EYE-rock? EE-rock? ...

[Oxygen]

I spent a bit of time in Santa Cruz, so I guess "buoy" came up a lot more often. I always heard it called a boo-ey, even by sailors. Maybe it's just Northern California? Although, as you said, while we up here call it a boo-ey, we still refer to boy-an-see, not boo-yan-see.

But now, where does THIS come from? I've heard "boil" pronounced "bile". I want to say that's from deep in Dixie, but I'm not sure.

 

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

That's how the Queen speaks....and Tim Curry The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I think there is a term for that when in an english accent, but I can't remember it.....as in:

"You owe me twenty pines" instead of "You owe me twenty pounds".

 

[Athelwulf]

Schleeb is citing authority, by the rules of England.

I was trying to make the point to him that England's rules don't say that all other varieties of English are irrefutably, universally false, nor, to my knowledge, has anyone said so who had some tangible authority over the language. I understand the rules for their English basically as, "This is what we understand to be right for us", and many countries have elected to follow suit, I assume because of tradition. Basically: Their English is right for them, and our English is right for us, and neither is clearly superior in terms of authority.

You sound like a native speaker of Mandarin. I don't know where you hear the sound pronounced that way. Notice how you hold your tongue for the T. It's the same way you hold it to say "take." It is quite different from the shape and placement for "chain."

The sound is distinctly "ch"-like to me. I say this because if I focus, I can make a more "t"-like sound like in "take" before R, and it will sound very different, almost like if you had a recording of someone saying "terrain", cut out the second half of the first syllable, and connected the two remaining pieces. Now that you've said it, my tongue is placed the same way as for the "t" sound, but it's just not a pure "t" sound for me. There's a "sh" sound involved, which I think is influenced by the position my tongue has to go into for the "r" sound. I think the phrase for it is secondary articulation.

I don't believe any sizeable community of native speakers says it that way and it's certainly not network-TV-announcer-standard American. Everyone should listen to a native speaker of standard Mandarin (not a dialect like Sichuan) say CH and you'll hear the sound in question. I don't believe it occurs in any major dialect of American English.

I hear it in a lot of people, even from British people who say "lit'rally". I would get some sort of sound recording to demonstrate so you could see what I'm talking about, but I'm on dial-up.

 

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

many countries have elected to follow suit, I assume because of tradition.

Or maybe because they realise that the english spell english words more correctly than americans?

 

[draqon]

The I-rack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KWYYIY4jQ

and now...


the I-ran

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I hear it in a lot of people, even from British people who say "lit'rally".

That makes sense. With only a schwa rather than a proper vowel separating the T from the R, the tongue slides into the R position. That is the same force that is responsible for much palatalization. In Mandarin, the Q-J-X series of palatlized dentals only occurs before I-Y-Ü. The anticipation of the vowel position brings the tongue back and changes the consonant. Bringing us full circle, once again, back to American English "congrachyulations."

 

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

What about...."congrajewlations"?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

What about...."congrajewlations"?

As I said before, I never hear people pronounce it that way in the U.S., but it's a big country. It's still the powerful, planet-wide phenomenon of palatilization.

 

[Genji]

As I said before, I never hear people pronounce it that way in the U.S., but it's a big country. It's still the powerful, planet-wide phenomenon of palatilization.

I would say: Congradjullayshuns.

 

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

That's exactly what I mean.

 

[Blue_UK]

Just an observation guys - but you're trying to discuss pronunciation with spellings such as 'Eye-rock'.

I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent!

My (good) accent: Rock = rok (the 'o' really short)
US accent: Rock = rark (with a slightly nasal arrrrrrrggh! in the middle)

I used to say 'ih - rark' (which I'm guessing is what was meant by 'EE-rock')
but now, because I love warmongering Americans so much, say 'EYE - RACK'. Sometimes with a failed Texan accent.

Oh and Schleebenhorst, I noticed that you don't like giving England a capital 'E'. Fucking petty if you ask me! I'm more Scottish than I am English, but grew up in the south - the UK is the country. Scot, Wales, Eng and N.I. are just provinces. Anyone saying otherwise should really sit down and have a drink because we're a lot more alike than some of the other nations out there!

edit: oh, I and most of the people in the south (UK) say 'litchruhllee' - which is a bit sloppy, but hey - language evolves (by itself - may I add. Yanks I am looking at you).

 

[Oxygen]

Now to get picky (but hopefully in a friendly way),

I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent!

Which US accent? There are quite a few! My friend down in the southern states say eye-RACK. I say uh-RAK, my associate (who is a native Iranian and learned English in New York) emphasizes the first syllable as a short I (as in "it") and the last syllable as ruk or run, depending on if he's talking about Iraq or Iran.

 

[G. F. Schleebenhorst]

Just an observation guys - but you're trying to discuss pronunciation with spellings such as 'Eye-rock'.

I thought to myself no one says that - no one, but then I realised you were pronouncing 'rock' in an US accent!

True.

My (good) accent: Rock = rok (the 'o' really short)
US accent: Rock = rark (with a slightly nasal arrrrrrrggh! in the middle)

You just went and pronounced that in an accent too! OK, the language is called "english", but you forgot that you don't pronounce "R"s so to everyone else "rark" sounds like something a parrot would say. "Raak" or "Rahk" would be closer to what you meant, I think.

Oh and Schleebenhorst, I noticed that you don't like giving England a capital 'E'. Fucking petty if you ask me!

Muhahahaha. I wondered how long it would be before someone pointed that out. Don't worry, I do the same to "america".

I'm more Scottish than I am English, but grew up in the south - the UK is the country.

Not for much longer, I hope. The empire has gone down the toilet. I want out.

 

[Blue_UK]

Funnily enough I just spoke with my dad about Scottish independence (he's Scottish) and he thinks they might not bother with defence. I wonder if that would increase defence costs for the remainder of the UK? (as a proportion).

And I do pronounce 'r's. Like the 'r' in bath, glass, class...

 

[Zardozi]

Its Emraan. Some people here know who he is.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

OK, the language is called "english", but you forgot that you don't pronounce "R"s so to everyone else "rark" sounds like something a parrot would say. "Raak" or "Rahk" would be closer to what you meant, I think.

Oxford English is called a non-rhotic dialect, i.e. R after a vowel is silent. Standard American is rhotic; we pronounce them. I guess you're saying that Scotsmen do too.

We do have some non-rhotic dialects in America. Boston is the most infamous because it's actually reverse-rhotic. They pronounce "car" as IPA "ka," but then they turn around and pronounce "cola" as "kol'r." I heard a Bostonian struggling to learn Spanish once: "Éstar comídar es buénar."