I want to hear why you believe in a god(s). Also give me some arguements as to why people should believe.
For the theists...Why do you believe?
- Thread starter spiritual_spy
- Start date
Well, for me personally, it's a matter of hope. Hope that I can see my dad again someday, who I lost to a heart attack when I was young.
I posted this on another thread too: many instances in the Bible, including the controversy over the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, has been substantiated by both historical and archeological evidence. When Paul, James, Peter, and many others were preaching about the resurrection, there is no record, even in the Palestinian Talmud, of anyone ever disputing what these men and women had witnessed. Jesus was on the earth for 40 days before His assension (sp?) and had spoken to groups of people up to 5,000. His ministry was real, and He quoted quite a bit from the existing scriptures (which is now the OT). So we know historically Jesus, His ministry, death, resurrection, and assension was real, and in His ministry He validated the OT, which also has alot of strong support hisorically and archeaologically.
Like everything else, that all can be disputed, but it's the closest I've seen to any kind of "evidence". But you weren't looking for that, so please just refer to my above reason.
I posted this on another thread too: many instances in the Bible, including the controversy over the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, has been substantiated by both historical and archeological evidence. When Paul, James, Peter, and many others were preaching about the resurrection, there is no record, even in the Palestinian Talmud, of anyone ever disputing what these men and women had witnessed. Jesus was on the earth for 40 days before His assension (sp?) and had spoken to groups of people up to 5,000. His ministry was real, and He quoted quite a bit from the existing scriptures (which is now the OT). So we know historically Jesus, His ministry, death, resurrection, and assension was real, and in His ministry He validated the OT, which also has alot of strong support hisorically and archeaologically.
Like everything else, that all can be disputed, but it's the closest I've seen to any kind of "evidence". But you weren't looking for that, so please just refer to my above reason.
C
charles cure
Guest
ggazoo said:
pretty smart for a simple jewish carpenter.
there is little or no support for the OT or the NT in history or archaeology. oh, sure, they refer to actual places on earth from time to time, or other figures whose existence can be substantiated, but even some of those details are wrong in the bible. its what we would call "historical fiction" in the modern world. just because its got some facts woven in doesn't make its ultimate claims true, as the theist critics of the DaVinci code are so fond of pointing out.
Josephus was a noted historian and here is a passage he wrote in 93 A.D.:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accursed by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prohesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.
Another well noted historian was actually the writer of two of the books of the Bible- Luke. Archaeology has shown that he was write in many of his descriptions. Luke refered to Lysanias asbeing the tetrarch of Abilene in 27 A.D. For years scholars were using this to disprove Luke's credibility since Lysanias was not a tetrarch but a ruler 50 years earlier, but later we see archaeological evidence to prove Luke's statement:
"An inscription was later found from the time of Tiberius, from A.D. 14 to 37, which names Lysanias as tetrarch in Abila near Damascus- just as Luke had written."- John McRay, Ph.D.
"It's extremely significant that Luke has been established to be a scrupulously accurate historian, even in the smallest details. One prominent archaeologist carefully examined Luke's references to thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands, finding not a single mistake."- McRay
Historian Michael Grant stated in his book Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels, "True, the discovery ofthe empty tomb is differently described by the various gospels, but if we apply the same sort of criteria that we would apply to any other ancient literary sources, then the evidence is firm and plausible enough to necessitate the conclusion that the tomb was, indeed, found empty."
But I digress, and my apologies to spiritual_spy for even bringing this up, this wasn't part of his orginal question.
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accursed by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prohesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.
Another well noted historian was actually the writer of two of the books of the Bible- Luke. Archaeology has shown that he was write in many of his descriptions. Luke refered to Lysanias asbeing the tetrarch of Abilene in 27 A.D. For years scholars were using this to disprove Luke's credibility since Lysanias was not a tetrarch but a ruler 50 years earlier, but later we see archaeological evidence to prove Luke's statement:
"An inscription was later found from the time of Tiberius, from A.D. 14 to 37, which names Lysanias as tetrarch in Abila near Damascus- just as Luke had written."- John McRay, Ph.D.
"It's extremely significant that Luke has been established to be a scrupulously accurate historian, even in the smallest details. One prominent archaeologist carefully examined Luke's references to thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine islands, finding not a single mistake."- McRay
Historian Michael Grant stated in his book Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels, "True, the discovery ofthe empty tomb is differently described by the various gospels, but if we apply the same sort of criteria that we would apply to any other ancient literary sources, then the evidence is firm and plausible enough to necessitate the conclusion that the tomb was, indeed, found empty."
But I digress, and my apologies to spiritual_spy for even bringing this up, this wasn't part of his orginal question.
RoyLennigan
Registered Senior Member
people believe in religion for the same reason they speak the specific language they do.
ggazoo. The reasons you stated for Jesus' ressurrection being true, mean thatthe mass sightings of leprechauns in Mobile, Alabama are also true as a result of your reasoning.
You and I both know there are no such things as leprechauns, yet people for some reason enjoy thinking they are very real. You and I should also both know that nobody ever has, or ever will, be raised from the dead to ascend to heaven.
Nobody goes to heaven on a winged horse either.
You must concede that if there is such a thing as a historical Jesus, then much of his story (such as virgin birth, and ascention), are just added for effect.
You and I both know there are no such things as leprechauns, yet people for some reason enjoy thinking they are very real. You and I should also both know that nobody ever has, or ever will, be raised from the dead to ascend to heaven.
Nobody goes to heaven on a winged horse either.
You must concede that if there is such a thing as a historical Jesus, then much of his story (such as virgin birth, and ascention), are just added for effect.
surely though, its wrong to believe in god for personal rewards (seeing yor father again) i'm sorry for your loss but surely you should believe in your god because he created you and loved you and looked after you or whatever that shit you believe is 
KennyJC said:
Fairy tales... hmmmm...
Well, there have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.
Nevertheless the Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree. This is an amazing thing for any writer to say, and if the forty or so men who wrote the Scriptures were wrong in these claims, then they must have been lying, or insane, or both.
But, on the other hand, if the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?
If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.
The evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.
There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.
There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.
The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:
"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:
• Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
• Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
• Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
• Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
• Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
• Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
• Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
• Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
• Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
• and many others.
These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.
It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible -- in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.
The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.
The individual writers, at the time of writing, had no idea that their message was eventually to be incorporated into such a Book, but each nevertheless fits perfectly into place and serves its own unique purpose as a component of the whole. Anyone who diligently studies the Bible will continually find remarkable structural and mathematical patterns woven throughout its fabric, with an intricacy and symmetry incapable of explanation by chance or collusion.
The one consistent theme of the Bible, developing in grandeur from Genesis to Revelation, is God's great work in the creation and redemption of all things, through His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.
One final evidence that the Bible is true is found in the testimony of those who have believed it. Multitudes of people, past and present, have found from personal experience that its promises are true, its counsel is sound, its commands and restrictions are wise, and its wonderful message of salvation meets every need for both time and eternity.
You can do a google search and find an endless number of resources on the accuracy, validity, and/or trustworthiness of the bible.
That's all I've got.
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"The bible is a load of old bollocks"
"The bible is a load of old bollocks"
"The bible is a load of old bollocks"
"The bible is a load of old bollocks"
How is making a claim repeatedly an amazing thing?
Stone prostitutes to death is the "most perfect moral code"?
Except for all the 'messages' that didn't fit perfectly into place and as such were discarded?
There is no evidence in that statement.
Here is the major flaw i see in the bible. The diffrence between the god the OT and the NT. The old testament god sent enitre cities into a sluaghter and the NT god preaches love, peace and acceptance. Plus, the entire idea of hell to me seems almost sadistic(Sp?). Sending people into eternal fire just for sins during a finte lifespan? I mean come on? How is that just? i think people should be punished if they did wrong but that is the equivelent (sp?) of sentencing a man to death for a parking violation.
ggazoo said:
You mean like the site you lifted that from:
http://www.gmau.org/ThinkingCaps/tcap33.htm
RoyLennigan
Registered Senior Member
as a human being, you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking that any text, no matter who it was written by, is absolute truth. the idea is just absurd. first of all, the text means nothing if you don't have any association to the words. second, your association to the words determines the meaning the text has. third, you have to take into consideration the cultural context it is in, which we will never know for sure.
the only word of god that can be taken literally is the world around you. if god created the universe, then the best way to learn about god would be to study the universe, not a book.
the only word of god that can be taken literally is the world around you. if god created the universe, then the best way to learn about god would be to study the universe, not a book.