How do you answer the self-organization of recurring patterns without a mathematixcal function? I beg to differ with your conclusion. The fact that humans are able to measure, quantify, codify, and symbolize natural processes is proof of an underlying mathematical ordering function to begin with. This may seem unrelated to the discussion, but this comedian makes an astute observation that is undeniably true. Take a few minutes and be entertained as well as informed.....Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Go to; 3:40 on the video. Maths remain the same over time.