You know guy the pretending wise atheist are so brain closed in their way as fanatic Muslim . They don't appreciate that the writing was done several thousands back and people as the author had the vision to put things together in writing , that is one of great thing , wile the pretending holes of a rectum glorifies themselves to be smart. We now have all sorts of means to learn wile in the time of Enoch they were practiclly empty handed , we have all sort of references , they did not have what we have . So don't feel bad remember with whom you are dealing.
Enoch has perfectly described a black hole in The Book of Enoch
- Thread starter garbonzo
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You know guy the pretending wise atheist are so brain closed in their way as fanatic Muslim . They don't appreciate that the writing was done several thousands back and people as the author had the vision to put things together in writing , that is one of great thing , wile the pretending holes of a rectum glorifies themselves to be smart. We now have all sorts of means to learn wile in the time of Enoch they were practiclly empty handed , we have all sort of references , they did not have what we have . So don't feel bad remember with whom you are dealing.
As the wiki article generously demonstrates, there is a whole lot of meaningful stuff to say about the Book of Enoch, but the most obscure topic conceivable is that any of the many myths and superstitions is contains might possibly correlate with some fact out of modern cosmology. And beyond that is the absurdity of that. Idiotic, wouldn't you say?
This document to me is a curiosity and probably has a lot more significance when we're talking about the origins of Christianity - how they ever came up with all of the bizarre formulations for a Son of God. In the Gnostic Scriptures - which have some parallels to this - Jesus is aloof, he doesn't have a human persona. There was some kind of decision to change the story, to make him a real man who is surrounded by misery and tries his best to cheer folks up. And then they made him bleed and really suffer. It's so contrived - like someone kept trying to produce a play but it wouldn't draw a crowd, so they kept revising it until they hit on a theme that made it popular.
Here you have a book that almost certainly was part of the Essene documents. These are the folks that apparently were the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls. They apparently invented Baptism. And they may have invented Jesus - I think there's a case for that. Somehow this book, and some others, made their way to Ethiopia and took root there and evolved into modern day Christianity in that part of the world. And apparently this book took root in the Levant and places where early versions of the gospels and epistles were cropping up. This was long before Jerome was given the task of organizing the first official Bible as we know it, the Vulgate. But by that time Jerome and/or his collaborators apparently decided that this book should not be incorporated. So it fell by the wayside in the part of the world that would give rise to European and American versions of Christianity.
The wiki article is chock full o' detail for an obsolete religious book (at least to Westerners) and it highlights how people come to believe whatever is handed down to them, and that there are many different versions that get handed down. It's a good example of some of the fantastic myths from which religions are born, and the crazed, confused world that comes from mixing fantasy with reality.
I like to call your attention baptism is not original Christian , it exist in Judaism = to wash the sin away.
Jesus the son of God ... We are all children of God, including you.
Like the excellent advise on how to treat your daughter after you sell her as a slave?
Don't kakle in this modern time with all our knowledge , poor people in Latin America if they have girls at young age they give them to economically well people as servant and the girls stay for many years until grow up. So don't tell me about the modern world , and please don't think the world is USA , there is a lot of variety. I am sure you know from history kings offered their daughters with other kings as an exchange of alliance .
When I said the Essenes apparently invented baptism, I was referring to a group of Jews who split from the Temple and went into the desert to get away from the infighting between the more dominant sects like the Pharisees and Sadducees. So yes, baptism was probably invented by Jewish Essenes, and the Christians incorporated it into their religion without acknowledging where it came from, which may be due to dishonesty, secrecy and fear, or possibly they simply lost their own history.
The Essenes are important because they left us the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls are important because they are the oldest Bible artifacts - and because they contain other writings that did not survive.
Below is a Roman denarius minted in 18 BC. On the left it says "Augustus" and on the flip side "Son of God".
Why the Jews wanted to create a Son of God named Jesus, to clash with the authority of the Romans, makes no sense. Besides, we know the 69 AD Roman War in Judaea was a Hebrew rebellion against the erection of a Roman statue inside the Temple, to try to force the Jews to worship Roman rulers. Whatever happened to cause the story of Jesus to arise from this disaster is hard to say. Probably Jesus is a symbol of the Zealots who were freedom fighters who the Romans probably considered terrorists. (The Romans stationed in Judaea, and their superiors back in Rome who learned about the Jewish uprising through messages.)
You mean we are all children of our parents. And the parents of the human race were protohumans, which is why there are so many apelike human skeletons from millions of years ago.
Besides God can't have children since he doesn't have a uterus, and if he did we'd all be asking who our father is. If you said "God the Father" that complicates matters a bit since we don't know which one is the real father, El (Ilah, Elohim, Eloah, Allah) or Yahweh.
Early Semites believed that Yahweh took a wife, a goddess named Asherah, and she was their goddess of fertility, but it's unclear if they believed she was the mother of all humans. However that would be the logical conclusion following a belief that she was the wife of God who created humans.
Archaeologists have found thousands of statuettes of her from ancient homes in Isreal. Wave, and say Hi Mom! :wave:
She was a busy lady up in Ugarit where she had seventy sons. Phoenician sailors may have brought her to Ugarit from Egypt. The Canaanites had contact with them, so it's easy to see how they may have brought Asherah to their villages with the story that she was married to Elohim. In any case, Jewish religion is tied to Ugaritic and Egyptian religion on this subject.
When I said the Essenes apparently invented baptism, I was referring to a group of Jews who split from the Temple and went into the desert to get away from the infighting between the more dominant sects like the Pharisees and Sadducees. So yes, baptism was probably invented by Jewish Essenes, and the Christians incorporated it into their religion without acknowledging where it came from, which may be due to dishonesty, secrecy and fear, or possibly they simply lost their own history.
The Essenes are important because they left us the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls are important because they are the oldest Bible artifacts - and because they contain other writings that did not survive.
Below is a Roman denarius minted in 18 BC. On the left it says "Augustus" and on the flip side "Son of God".
Why the Jews wanted to create a Son of God named Jesus, to clash with the authority of the Romans, makes no sense. Besides, we know the 69 AD Roman War in Judaea was a Hebrew rebellion against the erection of a Roman statue inside the Temple, to try to force the Jews to worship Roman rulers. Whatever happened to cause the story of Jesus to arise from this disaster is hard to say. Probably Jesus is a symbol of the Zealots who were freedom fighters who the Romans probably considered terrorists. (The Romans stationed in Judaea, and their superiors back in Rome who learned about the Jewish uprising through messages.)
You mean we are all children of our parents. And the parents of the human race were protohumans, which is why there are so many apelike human skeletons from millions of years ago.
Besides God can't have children since he doesn't have a uterus, and if he did we'd all be asking who our father is. If you said "God the Father" that complicates matters a bit since we don't know which one is the real father, El (Ilah, Elohim, Eloah, Allah) or Yahweh.
Early Semites believed that Yahweh took a wife, a goddess named Asherah, and she was their goddess of fertility, but it's unclear if they believed she was the mother of all humans. However that would be the logical conclusion following a belief that she was the wife of God who created humans.
Archaeologists have found thousands of statuettes of her from ancient homes in Isreal. Wave, and say Hi Mom! :wave:
She was a busy lady up in Ugarit where she had seventy sons. Phoenician sailors may have brought her to Ugarit from Egypt. The Canaanites had contact with them, so it's easy to see how they may have brought Asherah to their villages with the story that she was married to Elohim. In any case, Jewish religion is tied to Ugaritic and Egyptian religion on this subject.
I believe the Israelite living in Egypt for long time , they acquired Egyptian religion , this why it have taken Moses long time to undo with what they come from Egypt and I don't believe the whole group abandoned the traditional customs from Egypt , the Israelite went trough an religious evolution .Beside as the got into the land Canaan the mixed with other culture again some acquired their believe also, so the things are not cut and dry.
Simon Bolivar was the father of 5 republic , he did not impregnated one female , as you know it is a figure of speech. Same way as we are children of God . I don't know if you remember in this country about flower children . But I know you are pulling my leg with some of your funny statement .
Emm .. what then of 'Brown sugar, you make me feel so good" ..
Current bullshit as opposed to millenia old bullshit. Got it !
Yes sure. This one for example.
When was the first time baptism was mentioned in the Bible, and was there references to baptism before Christ was said to be born? Would this throw Christians off? Most Christians would not believe baptism came from Judaism, and would piss them off if there was proof of it.
Anyway, I didn't mean to talk about the Book of Enoch, but of his describing a black hole. Does it seem like it could be a black hole to you? Watch the video I posted.
[video=youtube;akbYW0UXubo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbYW0UXubo[/video]
The Essenes performed daily ritual immersion as opposed to occasional ritual immersion. Christians on other end of the spectrum are baptized only once. Differences seem to be a matter of frequency only.
Stephen Hawking:
A star will curve and distort the spacetime near it, more and more, the more massive and more compact the star is. If a massive star that has burnt up its nuclear fuel, cools and shrinks below a critical size, it will quite literally make a bottomless hole in spacetime, that light can't get out of. Such objects were given the name, black holes, by the American physicist, John Wheeler, who was one of the first to recognize their importance, and the problems they pose.
Enoch:
11)And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards 12) the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13) birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14) and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15) And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16) their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'
Yes, exactly the same.
No difference whatsoever.
A star will curve and distort the spacetime near it, more and more, the more massive and more compact the star is. If a massive star that has burnt up its nuclear fuel, cools and shrinks below a critical size, it will quite literally make a bottomless hole in spacetime, that light can't get out of. Such objects were given the name, black holes, by the American physicist, John Wheeler, who was one of the first to recognize their importance, and the problems they pose.
Enoch:
11)And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards 12) the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13) birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14) and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15) And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16) their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'
Yes, exactly the same.
No difference whatsoever.
If you assume for one moment this were true, this thing needed to be translated from a different language from an author that had very little knowledge of any of our current modern science words or lingo. He only had to work with the words and description best available to him. You can't be looking for exactly the same wording.
Can you just watch the video and point out why it's not correct in it's observations if you care to be cynical?
The first mention is John The Baptist. He was doing it in the wilderness, which correlates with the Essenes.
I think it's assumed by Christians that John the Baptist, Jesus and the Apostles were all Jews. However, I don't think the average Christian has given much thought about the rituals there were practiced by Jews and early Christians alike. Christianity requires a lot of denial about the historical facts concerning its origins, and apart from the studies done by scholars of the various churches to discover facts like these, I think congregations tend to avoid digging for fear that it's going to trouble them with contradictions.
It can't be a reference to a black hole because they were only recently discovered.
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Tell it like it is. Very informative.
I think that Enoch is describing the worst possible kind of place.
A place where everything has become a nightmare, because God was disobeyed.
In this place the normal rules of nature are no longer obeyed,
and it is a sight which fills Enoch with dread.
Yes, we could use the analogy of a Black hole to express the same kind of thing.
But that doesn't mean that Enoch was describing a Black Hole.
To think so, is faulty logic.
If a bus is red
and a bicycle is red,
that does not mean that the bus is a bicycle.
A place where everything has become a nightmare, because God was disobeyed.
In this place the normal rules of nature are no longer obeyed,
and it is a sight which fills Enoch with dread.
Yes, we could use the analogy of a Black hole to express the same kind of thing.
But that doesn't mean that Enoch was describing a Black Hole.
To think so, is faulty logic.
If a bus is red
and a bicycle is red,
that does not mean that the bus is a bicycle.
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Enoch:
11)And I saw a deep abyss, {I saw space and time combine)
with columns of heavenly fire, { more and more it went)
and among them I saw columns of fire fall, {gravity brought the fire into a compact thing)
which were beyond measure alike towards 12) the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13) birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14) and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15) { yada yada nuclear fuel critical}
And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16) their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'{Black holes referencing God}
No there completely and totally different, But I doubt either is perfect (=
11)And I saw a deep abyss, {I saw space and time combine)
with columns of heavenly fire, { more and more it went)
and among them I saw columns of fire fall, {gravity brought the fire into a compact thing)
which were beyond measure alike towards 12) the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13) birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14) and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15) { yada yada nuclear fuel critical}
And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16) their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'{Black holes referencing God}
No there completely and totally different, But I doubt either is perfect (=
Black Holes are in the news at the moment.
There is an opportunity for astronomers to discover more
about the multiple Black Holes at the centre of our Galaxy.
A vast and hidden field of small black holes predicted to be near the centre of our galaxy could be revealed as a giant gas cloud passes by.
The G2 cloud is as large as our Solar System, and bound for a "supermassive" black hole at the Milky Way's core.
On the way, it should encounter many black holes just tens of km across.
A report in Physical Review Letters suggests they will spin and heat the gas, which will emit a spray of X-ray light that telescopes could see.
The cloud of gas - three times larger than Pluto's orbit but with a total mass just three times that of the Earth - was first spotted on its course toward the galaxy's centre in 2011.
Researchers have been gearing up for the cloud's approach to the galaxy's enormous central black hole, with its closest approach in September.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22694229
Not as poetic as the KJV translation of Enoch, but awe inspiring in its own way.
I've never heard of this vast field of Black Holes before. I though there was just one big one.
There is an opportunity for astronomers to discover more
about the multiple Black Holes at the centre of our Galaxy.
A vast and hidden field of small black holes predicted to be near the centre of our galaxy could be revealed as a giant gas cloud passes by.
The G2 cloud is as large as our Solar System, and bound for a "supermassive" black hole at the Milky Way's core.
On the way, it should encounter many black holes just tens of km across.
A report in Physical Review Letters suggests they will spin and heat the gas, which will emit a spray of X-ray light that telescopes could see.
The cloud of gas - three times larger than Pluto's orbit but with a total mass just three times that of the Earth - was first spotted on its course toward the galaxy's centre in 2011.
Researchers have been gearing up for the cloud's approach to the galaxy's enormous central black hole, with its closest approach in September.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22694229
Not as poetic as the KJV translation of Enoch, but awe inspiring in its own way.
I've never heard of this vast field of Black Holes before. I though there was just one big one.
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