How to explain to someone universe has no prupose and there is no meaning of life?
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I understand what he is saying. I'm sure anyone who grasps the concept of a world without meaning will be filled with fear. However one cannot deny the soul, as Darwin does! It is worrying that anyone can just deny the soul, even if their ideas may be interesting. I have read a pseudo-theory that states the universe has always been here, and it's very hard to know that it hasn't! While this is a good thought, and there is surely much more work that can be built on this, to encourage this beleive would be to deny the soul and God.
Ok...
Yes,I need to seewhat are atheists' arguments about saying life has/hasn't purpose.I'm one of those strong atheists who say an know,since I and my best friend have experienced and proved to each other that there is no life after death,and life has no purpose at all.My friend was at what they call clinic death,and hasn't seen anything what others have-flying above their bodies,walking thru walls and etc...,he was at the same comatose as every and each of other people have been,just for the difference of others who who have survived clinical death,he didn't see anything.He told me that he only saw some electricity,and many of forgotten memories-but he never saw himself flying thru walls and being outside his body or anything like.He is any strong atheist(that's why I'm also asking if they had any of those experiences),others people that saw,or have doubts about does god exist or not-have seen those things I've mentioned.That is irrefutable proof that faith creates hallucinations,that create person or god you would like to see in your life.Only strong atheists don't see anything at all-beucase they are completely faithless.Also,I believed before strongly in ghosts,in about 2 months I saw 3 different ghosts,and than I tries to touch them,than they disappeared.Less I believed in ghosts' existence,they were less showing themselves.This truly means faith is the drug that poisons brain and evry other part of our body.That's my case,I really have to go now,see you tomorrow.
Yes,I need to seewhat are atheists' arguments about saying life has/hasn't purpose.I'm one of those strong atheists who say an know,since I and my best friend have experienced and proved to each other that there is no life after death,and life has no purpose at all.My friend was at what they call clinic death,and hasn't seen anything what others have-flying above their bodies,walking thru walls and etc...,he was at the same comatose as every and each of other people have been,just for the difference of others who who have survived clinical death,he didn't see anything.He told me that he only saw some electricity,and many of forgotten memories-but he never saw himself flying thru walls and being outside his body or anything like.He is any strong atheist(that's why I'm also asking if they had any of those experiences),others people that saw,or have doubts about does god exist or not-have seen those things I've mentioned.That is irrefutable proof that faith creates hallucinations,that create person or god you would like to see in your life.Only strong atheists don't see anything at all-beucase they are completely faithless.Also,I believed before strongly in ghosts,in about 2 months I saw 3 different ghosts,and than I tries to touch them,than they disappeared.Less I believed in ghosts' existence,they were less showing themselves.This truly means faith is the drug that poisons brain and evry other part of our body.That's my case,I really have to go now,see you tomorrow.
Mucker,
Or recognizes reality and takes steps to create personal meaning. But you demonstrate very well the evil of religions like Christianity who thrive and depend on the fear of their adherents.
One can very easily withhold belief for a fictional fantasy for which there is absolutely zero factual support, unless you know otherwise of course.
It is far more worrying that people choose to believe these fantasies rather than reality.
Pseudo-theory? What is that? But you are correct; there is nothing to indicate that the universe has not always existed.
You imply this is not a good thing, why?
Simply...
They see reality how they want to,not the reality that is real which sorrounds them-I was one of these people,so I have experienced "bended reality"-it's all about faith that makes hallucinations,it's "the power of suggestion" drug and all of the religions are drug-dillers.What all theists need is one good shock-therapy.Theists see the reality,but when they are said the believe more in God,Buddha,Allah and etc..,more they believe one they will see these mythic persons.But to achieve that you must believe for at least one decade.
They see reality how they want to,not the reality that is real which sorrounds them-I was one of these people,so I have experienced "bended reality"-it's all about faith that makes hallucinations,it's "the power of suggestion" drug and all of the religions are drug-dillers.What all theists need is one good shock-therapy.Theists see the reality,but when they are said the believe more in God,Buddha,Allah and etc..,more they believe one they will see these mythic persons.But to achieve that you must believe for at least one decade.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Start with the meaning of death!
I'm not sure I can answer your question but I can help you get off the wrong track.
Your friend was not dead. People who lie there with no pulse and no breathing, but then their heart and lungs start working again-- those people are not dead!
The definition of "death" is the cessation of life. Not the temporary illusion of the cessation of life, but the absolute cessation of life, no fooling. There are thousands of cases of people who appear to be dead and then get up and walk away. There's no paradox, the fact is simply that they were not dead.
This is nothing more than an admittedly rather extreme yet not at all uncommon case of incorrect diagnosis. Just like a doctor who says you have the flu and it turns out to be just food poisoning is wrong. A doctor who says you are dead and it turns out that your heart just stopped beating for a few minutes is also wrong.
What is going on in your brain at that time is not a so-called "near death experience." Your brain is alive! It's woefully low on oxygen so a lot of wacky things are going on in it. Just like when it's got too much alcohol or THC or any number of chemical imbalances. Chemical imbalances make the brain act crazy and make you feel like you're having experiences that aren't really happening.
When this is caused by drugs, they call them "hallucinations." When it's caused by lack of oxygen, they call them "near death experiences." Well, they're wrong, just as wrong as the doctors who said you were dead. They're just hallucinations.
A good scientific definition of death is the irreversible cessation of brain activity. This can only happen after so many synapses have degraded that even if they got your blood pumping oxygen into your brain again, there's no "you" left in there. All your thoughts and memories vanished when the synaptic structure fell apart. Then you are dead. This takes about five minutes, so to be on the safe side we can say that if your brain has been deprived of oxygen for ten minutes, all the synapses have failed and you're gone. (As in the case of that poor dead lady in Florida that the other Stupid Bush intervened to make a Perpetual Vegetable. Her brain was deprived of oxygen for ten full minutes. She is dead!) It doesn't matter that they can keep your heart and lungs and other organs working for fifty more years by hooking them up to machines. Your body may be alive the same way a philodendron is alive, but you are dead.
And the same is true in reverse. Your heart and lungs may not be working for a few minutes, but if your synapses are still intact, you're still alive, no matter what is or is not going on in your mind.
Don't confuse a doctor's mistake with a preview of the afterlife.
I'm in your camp when it comes to belief in the supernatural. But it's not fair to tell religionists that they're wrong just because somebody's brain was a little short on oxygen and the particular hallucination they had did not feature God and the angels.
No more than it would be fair to say that if somebody's hallucination did feature that scenario, it proves that religion is true.
These "near death experiences" are red herrings that distract both religionists and atheists from even coming close to having a realistic dialog. It's time to recognize them for what they are: just one more type of doctor error.
I'm not sure I can answer your question but I can help you get off the wrong track.
Your friend was not dead. People who lie there with no pulse and no breathing, but then their heart and lungs start working again-- those people are not dead!
The definition of "death" is the cessation of life. Not the temporary illusion of the cessation of life, but the absolute cessation of life, no fooling. There are thousands of cases of people who appear to be dead and then get up and walk away. There's no paradox, the fact is simply that they were not dead.
This is nothing more than an admittedly rather extreme yet not at all uncommon case of incorrect diagnosis. Just like a doctor who says you have the flu and it turns out to be just food poisoning is wrong. A doctor who says you are dead and it turns out that your heart just stopped beating for a few minutes is also wrong.
What is going on in your brain at that time is not a so-called "near death experience." Your brain is alive! It's woefully low on oxygen so a lot of wacky things are going on in it. Just like when it's got too much alcohol or THC or any number of chemical imbalances. Chemical imbalances make the brain act crazy and make you feel like you're having experiences that aren't really happening.
When this is caused by drugs, they call them "hallucinations." When it's caused by lack of oxygen, they call them "near death experiences." Well, they're wrong, just as wrong as the doctors who said you were dead. They're just hallucinations.
A good scientific definition of death is the irreversible cessation of brain activity. This can only happen after so many synapses have degraded that even if they got your blood pumping oxygen into your brain again, there's no "you" left in there. All your thoughts and memories vanished when the synaptic structure fell apart. Then you are dead. This takes about five minutes, so to be on the safe side we can say that if your brain has been deprived of oxygen for ten minutes, all the synapses have failed and you're gone. (As in the case of that poor dead lady in Florida that the other Stupid Bush intervened to make a Perpetual Vegetable. Her brain was deprived of oxygen for ten full minutes. She is dead!) It doesn't matter that they can keep your heart and lungs and other organs working for fifty more years by hooking them up to machines. Your body may be alive the same way a philodendron is alive, but you are dead.
And the same is true in reverse. Your heart and lungs may not be working for a few minutes, but if your synapses are still intact, you're still alive, no matter what is or is not going on in your mind.
Don't confuse a doctor's mistake with a preview of the afterlife.
I'm in your camp when it comes to belief in the supernatural. But it's not fair to tell religionists that they're wrong just because somebody's brain was a little short on oxygen and the particular hallucination they had did not feature God and the angels.
No more than it would be fair to say that if somebody's hallucination did feature that scenario, it proves that religion is true.
These "near death experiences" are red herrings that distract both religionists and atheists from even coming close to having a realistic dialog. It's time to recognize them for what they are: just one more type of doctor error.
What then is the purpose of this thread? What is the purpose of sharing or even forcing your belief unto others?
Well...if you use logic you can see that everything non-living, and living has a clear goal...atoms strive to stay noble or be noble, bacteria/cells/animals/plants want to keep themselves alive in some form...so if the universe has no purpose...why does everything have a clear goal? why does everything just happen to want to be in a certain state? Why does being in that certain state make the animal/person happy? Please don't give me answers like "it just does". That's like a theists saying god "just does" exist.
Staying alive or taking on a certain constellation like an atom, is a different kind of purpose than strife for universal love or something like that.
But you have a good point. In relatively small configurations of reality, the rules of the game can be knwown, and you can call these rules purpose.
A 'higher purpose"... that's another ball game. It is the source of eternal unhappiness for man.
If happiness was to be found somewhere or in something, somebody would have already put it into small bottles to sell it.
So a working definition is: no known purpose, but the power to create purpose, maybe that being the purpose.
But you have a good point. In relatively small configurations of reality, the rules of the game can be knwown, and you can call these rules purpose.
A 'higher purpose"... that's another ball game. It is the source of eternal unhappiness for man.
If happiness was to be found somewhere or in something, somebody would have already put it into small bottles to sell it.
So a working definition is: no known purpose, but the power to create purpose, maybe that being the purpose.
Re: Start with the meaning of death!
Yes,but if those 8 million people could see what they could and have that near-death experience(and my friend was one of them) and had clinical death,than their brain is activa,,than why brain doesn't have any of electrical impulses,even the weakest ones?Someone explained that brain is like plain's blackbox,which I agree with.But,I have to agree with when you said ifthey felt like they were flying thru medical rooms,than they weren't dead,they were very close to death(clinical death),but still brain SHOULD have some functions.To really prove if they were outside their body just when the doctor has visited them at the same time,than we could say there is something ther,but if they were only dreaming this,thinking they are outside of their bodies is really stupid idea.
Yes,but if those 8 million people could see what they could and have that near-death experience(and my friend was one of them) and had clinical death,than their brain is activa,,than why brain doesn't have any of electrical impulses,even the weakest ones?Someone explained that brain is like plain's blackbox,which I agree with.But,I have to agree with when you said ifthey felt like they were flying thru medical rooms,than they weren't dead,they were very close to death(clinical death),but still brain SHOULD have some functions.To really prove if they were outside their body just when the doctor has visited them at the same time,than we could say there is something ther,but if they were only dreaming this,thinking they are outside of their bodies is really stupid idea.
Re: Re: How to explain to someone universe has no prupose and there is no meaning of life?
Wrong,ask Hawking and and the law of Wave function of the universe,which has observational proof that the universe is uncaused.It was very lucky that our solar system has apeared with life at all.
Originally posted by Q25
if universe had no purpose it wouldnt exist,
Wrong,ask Hawking and and the law of Wave function of the universe,which has observational proof that the universe is uncaused.It was very lucky that our solar system has apeared with life at all.
Q25,
Your conclusion does not follow from the premise. Purpose is defined as something intended. As yet we have nothing to indicate that anything that exists was the result of an intention. What we do observe are unintentional evolutionary processes.
just because....
How to explain to someone universe has no prupose and there is no meaning of life?
First of all that is not my view, "that the universe has no purpose", this is still to be determined, whether a god exists or not, wouldn't answer such a question, because what would be the purpose of god?. Certainly god wouldn't give purpose to the universe, while there are black holes, planetary collisions with astroid, etc.. destruction and a violent place...what kind of god is that, not benevolent.
As to the meaning of life, well that is a more personel answer. Even though I'm an atheist I don't consider that my life has no meaning, it has meaning to me. Why the hell do people think that if one is an atheist, does not accept the god concept, one's life has no meaning?. That is insulting.
What meaning does a theists life has? other than the illusion that after he dies, he will be in some form of bliss for beign a moron bible zealot?. And the illusion that all those he does not approve of will end up in hell. PLEASEEEEE!!!
That is not meaning to life, that is an illusion that he will receive a reward after he is death!.
Godless.
How to explain to someone universe has no prupose and there is no meaning of life?
First of all that is not my view, "that the universe has no purpose", this is still to be determined, whether a god exists or not, wouldn't answer such a question, because what would be the purpose of god?. Certainly god wouldn't give purpose to the universe, while there are black holes, planetary collisions with astroid, etc.. destruction and a violent place...what kind of god is that, not benevolent.
As to the meaning of life, well that is a more personel answer. Even though I'm an atheist I don't consider that my life has no meaning, it has meaning to me. Why the hell do people think that if one is an atheist, does not accept the god concept, one's life has no meaning?. That is insulting.
What meaning does a theists life has? other than the illusion that after he dies, he will be in some form of bliss for beign a moron bible zealot?. And the illusion that all those he does not approve of will end up in hell. PLEASEEEEE!!!
That is not meaning to life, that is an illusion that he will receive a reward after he is death!.
Godless.
Ok. I'm a strong atheist. Reasons? Because I think God is an anthropomorphic creation based on an incorrect understanding of reality, and because the idea of a creator God is metaphysically illogical. Mind you, if you define God as Spinoza did then one gets into grey areas. That's the trouble with God, everyone's got their own.