Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by zacariah88, Feb 22, 2023.

?

Do you believe you have freewill

  1. yes

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. no

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. zacariah88 Registered Member

    Messages:
    82
    This why the question of our existence comes from an A.I. can have freewill. But do we have freewill I will say yes even though some say he planned everything already and everything from a chip of block moved by a centimeter is part of his plan and the universe moving and the solar systems moves planets is part of his plan. Do you decided your future or you can decide it now that you can change your destiny and have a dream to president or engineer. Shows their is truth in your will to decide from your brain to move your destiny. ;D
     
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  3. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    Can you reword this please?

    Yes you can do anything you want, but ultimately it was predestined.
     
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  5. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    2,002
    Sounds like an argument for atheism.
     
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  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    How come?
     
  8. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    2,002
    Predestined seems to contradict anything you want.
     
  9. zacariah88 Registered Member

    Messages:
    82
    A.I. can be also like God understanding of good and evil and we humans understand good and evil God said we are like him and the angels but no authority but an A.I. has no same value as us humans or our laws of moses laws directed to us, created by God. an A.I. can understand the plan of God and do it but he is not part of salvation and cannot be saved like Jesus saves us just like clone sof humans cannot be saved but a clone can do the plan of God.

    A.I. can understand the secrets of the bible but limited to error still.
     
  10. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    If you were a baby in a crib, you can do whatever you want in that crib.

    For a believer, God is in control, they acknowledge they are on a planet where God exists as a parent outside the planet.

    For Atheists, there are no restrictions.
     
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    I think you could teach the 613 commandments practicing Jews have to try to abide by via software programming on a robot. A robot would just do the 613 commandments if programmed. As far as an A.I knowing the plan of a Jewish God, hmmm I can't see it.

    I'll be happy with C-3PO

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  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,607
    If what you do is predestined, you cannot do anything you want - unless what you want is also predestined. In which case, you have no free will.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,970
    One question.

    What law requires God to be sentient?
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,970
    Second question.

    Does God have Free Will?
     
  15. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,971
    None that i know of.!!!


    Not that i know of.!!!
     
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  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,107
    I think someone may have said that this might boil down to the choice of frame of reference.We have free choice in our own frame of reference but not in another frame(though how that other frame could know any better I can't say,except maybe as a logical principle)

    I also think the idea of a theoretically predetermined physical universe has fallen out of favour; would that include the subjective world of ideas?
     
  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Exactly... but God might not exist therefore you do have freewill, don't you?
     
  18. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    There are no scientific/manmade laws, what other law did you have in mind?

    Nice to see you still around btw

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  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    5,106
    The monotheist God has freewill.

    He is the alpha and omega, there is no one keeping an eye on God. Not like us stuck on a planet.

    God willed the universe and everything in it, into existence, according to tradition. I would call that free will.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,970
    Same here...

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    There are Natural laws or what science calls "constants", that emerged directly after the "inflationary epoc" and has been identified in Chaos Theory.
    We have been able to duplicate this process with the creation of the Higgs boson, by copying the approximate conditions that were present directly after the inflationary period.

    The enormous range of chaotic activity and temperature fluctuations in the baby universe did not require conscious experimentation. As the temperature dropped every possible interactive variation became realized in chronological order until the right conditions were met and presto "creation"!

    If we were able to approximate those conditions in a lab (Cern), the mathematical laboratory of the early universe had no problem creating the Higgs boson and every other element that we see today and as well as the molecules and polymers that are still being created as we speak. The Universe is its own laboratory as can be demonstrated today.

    Robert Hazen estimated that Earth itself performed some 2 trillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion chemical experiments during its 4+ billion year lifetime.
    Truly an astronomical number.

    If there was a God the question becomes how "It" could have possibly duplicated the way we know that creation must have happened. Why would a sentient being begin with creating Chaos if it could just begin with an irreducible complexity? It is just not logical.

    We also know that however it did happen, it was in accordance with mathematically guided physics. And whereas that may appear to be "intelligent design", it can be demonstrated that it can just be via mathematical functions processing relational quantum values which we can observe every day all around us. The creative agency is the "mathematical function"
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    And that is really all we can go by, no?
    There is that pesky deterministic causality that is dependent on stochastic probabilities.
     
  22. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    None of them laws are applicable to a supernatural being.

    There is no objective evidence for God.

    EDIT: Religion and Science don't mix well, a science book explains our reality. Religion explains things beyond our reality, all up to the individual to accept or not. Write4U, you aren't looking in the right place, maybe you can't, if God exists, it made you who you are. Blame God, if you wish you could believe in it

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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  23. geordief Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,107
    Are there any experiments that could determine whether or not any particular individual possessed a quality that might be described as " having free will" or "not having free will"?

    Since this is in the philosophy forum ,that question is perhaps off topic..


    ....but maybe topical as AI seems to be looming closer in our collective rear wing mirror and may pose the question more depressingly even if with no clearer resolution.
     

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