Greatest I Am's anti-religion thread

[Stephen H]

So drop this anti-muslim shit and get lost.

See, there you go again. It is ISLAM that I have a problem with.

 

[Stephen H]

you're even more irrational than most..

OPINION!

So yes, you have an irrational fear.

OPINION, again.

 

[billvon]

OPINION! OPINION, again.

Not opinion.

A fear based on data - rational
A fear based on media caricatures, religious fervor and irrational prejudices - irrational

 

[Stephen H]

"So are you telling us that none of those survivors are still afraid and traumatized from the horrific Islamic attack. And if they are, they are being "irrational"? Grow up and get real. These were targeted women and children we are talking about?

Not at all.

So there fears are RATIONAL then. And many who weren't directly in the Islamic violence , are they wrong to fear another Islamic attack?

 

[sideshowbob]

And many who weren't directly in the Islamic violence , are they wrong to fear another Islamic attack?

Fear has little to do with "right" or "wrong". We all feel fear in one way or another. It's a useful emotion.

What's wrong is focusing that fear on Islam. In Canada, for example, our most recent terrorist attack was a white-supremacist nut attacking a mosque. It's the Muslims who have reason to fear anti-Muslim hatred.

 

[DaveC426913]

So there fears are RATIONAL then. And many who weren't directly in the Islamic violence , are they wrong to fear another Islamic attack?

You keep using these words interchangeably. Right and wrong are not rational and irrational.

You are attempting to equate an assessment of fact and analysis with empathy for hurting victims, and then getting upset when we examine the facts. That is a straw man. Stop it.

Pick which you want to discuss: either the hurt of the victims, or the rationality of fear of terrorism.

 

[DaveC426913]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...fdeathforgreatermanchesterbyitsccgsandengland

Leading causes of death for Greater Manchester (by its CCGs) and England

Ischaemic heart diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3,278
Dementia and Alzheimer's disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2,832
Chronic lower respiratory diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1,760
Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung . . . . . . . . . .1,751
Cerebrovascular diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1,543
Influenza and pneumonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,330
Malignant neoplasm of colon, sigmoid, rectum and anus . . . . . . . . 644
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 518
Malignant neoplasms of lymphoid, haematopoietic and related tissue . .452
Malignant neoplasm of prostate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .422
Malignant neoplasms of breast . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 418
Diseases of the urinary system . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .364
Accidental falls . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .363
Malignant neoplasm of pancreas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .342
Malignant neoplasm of oesophagus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .310
Pulmonary oedema and other intestinal pulmonary diseases . . . . . . .263
Suicide and injury/poisoning of undetermined intent . . . . . . . . . 261
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart disease . . . . 242
Acute respiratory diseases other than influenza and pneumonia . . . . 237
Nonrheumatic valve disorders . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .234
Aortic aneurysm and dissection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .227
Malignant neoplasm of liver and intraheptic bile ducts. . . . . . . . 225
Malignant neoplasm of bladder . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 217
Hypertensive diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 210
Malignant neoplasm of stomach . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200
Diabetes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .195
Accidental poisoning . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .188
Cardiac arrhythmias . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 181
Parkinson's disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 173
Malignant neoplasm of brain . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145
Malignant neoplasm of ovary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 137
Malignant neoplasm of kidney, except renal pelvis . . . . . . . . . . 133
Septicaemia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131
Benign neoplasms, in situ and uncertain behaviour . . . . . . . . . . 131
Diseases of the musculoskeletal system and connective tissue . . . . .125
Appendicitis, hernia and intestinal obstruction . . . . . . . . . . . 110
Pulmonary heart disease and diseases of pulmonary circulation . . . . 109
Malignant neoplasm of uterus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .103
Melanoma and other malignant neoplasms of skin . . . . . . . . . . . . 97
Systemic atrophies primarily affecting the central nervous system . . .65
Intestinal infectious diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Land transport accidents . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59
Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities . 57
Cardiomyopathy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55
Malignant neoplasm of larynx . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39
Malignant neoplasm of gallbladder and other parts of biliary tract . . 28
******************************
Homicide and probable homicide . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
******************************
Mental and behavioural disorders due to psychoactive substance use . . 22
Chronic rheumatic heart diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
Epilepsy and status epilepticus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12
Certain conditions originating in the perinatal period . . . . . . . . 11
Accidental threats to breathing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
Human immunodeficiency virus [HIV] disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Tuberculosis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3


And that's all murders. Terrorist attacks will be a smaller fraction still. They have orders of magnitude more to fear from heart disease, cancer and auto accidents than from terrorist attacks.

Yes, death by terrorist is an irrational fear.


And - for the record - saying so does not detract one iota from the pain and grief they are suffering.

 

[Stephen H]

You keep using these words interchangeably.

No I don't , you're just are having problems with what I am saying. A phobia is an IRRATIONAL fear of something.

It is NOT IRRATIONAL for those children and women directly and indirectly involved in that Islamic attack on Manchester to fear islam and another attack in its name. It IS RATIONAL for them to fear another attack .

 

[Dinosaur]

From billvon Post 435

Extremist atheists are as bad as extremist Muslims or Christians

I have read about lot of of folks killed by Christian & Islamic fanatics.

Note the various inquisitions (especially the Spanish Catholic) & the Salem Witch Trials (Protestant, I think).​

I do not know of any killed by atheists, other than communists in Russia who do not have any agenda in common with the typical atheist. Actually the typical atheist has no agenda: Few if any are evangelistic.​

.​

 

[billvon]

Note the various inquisitions (especially the Spanish Catholic) & the Salem Witch Trials (Protestant, I think).

I do not know of any killed by atheists, other than communists in Russia who do not have any agenda in common with the typical atheist. Actually the typical atheist has no agenda: Few if any are evangelistic.​

​

The Tamil Tigers (LTTE) are (or were) a secular, pro-atheist terrorist organization. They killed thousands in Sri Lanka before they were finally defeated by government soldiers. They have the distinction of being the first terrorist group to use suicide belts to target civilians.

 

[DaveC426913]

It IS RATIONAL for them to fear another attack .

As the table in post 447 shows, no it is not. The chance of being killed by terrorist is less than 0.5% of other ways to die in Manchester.

That does not mean their terror is unwarranted. They are most certainly traumatized. They have every right and reason to be irrational about terrorism.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Why Islam? Why single out one religion?

What's different about it, what does it urge its followers to do that say, Christianity doesn't?
And why does the existence of this one Islamic sect you talk about mean Islam should be feared? Should I not be afraid of Christian sects who want my children to learn about creationism, or how it's ok to have as many wives as you like?

What's different about it, what does it urge its followers to do that say, Christianity doesn't?

theological evaluation by comparrisons...
possibly not where you were intending to point to ?
though if you were, you might need to quantify a simple short list of religions and the death count they have attributed to religous war.
possibly also cross linked to current population counts of followers who adhere and promote the same model of theological ideology as a social norm and rule of law.

its too early for me to do the stats

And why does the existence of this one Islamic sect

part of the loss of some concepts of non violent morality get lost in the forward and backward wash of the swing between actual models of religion and cults.
be those cults inside a religion.
thus:
does a religion that promotes a death penalty eqtuate to be a cult ? (i would argue yes.)

sect you talk about mean Islam should be feared?

rhetorical ?
wako texas, moonies "dont drink the coolaid... etc etc plenty of examples to show were a sect invalidates the model of religion when you follow it back from the cult to the religion in ideology

Should I not be afraid of Christian sects who want my children to learn about creationism

yes
though i say yes only as a motivator for you to prvent it absolutely.
such behaviour is wholesale book burning

or how it's ok to have as many wives as you like?

cross comparrison to cultural models of social function show cattle class intellectual dogma to define the absolute intellectual value of women has no compulsory adherance to religion.
it appears to be some type of cave-man like base mode that re-enters the psyche of the damaged mind to seek out self actualisation of percieved control of the physical world when the mind has been distorted to percieve materialism as an abslute of religous ideological manifestation.

note having multiple sexual partners and promoting herd brides as a ideology are 2 completely different things.
equally there is still a large proportion of self acclaimed modern civilised hetro monogamous couples who declare and beleive that same sex couples should not be allowed to marry or raise children.
it is a very murky world trying to draw a line between these ideologys in the minds of the majority.
keeping in mind modern moral ideology although easily shown on TV is by far not the majority.
8 billion people ?
probably only around 15% to 20% would beleive and accept same sex couples being allowed to marry and raise children.
the theological links and connections to this are un pickable to the simplistic way many people have been brain washed.
p.s what i have been pondering for a few years now is what the modality of behavioural normalisation by association does to the founding ideological achetype.
is the acceptance of change merely like a brain washing cover to the base beleif ?
do these types of minds simply existlike a water colour paint coating that after a while on non emersion wash off and the base modes of associations start to dominate the base behaviour models.
its extremely tyring to mentaly compute and ive not had the energy to wade into such mental dirty water for some time.
be that as it may. this question really should be asked for discussion purposes on psychological anthropology level.
it may well unlock some far deeper undertsanding of the direction of modern society.