How smart are insects?

Write4U said:
Define smell and you have your answer. Another fundamental ability of processing chemical signals in most animals (in one form or another). The moon-moth uses pheromones as far as 2o miles to call a mate. They were using scent as a wireless communication long time before us. It was just transmitted chemically.
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Bio-chemically transmitted
 
river said:
The Universe is a mathematical function of .......
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Geometric structure of spacetime which mathematiclally allows or forbids for certain physical action to be consistent. *Constants*

As I understand it, Chemistry, among other potentials, follows strict mathematical rules of interacting, depending on external conditions, such as heat, cold, pressure.
 
Write4U said:
Geometric structure of spacetime which mathematiclally allows or forbids for certain physical action to be consistent. *Constants*
Chemistry, among other potentials, follows strict mathematical rules of interacting, depending on external conditions, such as heat, cold, pressure.
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That's a list, not understanding. You can learn a rule, but that rule can have so many applications as part of so many complex processes that knowing the rule will get you only a very little way into understanding the processes.
 
Jeeves said:
That's a list, not understanding. You can learn a rule, but that rule can have so many applications as part of so many complex processes that knowing the rule will get you only a very little way into understanding the processes.
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No, once you *understand" a rule, you can most often figure out what mathematical law applies. The reason is that whatever the result, it will always have that mathematical function as a *common denominator*.

The Fibonacci sequence is used by many plants (as well as galactic spirals), not because they know maths, but it is a natural mathematically efficient way to grow and receive maximum energy from the sun. Sunflowers have sensors that directs the flower toward the revolving sun. Even leaves from just about every plant will turn to face the sun. What better configuration than a spiral which exposes all parts to the sun without moving? IMO, these are fundamentally simple natural mathematics.

Natural selection does the rest.

This is why I stand in awe of the unlimited variety of extant life, each with specific learned (or hardwired) skills to cope with their environment. Only the most efficient organisms survive to breed, each generation with just a little more "knowledge" (instinct) than the previous generation.
An octopus or cuttlefish may well be the most intelligent ocean dwellers. They have 9 brains, able to act seperately or in combination. Truly remarkable for an animal that started as a slug.

IMO, this acquisition of knowledge is via a neural mirror function
 
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Jeeves said:
That's a list, not understanding. You can learn a rule, but that rule can have so many applications as part of so many complex processes that knowing the rule will get you only a very little way into understanding the processes.
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True
 
Write4U said:
No, once you *understand" a rule, you can most often figure out what mathematical law applies.
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Sure. But does that tell you how it applies in every instance? And then, what does that tell you about adaptability? And then, where does it lead you in regard to intelligence?
 
Write4U said:
No, once you *understand" a rule, you can most often figure out what mathematical law applies. The reason is that whatever the result, it will always have that mathematical function as a *common denominator*.

The Fibonacci sequence is used by many plants, not because the know maths, but it is a natural mathematically efficient way to grow.
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For example ....?
 
river said:
Why ?
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To give you a different perspective on universal functions.

Mathematics, as complicated as they may seem, rests on just a small number of values, equations, and interactive abilities. A self organizing system generated by the constant mathematical behaviors and patterns of physical objects.
The maths are our symbolic translation of these natural values and the patterns they create.

btw, mathematical equations (anything with =) are different perspectives of a state or function, such as 2 + 2 = 2 x 2, an axiom that shows two different functions (addition and multiplication), yielding the same answer. IOW, two perspectives of arriving at the same truth. This perspective is formalized in the paradigm of "necessity and sufficiency" .

What is music? Music is the mathematical manipulation of audible sound waves, in accordance to the limitations of the instrument. Pythagoras.

It is to be expected that in nature many animals use a signature sound to alert a possible mate. Do birds *know* music? Yet we humans can listento to song birds for hours, some create truly compelling melodies.
 
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↑
Why ?
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To give you a different perspective on universal functions.

Mathematics, as complicated as they may seem, rests on just a small number of values, equations, and interactive abilities. A self organizing system generated by the constant mathematical behaviors and patterns of physical objects.
The maths are our symbolic translation of these natural values and the patterns they create.
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" Universal functions " define .
 
river said:
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" Universal functions " define .
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The regular patterns occurring throughout the universe, which are translatable into a symbolic language. Take the wave function as a clear example.

I go by the simple logic that observable natural phenomena ALL suggest a form of mathematically consistent relationships and are *mathematically allowed* to become manifest (to us).
Our task is to discover all these functions and arrive at an inescapable conclusion (whatever that may be).

My bet is a fairly simple mathematical equation in the realm of Probability.
 
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Write4U said:
The regular patterns occurring throughout the universe, which are translatable into a symbolic language. Take the wave function as a clear example.

I go by the simple logic that observable natural phenomena ALL suggest a form of mathematically consistent relationships and are *mathematically allowed* to become manifest (to us).
Our task is to discover all these functions and arrive at an inescapable conclusion (whatever that may be).

My bet is a fairly simple mathematical equation in the realm of Probability.
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We have as of yet , not explored the Universe , for our selves .

Further , We don't fully understand the light spectrum of the Sun .

Mathematics can't delve into this , conumdrum . Because it has no starting point .

This is part of my philosophy of mathematics that , the objects come first . Mathematics is secondary.
 
river said:
We have as of yet , explored the Universe , for our selves .

We don't fully understand the spectrum of the Sun .
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Apparently many insect do and use it to their adantage.
Mathematics can't delve into this , conumdrum .
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Yes, now that we are gaining knowledge on nano particles and can build atoms from scratch. our knowledge is expanding rapidly in this area.
This is part of my philosophy of mathematics that , the objects come first .
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Objects are mathematical constructs, from the very subtle to gross expression in our reality.

But, apart from Theoretical Sciences, Hard Sciences do indeed deal with the properties of matter.
 
Mathematics can't delve into this , conumdrum .
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Yes, now that we are gaining knowledge on nano particles and can build atoms from scratch. our knowledge is expanding rapidly in this area.
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You miss understand , the spectrum of the Sun , that we can not explain , is my point .
 
Mathematics is profound, universal, fun and beautiful. I get that.
What does it tell me about insect intelligence?
IOW - what's the relevance?
 
river said:
↑ How do you know ?
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It's been tested., Some animals can observe the world from an infrared perspective. Others by sonar, still others by the earth's magnetic fields, and sharks from electrical fields.. These surviving (extant) species have had the same or longer time to evolve than humans; why should they not have developed extraordinary abilities , beyond human perception, abilities which are beyond hominid capabilities. Its a matter of specialization to one's environment., whereas humans can specialize in a variety of survival skills, such as altering the environment, but have a low birthrate compared to the insect.
 
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