to freek out

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  9. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    no cartoons okay, like them and many people like it.
     
  10. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    maybe- but we are talking theoretically. Just because we may never know ALL the determining variables does not mean those variables do not exist.

    In fact, this is a fairly well established fact among contemporary behavioral neurobiologists:

    "All behavior can be explained by our genetic makeup. As we discover more about neurobiology, the idea of free will becomes less realistic; all of our actions and emotions connect to chemical processes within our minds that cannot be controlled."

    A good friend said this.

    https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/pre...es within our minds that cannot be controlled.
     
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry... my brain had a fever but im all well now an can also enjoy the cartoons

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  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah... some people Cant Handle The Truth.!!!
    Ah Oh... my brain is startin to feel hot agan

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  13. zacariah88 Registered Member

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    Don't worry stop writting becuase it is a very hard issue and only the super genius can handle it. To know the truth of how freewill existed in Eden and in Heaven is how to find the truth and know the secret of freewill. ;D.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, this is a science forum; it's fine to discuss God and free will academically, but do try to avoid phrases like "knowing the truth" "knowing the secret", because that is dancing with sermonizing, and we do have policies against that - even here in the Religion forum.
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, all this deep stuff can only be explained with cartoons ....

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  16. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I was tested in the 4th grade an i am a super genius wit a iq over 100%.!!!
    So does heaven still exist... an if so... does free will still exist in heaven.???
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This seems to have expired and now I don't remember what it was.

    I'm sure it was witty and hilarious though.
     
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  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    An IQ over 100%, you say...

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Question: Stipulating that the physical brain functions deterministically, is it possible that the emergent "mind" (You) might acquire an independent property of choice (FW) over and above the functional properties of the physical parts? (Tegmark)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2023 at 6:32 AM
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  20. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Traditionally, anything "extra" conjured by neural procedures performing the right "dance" pattern would be regarded as having no return effect on the brain (an asymmetrical relationship between "mental" and "material"). That's because experiences aren't publicly detectable -- materialism via its discomfort with dualism couldn't have something only privately known or reported by the body serving as a causal contributor. However, that remedy is inconsistent with itself...

    Epiphenomenalism: According to this view, subjective mental events are completely dependent for their existence on corresponding physical and biochemical events within the human body, yet themselves have no influence over physical events. [...] The conscious experiences that accompany brain processes are causally impotent.

    [...] The most powerful argument against epiphenomenalism is that it is self-contradictory: if we have knowledge about epiphenomenalism, then our brains know about the existence of the mind, but if epiphenomenalism were correct, then our brains should not have any knowledge about the mind, because the mind does not affect anything physical, but if the mind is physical so there is no contradiction, and if it is not, it has knowledge about itself anyway.

    But epiphenomenalism's view -- that radically emergent mental events are effete -- also isn't necessary. Since any claim that all causes in a brain have been meticulously mapped out and accounted for -- right down to miniscule electrochemical activity -- would be false. It's purely belief or confidently adhering to the dogma of a philosophical theory that there are no anomalous or loose ends abiding in the brain, rather than there being evidence for such (the aforementioned literally being catalogued in their entirety, which might be impossible even for a super-advanced civilization).

    Favoring the neighborhood of Russelian monism, I don't believe experiences (the sensory manifestations of an external world and personal thoughts/feelings) are brutely "conjured" anyway. They're simply the result of the brain manipulating inherent characteristics of matter that existed in a primitive or quasi-dormant state beforehand into the sophistication of consciousness (this could arguably include even aspects of Alfred Whitehead's process philosophy as a possibility). They would be ontological properties/capacities, something to do with how matter exists to itself independent of the abstract descriptions or symbolic representations assigned to it by human researchers (as if the artificial nature and origins of the latter could ever sanely apply to how an objective world truly existed to begin with); and the manufactured outer appearances falling out of biological perception (evolutionary in origin).
    _
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2023 at 4:36 PM
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  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you CC, for this treasure trove! Excellent stuff.
    Question: Don't conscious experiences trigger action potentials within the organism itself?

    I suspect that mods may find this off-topic. But I believe it meshes with Penrose's ORCH OR, so I'll respond to your excellent and informative post in my thread about microtubules. I hope that is acceptable.

    http://sciforums.com/threads/is-con...-in-microtubules.161187/page-141#post-3714897
     
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Good catch Dave.!!!

    In full disclosure... an i say this not to brag... but sinse my iq measured in the high 80's in the 4th grade... i surmised it must be well over 100% by now sinse im in my 70's an have learned lots more stuff than i knew in the 4th grade... so...

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  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Yes... yes i will admit... that might exactly whare free will comes from... some way... some how

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    ... or hell... it might even come from God of the Holey-Bible

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