Germanwings Tragedy - Is it now all about the money?

[Yazata]

and perhaps notice that the worlds media on issue has suddenly gone quiet since about midday yesterday.

I just went to Google News and did a search for news stories containing the word 'Germanwings' published in the last 24 hours and got thousands of hits.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ger...d&sa=X&ei=hXskVb3xI8eRoQSKnYGoBg&ved=0CA8QpwU

 

[Quantum Quack]

So you think aluminum is stronger than stone?

Maybe someone else can offer an answer to such a silly question?
>600kph on a dirt covered slope.
How much does an A320 weigh?

 

[Quantum Quack]

I just went to Google News and did a search for news stories containing the word 'Germanwings' published in the last 24 hours and got thousands of hits.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ger...d&sa=X&ei=hXskVb3xI8eRoQSKnYGoBg&ved=0CA8QpwU

so did I and got one the latest ...that was 17hours old 3 hours ago..

 

[Quantum Quack]

interesting article about compensation speculation. dated 2015/04/01
http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...4u9525-how-much-compensation-will-be-paid-out

 

[Randwolf]

so did I and got one the latest ...that was 17hours old 3 hours ago..

I get this from 11 hours ago - as of now - 21:29 EST - how closely do you want the news outlets to follow?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/opinions/abend-co-pilot-warning-signs/

Your paranoid rantings are demonstrably absurd...

 

[Kittamaru]

I see six wheels in total... any sign of the missing 5?

Probably somewhere else in the wreckage... I'm kind of not there to do the photographing myself. Also, where are you getting five wheels from?

As you can see, an Airbus A320 has three sets of landing gear - A dual set in the nose gear, and two quartets in the rear... last I checked, 4+4+2 = 10, not 5...

They made sure they photographed the finding of the FDR but for some inexplicable reason they failed to photograph and properly document the finding of the CVR. ( no location )

What is ironic about this is just how incredibly WRONG you are...

That IS the CVR
Source - https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...xpect-germanwings-fdr-will-yield-useable-data

THIS is the FDR:

Source - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nd-issues-with-German-aviation-regulator.html

Seriously, at least get your facts straight if you're going to make up crazy half-assed theories.

This is most irregular for a crash scene investigation.
The CVR can not actually be evidential-ly placed at the crash site.

Maybe they are keeping it a secret?

Someone is in trouble I bet...

See above...

what else is missing from this crash site .... ?

An impact crater for starters.

Why would there be an impact crater? Do recall from 9/11, US Flight 93:

That's a fucking Boeing 757... 47 meters long, with a 38 foot wingspan, carrying 42,600 liters of fuel . The A320 is 33 meters long with a 35 meter wingspan with 23,800 liters of fuel.

The 757 impacted a grassy dirt field in northern Pennsylvaia... at most it would have met some sheetrock/shale... and it made a pretty minor divot in the ground.

Why the hell would you expect an A320, upon impacting a rocky mountainside, to create any kind of substantial crater? Not to mention the terrain is so varied there that any kind of crater would look par for the course anyway!

It actually looks like the plane may have exploded, shredded, disintegrated just before hitting the ground. at a height of about 100- 200 meters.
and no bodies nor sign of body parts being present (blood)

You do realize how hot jet fuel burns, right? Why would there be anything recognizable as blood... or a body? It'd be so charred that you would no doubt have NO idea what you were looking at (after all, you couldn't even count how many wheels an A320 had just a moment ago)

looks more like rubbish dump with some convenient aviation stuff placed strategically than a crash site...

"An A320 flies into a mountain at over 600kph with a force that totally disintegrates both engines (except one conveniently placed housing) and most other hard parts and leaves no impact crater"​

Good lord, the Paranoia continues!

there is still heaps to report... but maybe they are trying to work out how to deal with the truth rather than continue to perpetrate the charade.

Now if only we could find some way to get you to deal with the truth, instead of perpetrating this disgusting charade...

The look on one of USA senior news readers speaks volumes about his opinion as to the credibility of the interviewees, may be he took his journo intuition seriously and started checking...

Oh yes, because a USA Reader would know more about this than an acredited expert...

Maybe one of the passengers or crew have turned up somewhere, like my Iranian Asylum seeker friend...who was supposed to be on-board the missing MH370

And maybe my ass spits out bricks of solid gold...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Probably somewhere else in the wreckage... I'm kind of not there to do the photographing myself. Also, where are you getting five wheels from?

As you can see, an Airbus A320 has three sets of landing gear - A dual set in the nose gear, and two quartets in the rear... last I checked, 4+4+2 = 10, not 5...

thanks for the correction my mistake... so we have 9 unaccounte[ for wheels and not 1 as I mistakenly thought... sheesh! 9 missing wheels...
now where could they be...?

What is ironic about this is just how incredibly WRONG you are...

That IS the CVR
Source - https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...xpect-germanwings-fdr-will-yield-useable-data

THIS is the FDR:

Source - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nd-issues-with-German-aviation-regulator.html

Seriously, at least get your facts straight if you're going to make up crazy half-assed theories.

No what you posted above is confirming what I have already posted...
perfect except now we have an image of the FDR.
Nice one...apologize for your ridicule! ( as if you would!)

Compare the two recorders and suggest a way the CVR managed to survive like it did?
including the paint remaining...

Why would there be an impact crater? Do recall from 9/11, US Flight 93:

That's a fucking Boeing 757... 47 meters long, with a 38 foot wingspan, carrying 42,600 liters of fuel . The A320 is 33 meters long with a 35 meter wingspan with 23,800 liters of fuel.

The 757 impacted a grassy dirt field in northern Pennsylvaia... at most it would have met some sheetrock/shale... and it made a pretty minor divot in the ground.

Why the hell would you expect an A320, upon impacting a rocky mountainside, to create any kind of substantial crater? Not to mention the terrain is so varied there that any kind of crater would look par for the course anyway!

A relatively soft landing given the amount of disintegration show in this case. Don't you think?
what speed did the plane you use as an example, hit the ground?
>600kph on an angled slope.... hmmm...

You do realize how hot jet fuel burns, right? Why would there be anything recognizable as blood... or a body? It'd be so charred that you would no doubt have NO idea what you were looking at (after all, you couldn't even count how many wheels an A320 had just a moment ago)

why would there be a lot of things displayed in the images... good question...

Your need, nay, compulsion to insult and ridicule is very indicative of paranoia...
Is that a BUK missile system in your pocket?

 

[Quantum Quack]

An interesting thought about my Iranian friend..
I wonder how much compensation his mother in Amsterdam got for his apparent death aboard MH370.
Now this I can check out rather easily....
$50k usd initially after 3 months....hmmm

 

[Kittamaru]

thanks for the correction my mistake... so we have 9 unaccounte[ for wheels and not 1 as I mistakenly thought... sheesh! 9 missing wheels... now where could they be...?

Again, probably somewhere else in the wreckage? Perhaps already collected? Or do you expect them to just leave the wreckage there...?

No what you posted above is confirming what I have already posted...
perfect except now we have an image of the FDR.
Nice one...apologize for your ridicule! ( as if you would!)

So why do you insist on calling the CVR the "black box"? The "black box" is the FDR... and to quote:

compare these two recovered flight recorders:

So we have no credible CVR

Again , just to help...

compare these two recovered flight recorders:

So, no less than THREE TIMES, you called it a Flight Recorder...

So, you can take your request for apology and go pound sand, since what I said was factually correct.

Compare the two recorders and suggest a way the CVR managed to survi8ve like it did?
including the paint remaining...

Simple - upon impact, it probably broke free from its mounting point and ended up rolling/bouncing/falling/otherwise settling outside the immediate impact zone.

A relatively soft landing given the amount of disintegration show in this case. Don't you think?
what speed did the plane you use as an example, hit the ground?
>600kph on an angled slope.... hmmm...

How fast did Fight 93 impact the ground? Simple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
TheNational Transportation Safety Board reported that the flight impacted at 563 mph (906 km/h, 252 m/s, or 489 knots) at a 40-degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[64] All 44 people on board died.[65]

Almost half again the 600kph impact speed you stated... factor in the additional mass and fuel load of a 757, and it isn't hard to see a simple truth here - the much larger, heavier, more massive, and faster moving plane impacted a DIRT FIELD at a steep angle and left a relatively small crater. The smaller, slower, less massive aircraft hit a ROCK CLIFF and left little to no crater... what's so hard to figure out here?

why would there be a lot of things displayed in the images... good question...

Uhm... because it's a picture of a crash zone...? What, do you want them to edit it for you or something?

 

[Kittamaru]

Now, as it stands, it is quarter after 10pm... I have work in the morning... so I'm going to bed.

I'm certain I'll come back tomorrow to a host of new bullshit to debunk

 

[Quantum Quack]

Again, probably somewhere else in the wreckage? Perhaps already collected? Or do you expect them to just leave the wreckage there...?



So why do you insist on calling the CVR the "black box"? The "black box" is the FDR... and to quote:









So, no less than THREE TIMES, you called it a Flight Recorder...

So, you can take your request for apology and go pound sand, since what I said was factually correct.

ok I see how I may have confused you... A CVR is a flight recorder and so to is a FDR a flight recorder. One involves sound recordings and one involved digital flight data recoding.
I do apologize for your confusion...

re: CVR - Simple - upon impact, it probably broke free from its mounting point and ended up rolling/bouncing/falling/otherwise settling outside the immediate impact zone.

So you are saying that the evidence we are working with is inconclusive. That the tail section may have also done as you suggest for example or the engines or the missing 9 tires?

How fast did Fight 93 impact the ground? Simple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
TheNational Transportation Safety Board reported that the flight impacted at 563 mph (906 km/h, 252 m/s, or 489 knots) at a 40-degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[64] All 44 people on board died.[65]

Almost half again the 600kph impact speed you stated... factor in the additional mass and fuel load of a 757, and it isn't hard to see a simple truth here - the much larger, heavier, more massive, and faster moving plane impacted a DIRT FIELD at a steep angle and left a relatively small crater. The smaller, slower, less massive aircraft hit a ROCK CLIFF and left little to no crater... what's so hard to figure out here?

I wrote >600KPH. If I am not mistaken.

Also the impact of plane demonstrated by the unprecedented shredding and disintegration suggest that it hit the mountain side with an utterly staggering force....

 

[Quantum Quack]

Now, as it stands, it is quarter after 10pm... I have work in the morning... so I'm going to bed.

I'm certain I'll come back tomorrow to a host of new bullshit to debunk

hee hee... I am sure you will...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Now this is even more interesting...
Families of the lost MH370 passengers have banded together in an attempt to offer a reward of $US5 million to a whistle blower regarding to what happened to the missing plane.

hmmm now that IS interesting.... Info dated June 2013
I wonder if they are still offering a reward...

 

[billvon]

ok I see how I may have confused you... A CVR is a flight recorder and so to is a FDR a flight recorder.

CVR=cockpit voice recorder
FDR=flight data recorder
(I know you don't care; that information is for other people who may be following the thread.)

Also the impact of plane demonstrated by the unprecedented shredding and disintegration suggest that it hit the mountain side with an utterly staggering force....

Exactly. Hence the disintegration of the aircraft and the severe damage to the CVR.

 

[Kittamaru]

Ugh, insomnia is a bitch...

ok I see how I may have confused you... A CVR is a flight recorder and so to is a FDR a flight recorder. One involves sound recordings and one involved digital flight data recoding.
I do apologize for your confusion...

The only confusion is your attempt at confusing the issue - the Flight Recorder (which you referred to it several times as) or FDR is a separate entity from the CVR.

So you are saying that the evidence we are working with is inconclusive. That the tail section may have also done as you suggest for example or the engines or the missing 9 tires?

Not at all - I'm saying that I don't have pictures of the entire scene as it was before anyone got there... again, this is a good case for sitting and waiting for the professionals to finish gathering up the parts and put the wreckage together (you know, actual forensic analysis, rather than armchair theories)

I wrote >600KPH. If I am not mistaken.

Yes, you did... and I quoted:

How fast did Fight 93 impact the ground? Simple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
TheNational Transportation Safety Board reported that the flight impacted at 563 mph (906 km/h, 252 m/s, or 489 knots) at a 40-degree nose-down, inverted attitude.[19] The impact left a crater eight to ten feet deep (c. 3 m), and 30 to 50 feet wide (c. 12 m).[64] All 44 people on board died.[65]

Almost half again the 600kph impact speed you stated... factor in the additional mass and fuel load of a 757, and it isn't hard to see a simple truth here - the much larger, heavier, more massive, and faster moving plane impacted a DIRT FIELD at a steep angle and left a relatively small crater. The smaller, slower, less massive aircraft hit a ROCK CLIFF and left little to no crater... what's so hard to figure out here?

Now, unless you are having some serious issues with math... 900 KPH is half again 600 KPH...

Also the impact of plane demonstrated by the unprecedented shredding and disintegration suggest that it hit the mountain side with an utterly staggering force....

Okay, let me take you by the hand and walk you through this...

Kinetic Energy (joules) = .5m*V^2
Where m = mass of the object (in KG)
V = Velocity (in meters per second)
Mass of an A320 is roughly 83,000 kg... if it is travelling 600 kph (approx 167 m/s), we get .5*83000 * 167^2 = 1,157,393,500 joules... which works out to about 853,649,637 ft-lb of pressure... or nearly 250 kg of tnt...

That is a lot of energy... have you ever seen a 250 kg bomb go off? For comparison:

Now, granted, they use just over 350 kg of explosives... but as you can see, there is very little left of that cement truck, aside from the engine block (which was about as far from the center of the blast as you could get, all things considered).

 

[Quantum Quack]

Ugh, insomnia is a bitch...



The only confusion is your attempt at confusing the issue - the Flight Recorder (which you referred to it several times as) or FDR is a separate entity from the CVR.


Not at all - I'm saying that I don't have pictures of the entire scene as it was before anyone got there... again, this is a good case for sitting and waiting for the professionals to finish gathering up the parts and put the wreckage together (you know, actual forensic analysis, rather than armchair theories)



Yes, you did... and I quoted:


Now, unless you are having some serious issues with math... 900 KPH is half again 600 KPH...



Okay, let me take you by the hand and walk you through this...

Kinetic Energy (joules) = .5m*V^2
Where m = mass of the object (in KG)
V = Velocity (in meters per second)
Mass of an A320 is roughly 83,000 kg... if it is travelling 600 kph (approx 167 m/s), we get .5*83000 * 167^2 = 1,157,393,500 joules... which works out to about 853,649,637 ft-lb of pressure... or nearly 250 kg of tnt...

That is a lot of energy... have you ever seen a 250 kg bomb go off? For comparison:

Now, granted, they use just over 350 kg of explosives... but as you can see, there is very little left of that cement truck, aside from the engine block (which was about as far from the center of the blast as you could get, all things considered).

Would u expect to see an impact crater or not, given such a huge amount of force is involved? Or even an intense zone of some point indicating first point of contact with the nose of the plane?

 

[billvon]

Would u expect to see an impact crater or not, given such a huge amount of force is involved?

If it hit a beach? Definitely. If it hit the side of a mountain? No.

Or even an intense zone of some point indicating first point of contact with the nose of the plane?

I'd expect to see a large area where impact was evident - places where the nose hit, places where the engines hit, places where the wings hit, places where the tail hit etc. In fact I'd expect to see a mountainside full of debris, with much of the debris at the bottom of the mountain.

 

[Kittamaru]

Would u expect to see an impact crater or not, given such a huge amount of force is involved? Or even an intense zone of some point indicating first point of contact with the nose of the plane?

Billvon pretty well covered it already... your beating a dead horse here QQ... there's no reason for an aluminum aircraft to leave a giant crater in a stone rock face

 

[Quantum Quack]

If it hit a beach? Definitely. If it hit the side of a mountain? No.

I'd expect to see a large area where impact was evident - places where the nose hit, places where the engines hit, places where the wings hit, places where the tail hit etc. In fact I'd expect to see a mountainside full of debris, with much of the debris at the bottom of the mountain.

that's a strange assessment...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Billvon pretty well covered it already... your beating a dead horse here QQ... there's no reason for an aluminum aircraft to leave a giant crater in a stone rock face

who says it has to be a giant crater?

just think,
You have a cylinder of about 37.57 meters in length with 150 seats, a cock pit and other stuff all flying at 700kph (re: wiki) into a near perpendicular (to the craft) wall of dirt and rock with a little scrub.

I would expect that the cylinder would fully collapse head on into the near perpendicular wall with a penetration force of the equivalent to (194.45 meters/second).....
.5*83000kg = 41500
45100 * 195.45^2 = 1,722,851,683 joules.
So the total penetration force would be equivalent to 1,722,851,683 joules.
(thanks Kittamaru for the formulation to work from)

yes?

Or should we multiply that by the full weight instead of only half?
which would give us:

83000kg * 195.45^2 = 3,170,658,308 joules

I would therefore expect to see a dint in the wall at least and a radial output of wreckage indicating even subtly, a center of impact. Allowing for debris to move down the slope slightly after settling.

Is this reasonable thing to expect?

I see none of this at all which suggest that the craft may have inexplicably disintegrated above/before the crash site (probably about 100-200 meters) before hitting the wall of rock, soil and scrub. (Assuming it is a credible crash site to begin with)

 

[Quantum Quack]

see any seating in the images?