How could US drop the a-bomb on Civilians?

[joepistole]

USSR would do it, even after years. we all know the hostility between the two governmnts.
India developed nuclear bombs in 30 years.
The USSR being such mighty could do it real short time. we should not always blindly follow what is printed in newspaper.
still many americans don't know why the government invaded afghanistan.
i don't worry about any historic authencity here. real thing is bomb was dropped, people were killed and i don't want such thing to happen again.

USSR developed nuclear weapons so quickly by stealing the technology...minor detail.

And what constitutes "many". Most Americans know why the US invaded Afghanistan.

 

[madethesame]

Why is that the “most” important thing…more important than millions of lives? Countries do have military secrets. No successful military has intentionally divulged its battle secrets and abilities. It is rather stupid to do so. Allied civilians were not asked before D day either. We have generals and chain of command for a reason.
so you like such secrets. did i praise pearl harbor bombing ?
to me both are two sides of same coin.
You need to check your history. The USSR stole US nuclear technology. And sure, the USSR had the ability to attack the US with nuclear weapons. But the USSR never had the ability to survive such an attack as you point out. And Russia didn’t invade or attack the US as Japan did. The Russia and the US were allied during WWII. The USSR never had the opportunity which was presented to the Americans. The USSR was never faced with the situation the US faced in dropping nuclear weapons on Japan. Those are important distinctions.
it is open secret russians went to space first. this technology stealing thing is very weird.
the atomic theories are already mentioned in indian vedas. see now US government stole it.
In war and in life, "almost" doesn’t count. Operation Downfall, the US invasion of Japan, would have resulted in the loss of millions of lives, civilian and military. Japan wasn’t going to surrender. Even after the atomic bombs were dropped, Japan didn’t immediately surrender. After the Emperor had decided to surrender, elements of his military revolted and staged a coup to prevent the Emperor from surrendering. The fact is, Japan was still fighting...defeated or not. Japanese sailors, soldiers, and pilots were still attacking US assets in the region.
my dear i dont want to die. you too dont want to die.
did US government had any humility ?
why not throw bombs on all terrorist, kill their whole country so terrorists never come back.
An already defeated country that was still fighting and still killing thousands of people with each passing day, kamikazes were attacking US shipping daily. A state of war existed between Japan and the US and war was still being fought. Japan was warned by the US, that it had a new and devastating weapon and would use it if Japan didn’t surrender and Japan didn’t surrender and the bombs were dropped as promised.
what kind of weapon they said ? did they explain in detail all that radiation poisoing, nucler rain etc ?
excuse to drop a bomb.
i am not writing against any US people, the government made fools of people.
They already tested it and it worked. They tested it inside the US.
did your people approve the killing ?
did they test on real people ?
the test here also carried power to scare all the others.
as i have written i dont care for historic accuracy. the government had intentions and they acted upon those intentions.
Yes people are people, but that is like saying dogs are dogs. So you would prefer that 11 million people died in the end days of the war rather than the 150k to 250k who died in the nuclear attacks? Is that what you are telling me? Because that is the choice the US faced before dropping the nuclear bombs on Japan.
dogs and people are same. no one is lower.
Especially when they don’t support your contentions…

Well, actually it does…especially during that time period. Prior to WWII the US had no interest in foreign wars. But it was dragged into it after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, declared war on the US and subsequently attacked the Midway Islands and Germany declared war on the US in support of its Axis power (i.e. Japan).
The nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan and with the support of the American people for the reasons I have previously given. You argue there was an alternative which you cannot define in any meaningful way, much less prove. The fact remains that an 11 million lives were saved with the dropping of those bombs on Japan. Would you rather 11 million more dead through conventional warfare? Death in a flash or nuclear radiation is more merciful than being incinerated alive or stabbed, starved, beaten, drowned, or shot to death. Death by conventional warfare isn’t so nice either. And conventional warfare, especially at that time and at that place, didn’t discriminate between civilians and combatants. Japanese civilians committed suicide rather than surrender. Surrender wasn’t something Japanese culture allowed. Surrender was an anathema to Japanese citizens both civilian and military and that is one reason why the Japanese death count was so high during WWII.

well actually it is my mistake to write bit incomplete history.
the government fooled the people.
the oil tankers were not blasted.
two spies were hanged in Japan 1944. they were 'responsible' for 'pearl harbor attack'.
it was not a surprise attack, but a reason to incite americans people, the bomb follows. you too know about churchill, allies could have won early, but he never wanted that.
A japanese man knew about this plan of Japanese attack, he was only one to be hanged in japan.
he told US government about it, the government took oil tankers away, but not the civillians.

tell me why US army is in afghanistan ?

 

[cosmictraveler]

USSR would do it, even after years. we all know the hostility between the two governmnts.
India developed nuclear bombs in 30 years.
The USSR being such mighty could do it real short time. we should not always blindly follow what is printed in newspaper.
still many americans don't know why the government invaded afghanistan.
i don't worry about any historic authencity here. real thing is bomb was dropped, people were killed and i don't want such thing to happen again.

What hostilities between which governments?

Afghanistan was invaded because America thought that Bin Laden was there working with terrorists to do more bad things around the world. Although Bin Laden wasn't there his terrorist friends were, the Taliban, they did his work for him. America is in the process of leaving Afghanistan and has very few troops left there now as compared to a few years ago. The newspapers dis say why America was going into Afghanistan so I don't know where you got that information from that Americans didn't know why.

Everyone does not to start wars but sometimes you must to protect your country from terrorists or invasions.

I do agree that many times the media does not tell us the truth we should try to find it ourselves and with the internet it is much easier today to do so.

 

[Dinosaur]

I have not read all of the Posts to this Thread. I apologize for Posting anything redundant.

Questioning the use of the A-Bomb in WW2 more than 20 yeas after the war is extreme Monday morning quarter backing. It is now circa 70 years after the war.

There are many actions which seem like a good idea & are later regretted. I do not classify the use of A-bombs in WW2 as such an action, although I do not consider it to be an outrageous POV.

Consider the Japanese Hari Kuri custom. It was reasonable to believe that they would defend Japan with suicidal fanaticism. This strongly suggests that invasion by ground troops would result in many deaths of both Japanese & invading troops.

An alternative to invasion would be fire bombing of their cities, which might have caused as many or more deaths than the A-Bombs.

 

[joepistole]

What hostilities between which governments?

Afghanistan was invaded because America thought that Bin Laden was there working with terrorists to do more bad things around the world. Although Bin Laden wasn't there his terrorist friends were, the Taliban, they did his work for him. America is in the process of leaving Afghanistan and has very few troops left there now as compared to a few years ago. The newspapers dis say why America was going into Afghanistan so I don't know where you got that information from that Americans didn't know why.

Everyone does not to start wars but sometimes you must to protect your country from terrorists or invasions.

I do agree that many times the media does not tell us the truth we should try to find it ourselves and with the internet it is much easier today to do so.

Actually, Bin Laden was in Afghanistan at the time of the US invasion of that country. But Baby Bush incompetence allowed Bin Laden to walk out of Tora Bora and go into hiding.

 

[joepistole]

well actually it is my mistake to write bit incomplete history.
the government fooled the people.
the oil tankers were not blasted.
two spies were hanged in Japan 1944. they were 'responsible' for 'pearl harbor attack'.
it was not a surprise attack, but a reason to incite americans people, the bomb follows. you too know about churchill, allies could have won early, but he never wanted that.
A japanese man knew about this plan of Japanese attack, he was only one to be hanged in japan.
he told US government about it, the government took oil tankers away, but not the civillians.

tell me why US army is in afghanistan ?

The attack was a surprise. We were not at war when Japan attacked Pear Harbor. Neither Japan or the US had declared war on each other at the time of the attack as negotiations were on going in Washington DC. If negotiations broke down, then war was a possible outcome. But unknown to the US, Japan had been planning the attack on Pearl Harbor for a very long time. People speculate all the time. Sometimes speculation becomes reality, but more often than not it doesn't. The US had no evidence or proof it deemed credible of an impending Japanese attack and you have no evidence it did. Speculation by a newspaper isn't evidence.

 

[Seattle]

Speaking of dropping bombs on civilians...I also was one of those civilians I grew up in N.C. and there was an air force base at the edge of town. There was a mistake (maybe a crash I can't remember) and a nuclear bomb was dropped in a farm field near the town (my town).

It was classified at the time and the public wasn't aware. By the time I was in college it had just been declassified and it was in political science class that I first learned that my hometown was almost bombed

All but one of the safety mechanisms had failed for detonation...one more and BOOM

 

[joepistole]

Speaking of dropping bombs on civilians...I also was one of those civilians I grew up in N.C. and there was an air force base at the edge of town. There was a mistake (maybe a crash I can't remember) and a nuclear bomb was dropped in a farm field near the town (my town).

It was classified at the time and the public wasn't aware. By the time I was in college it had just been declassified and it was in political science class that I first learned that my hometown was almost bombed

All but one of the safety mechanisms had failed for detonation...one more and BOOM

That is why we stopped flying around nukes. We accidentally bombed ourselves more than we bombed the enemy. Now we Putin flying his aged fleet of bombers around the world we can probably expect a few more accidental bombings.

 

[iceaura]

Questioning the use of the A-Bomb in WW2 more than 20 yeas after the war is extreme Monday morning quarter backing.

No, it isn't. It's recognition that the US did something horrible that it did not need to do.

It wasn't that the people making the decision did not know what they were doing, or made some kind of error in the confusion of the moment. They were not confused, and they were well informed, and they had months to think about it - they did evil with their eyes wide open.

 

[joepistole]

No, it isn't. It's recognition that the US did something horrible that it did not need to do.

Oh, so instead of 250k people dying in the two bombings, you would much rather have millions of men women and children die in a prolonged war. It's horrible that people died in a nuclear blast. But it isn't horrible if people stab, shoot, strangle, starve, dismember, or burn men women and children in traditional combat? I think you morals are a little lacking or your biases are ruling the roost.

It wasn't that the people making the decision did not know what they were doing, or made some kind of error in the confusion of the moment. They were not confused, and they were well informed, and they had months to think about it - they did evil with their eyes wide open.

Yes the person who made the decision knew exactly what he was doing. He didn't make the decision lightly. Einstein, who was a pacifist, felt it necessary the US build the nuclear bomb and encouraged FDR to build it. No, there was no confusion in the decision to use nuclear weapons on Japan. President Truman ordered the bombs droped in order to save millions of lives. His strategy worked. Japan surrendered and the bloodshed stopped. Truman got it right. And today Japan is a peaceful, respected and prosperous nation.

"A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualties

 

[youreyes]

Nuclear bomb on civilian population used by USA during the so called end of World War II is the biggest human rights violation and a crime against a humanity ever committed on the face of this planet.

If we were ever to meet intelligent life outside our planet and become part of a greater post-Solar System civilization, the crimes of USA will have to be held accountable in court and leaders of USA (current) must be held accountable for the sins of their predecessors or they must renounce those who have supported the use of a nuclear bomb on civilian population and thus renounce the politics that they stand for now.

 

[spidergoat]

Nuclear bomb on civilian population used by USA during the so called end of World War II is the biggest human rights violation and a crime against a humanity ever committed on the face of this planet.

If we were ever to meet intelligent life outside our planet and become part of a greater post-Solar System civilization, the crimes of USA will have to be held accountable in court and leaders of USA (current) must be held accountable for the sins of their predecessors or they must renounce those who have supported the use of a nuclear bomb on civilian population and thus renounce the politics that they stand for now.

I'm OK with it. I think it was justified. But we get it, USA bad, Russia good.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

1. A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9.

The second bomb was dropped to test the second type of bomb.

 

[joepistole]

The second bomb was dropped to test the second type of bomb.

And where did you get that idea? Testing was conducted in The United States. The first detonation occurred inside The United States. President Truman issued a warning to Japan before the first bomb was dropped, "Truman then warned Japan: "If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill of which they are already well aware."[157]

And even after the second nuclear bomb was detonated on Japanese soil, Japanese soldiers were unwilling to surrender. They created a coup which was subsequently overthrown by the emperor. Japan was not one to surrender, a fact that was made obvious to allied forces fighting in the Pacific. Almost all Japanese soldiers were killed in combat. They didn't surrender.

 

[joepistole]

Nuclear bomb on civilian population used by USA during the so called end of World War II is the biggest human rights violation and a crime against a humanity ever committed on the face of this planet.

If we were ever to meet intelligent life outside our planet and become part of a greater post-Solar System civilization, the crimes of USA will have to be held accountable in court and leaders of USA (current) must be held accountable for the sins of their predecessors or they must renounce those who have supported the use of a nuclear bomb on civilian population and thus renounce the politics that they stand for now.

Yeah, we get it you don't like democracies. You like Soviet style governance and the good old days of Stalin's purges and the Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany where millions were sent to suffer and die in prison camps and Soviet style goulags (i.e. forced labor). But that doesn't mean everyone shares your likes.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

And where did you get that idea? Testing was conducted in The United States. The first detonation occurred inside The United States. President Truman issued a warning to Japan before the first bomb was dropped, "Truman then warned Japan: "If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill of which they are already well aware."[157]

And even after the second nuclear bomb was detonated on Japanese soil, Japanese soldiers were unwilling to surrender. They created a coup which was subsequently overthrown by the emperor. Japan was not one to surrender, a fact that was made obvious to allied forces fighting in the Pacific. Almost all Japanese soldiers were killed in combat. They didn't surrender.

The targets were chosen because they were cities that were relatively undamaged.
The USA wanted to assess the effectiveness of the weapons, in case they needed to use more of them.
Two different types of bombs were dropped because they wanted to know which worked best.
If you believe it was right to drop the bombs, this should not be a problem for you.

I'm not sure it's a problem for me.

 

[spidergoat]

The second bomb was dropped to test the second type of bomb.

And end the war. But you're right, they did confirm the "Mach stem", or additive shock wave effect where the original wave and the reflected wave from the ground combine.

 

[joepistole]

The targets were chosen because they were cities that were relatively undamaged.
The USA wanted to assess the effectiveness of the weapons, in case they needed to use more of them.
Two different types of bombs were dropped because they wanted to know which worked best.
If you believe it was right to drop the bombs, this should not be a problem for you.

I'm not sure it's a problem for me.

They didn't drop the bomb to test it. They dropped the bomb to incent Japan to surrender. Once the decision to drop the bomb was made, the US was going to gather as much information about explosion as possible. Scientific inquisitiveness doesn't mean it was the motive for the bombing, because it wasn't. You are mixing two very different things.

Today we release drugs to cure or manage various diseases, and we continue to study those medicines even after they have been released for general use. Our continued study of those medications doesn't mean we released the medicine to study the effects of those medicines.

 

[sculptor]

long ago, I had read that the 2nd bomb was dropped as a bargaining ploy for the attitudes of the USSR

 

[youreyes]

Speaking of dropping bombs on civilians...I also was one of those civilians I grew up in N.C. and there was an air force base at the edge of town. There was a mistake (maybe a crash I can't remember) and a nuclear bomb was dropped in a farm field near the town (my town).

It was classified at the time and the public wasn't aware. By the time I was in college it had just been declassified and it was in political science class that I first learned that my hometown was almost bombed

All but one of the safety mechanisms had failed for detonation...one more and BOOM

which town in N.C.?