Did you miss this bit?
qq said:
Is law of attraction an absolute hoax?
- Thread starter entelecheia
- Start date
kx000
Valued Senior Member
Deceiver?
Islamsmylife
Registered Senior Member
The reason I don't buy this philosophy is because many people from 3rd World countries who visualize, obsess, contemplate and focus on success but still it never comes there way. Why? Because their thoughts cannot change their reality. Fact: they were born in impoverished, sometime war-torn countries were there are not many opportunities for ALL people within that society unless of course you was born rich. Fact 2: Many other 1st world countries will not accept them in so they do not have opportunities to pursue success. Fact 3: They are in lose-lose situations. Conclusion: the law of attraction is not real.
@ Islamsmylife,
I would think people would need to know about religions/law of attraction in order to call upon them for help. I do not advocate believing or not believing. I always advocate trying and seeing the results yourself. Since being grateful for things and holding that attitude is a strong Islam principle (among most religions) then it would be easy for you to practice.
With a name like "Islamismylife" then you must already accept religion. How is praying any different than asking the Universe?
If you have not read this thread then maybe it will cover this subject better
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...bsolute-hoax&p=2984105&viewfull=1#post2984105
I suggest people try it before they knock it. There is a story of a man in a POW camp (worse than refugee) who visualized himself walking around LA. It came to pass. Maybe this should be taught before writing.
I would think people would need to know about religions/law of attraction in order to call upon them for help. I do not advocate believing or not believing. I always advocate trying and seeing the results yourself. Since being grateful for things and holding that attitude is a strong Islam principle (among most religions) then it would be easy for you to practice.
With a name like "Islamismylife" then you must already accept religion. How is praying any different than asking the Universe?
If you have not read this thread then maybe it will cover this subject better
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...bsolute-hoax&p=2984105&viewfull=1#post2984105
I suggest people try it before they knock it. There is a story of a man in a POW camp (worse than refugee) who visualized himself walking around LA. It came to pass. Maybe this should be taught before writing.
Islamsmylife
Registered Senior Member
1. I have tried it. It does seem to work to some extent. For someone who was the power to actualy obtain what they are envisioning. For example I can't envision myself growing wings and then flying away, it will never happen.
2. I do accept religion. Praying to the one who created you is completly different than asking something in creation to bring you some type of fortune.
3. The reason I cannot accept this belief is because it negates my firm belief that there is a creator of all things.
4. Your POW example does not compare to my example. He comes from a country which more than likely saved him. Whereas a poor person from a third world country that does not have a country to save him can envision walking on the streets of LA all day and more than likely they will die still having that vision unfulfilled.
@ Islamismylife,
Imagine you were raised on an island that had no religious teachings. Would there be a difference between prayer and "Asking the universe" for things? As I explained in my first post all religions have the same precepts. All religions require prayer, all religions have miracles, all religions stress belief and thankfulness.
Law of Attraction is religion stripped of all the rudimentary crutches. It is Christianity without Christ. It is Buddhism without Buddha. Voodoo, witchcraft... Hindu, Islam...
Since you are religious then I will give another comparison involving your Refugee camp idea. What would happen to people in a refugee camp if they prayed to god? I am not saying every prayer gets answered, but if people have the belief it is more likely to happen. I am sure there are millions of prayers that get answered in refugee camps. Perhaps the refugee camp itself is an answer to a prayer.
I cannot continue to argue this point.
You either accept "Law of Attraction" as religion or you do not. I realize that all religions feel they are correct and I feel that ALL religions have merit as opposed to there being incorrect versions.
Visualizing you can fly is flawed as in "Law of Attraction" you are taught to put belief, expectation, gratefulness into these, however I believe if you affirmed often enough that you can fly then somehow you would be forced to land a plane during an emergency or some such thing.
I fail to see how anyone religious could not see the comparisons.
I will say again. I have used daily affirmations and visualizations in my daily life, and it works in surprising ways. When these "opportunities" come they come in ways that are not normal and scream magick. Yes it all boils down to magick.... Magick is real.
Imagine you were raised on an island that had no religious teachings. Would there be a difference between prayer and "Asking the universe" for things? As I explained in my first post all religions have the same precepts. All religions require prayer, all religions have miracles, all religions stress belief and thankfulness.
Law of Attraction is religion stripped of all the rudimentary crutches. It is Christianity without Christ. It is Buddhism without Buddha. Voodoo, witchcraft... Hindu, Islam...
Since you are religious then I will give another comparison involving your Refugee camp idea. What would happen to people in a refugee camp if they prayed to god? I am not saying every prayer gets answered, but if people have the belief it is more likely to happen. I am sure there are millions of prayers that get answered in refugee camps. Perhaps the refugee camp itself is an answer to a prayer.
I cannot continue to argue this point.
You either accept "Law of Attraction" as religion or you do not. I realize that all religions feel they are correct and I feel that ALL religions have merit as opposed to there being incorrect versions.
Visualizing you can fly is flawed as in "Law of Attraction" you are taught to put belief, expectation, gratefulness into these, however I believe if you affirmed often enough that you can fly then somehow you would be forced to land a plane during an emergency or some such thing.
I fail to see how anyone religious could not see the comparisons.
I will say again. I have used daily affirmations and visualizations in my daily life, and it works in surprising ways. When these "opportunities" come they come in ways that are not normal and scream magick. Yes it all boils down to magick.... Magick is real.
sorry neverfly,
Those questions were for Islamismylife who is undoubtedly religious.
Once again. I have given examples of how the "law of attraction" has entered my life in very strange ways on topics of sex and money. I am sure science will one day be able to fathom the reasoning's behind LOA,Magick,witchcraft,prayers,etc, but for now I am saying spend 15 minutes focused on a desired result. Make it something so weird you will believe it if it comes. Start small. dont go for something too unbelievable. Maybe a Dr. Pepper (but don't buy one yourself), let one come to you..
I swear I am 100% convinced this works amazingly. I am not expecting most to believe, but I think anyone would be very, very, very, very, foolish not to give it a chance on the minute chance it does work. If you want a job visualize yourself working there.. Do it even if it seems hokey to you.. it works..
I am not selling anything here. I am saying I have used it, and use it everyday.
Those questions were for Islamismylife who is undoubtedly religious.
Once again. I have given examples of how the "law of attraction" has entered my life in very strange ways on topics of sex and money. I am sure science will one day be able to fathom the reasoning's behind LOA,Magick,witchcraft,prayers,etc, but for now I am saying spend 15 minutes focused on a desired result. Make it something so weird you will believe it if it comes. Start small. dont go for something too unbelievable. Maybe a Dr. Pepper (but don't buy one yourself), let one come to you..
I swear I am 100% convinced this works amazingly. I am not expecting most to believe, but I think anyone would be very, very, very, very, foolish not to give it a chance on the minute chance it does work. If you want a job visualize yourself working there.. Do it even if it seems hokey to you.. it works..
I am not selling anything here. I am saying I have used it, and use it everyday.
Oh I've given it it's fair chance. Suffice to say that I also did the opposite frequently. Using Dr. Pepper as an example (Good one, by the way) :
Let's say I wish for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Hard. And then a neighbor swings by and offers me one. Whatever cause you like. Ok, so we've somewhat confirmed your idea, right?
Not really.
Let's say I don't wish for one. What if my neighbor swings by and offers one? I say, "Oh no thanks." Or maybe "Oh... thanks!" but since I didn't wish for it, I don't think much of it. That's Confirmation bias at work. Maybe it's because I was standing there all hot and sweaty doing yard work.
The thing is, living is a constant game of back and forth with the concept of ownership and trade. Statistically, the odds are that I'll get simple things I want frequently without asking or wishing, simply by the odds of trade.
For religious folks, they claim that God did it when they get what they want and they tend to not think much on all the offers that pass by they didn't want. I don't know many people that pray for a Kirby Salesman to knock on their door. "Lord, I've been good and righteous muh whole life... and if'n, aside from Heaven, you could please reward me with one o' them newfangled Kirby machines, I'd praise you high!"
Who prays or wishes that Jehovah Witnesses would PLEASE come to their door and save their damned souls?
We ignore what we don't want and take it as divine intervention when we ask for something and low and behold- actually get it.
For Taoists, they accept it as a granted, as you seem to. So on and so on as whatever belief they hold is used to justify receiving while ignoring all the things they could have received had they just wanted it or all the things that they didn't get. So if I want a Dr. Pepper, the odds are good that one will be offered to me at some point in the near future. But when it happens, I might just chalk it up as confirmation of a belief.
If you want a scientific explanation, try statistics and social interactions.
I wish I had a 24 karat gold Ferrari.
Patiently waiting on the odds... Eventually... one WILL be offered. If I wait long enough.
Let's say I wish for an ice cold Dr. Pepper. Hard. And then a neighbor swings by and offers me one. Whatever cause you like. Ok, so we've somewhat confirmed your idea, right?
Not really.
Let's say I don't wish for one. What if my neighbor swings by and offers one? I say, "Oh no thanks." Or maybe "Oh... thanks!" but since I didn't wish for it, I don't think much of it. That's Confirmation bias at work. Maybe it's because I was standing there all hot and sweaty doing yard work.
The thing is, living is a constant game of back and forth with the concept of ownership and trade. Statistically, the odds are that I'll get simple things I want frequently without asking or wishing, simply by the odds of trade.
For religious folks, they claim that God did it when they get what they want and they tend to not think much on all the offers that pass by they didn't want. I don't know many people that pray for a Kirby Salesman to knock on their door. "Lord, I've been good and righteous muh whole life... and if'n, aside from Heaven, you could please reward me with one o' them newfangled Kirby machines, I'd praise you high!"
Who prays or wishes that Jehovah Witnesses would PLEASE come to their door and save their damned souls?
We ignore what we don't want and take it as divine intervention when we ask for something and low and behold- actually get it.
For Taoists, they accept it as a granted, as you seem to. So on and so on as whatever belief they hold is used to justify receiving while ignoring all the things they could have received had they just wanted it or all the things that they didn't get. So if I want a Dr. Pepper, the odds are good that one will be offered to me at some point in the near future. But when it happens, I might just chalk it up as confirmation of a belief.
If you want a scientific explanation, try statistics and social interactions.
I wish I had a 24 karat gold Ferrari.
Patiently waiting on the odds... Eventually... one WILL be offered. If I wait long enough.
Hi NeverFly. Yeah, I remember this study. It's very appropriate - in several ways - that you bring it up here. There's a huge difference between simply thinking positive and having a good attitude than reshaping physical reality by magical mental powers aided by a cosmic overlord.
The interest folks have in POA is very much a parallel to religion, and thus modern people - even those with enough sense to know better - are praying for something they want even at this moment.
It hearkens back to primitive superstition and the irrational idea that an unknown power or automaton is controlling the universe, but which is accessible to us if we apply some regimen (or ritual) to hit the "start" button.
All of this stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that ideas are merely ideas. They have no physical correspondence. This is essentially the same ideology that leads people to believe in magic, spoon-bending and levitation. Holy rollers jumping up and down shouting "Praise Jesus!" just because some actor gets up out of a wheelchair is one of the classic examples. The profound alteration of their rational sense of reality can be seen by the tears in their eyes, the jumping and screaming, or worse, the ones who practically induce seizures in themselves with their extravagant fits.
I don't think any of this existed prior to the American fundamentalist movement. Before then religious people went by a reverential protocol that included silent prayer and silence in church, except for answering prayers or chants, or choral music, which was straight-laced and nothing likely to induce fits.
Maybe in modern times more nuts are simply out of the closet and they've simply sought refuge in religion because it's so nutty too and protective (as it is protected) and malleable.
Thanks for the links. It's funny how people hear facts like this and still dismiss them. POA could probably better be called POD - power of denial.
@ Neverfly,
I understand what you are saying. Your take on it is that even had you not consciously attracted a Dr.Pepper a neighbor would still give you one, but it would not be a notable event.
I will say that these things often manifest in unique ways that scream odd. Perhaps a Dr Pepper promotion will be set up directly in from of your grocery store entrance or something strange. Even talking about it lightly will probably draw it or commercials or movie references into your life.
I original approached the law of attraction with skepticism. I found the most effective methods was to repeat what you wanted as if it had occurred in a short affirmation that I would repeat for 1 hour daily (not all at once).
"I have a 24 karat gold Ferrari" is in present tense, and your "I wish I had a 24 karat gold Ferrari" is always in future tense. If you say you wish or want then you are doing it incorrectly. If you wish to quit smoking then that will always be at some future time. " I am a non smoker" would be much better.
It also helps if your goal is believable or doesnt trigger too much negative confrontation. If you say "I make a million dollars a year" your mind might be saying "Like hell i make a million dollars a year" counteracting the thought projection. In this case repeating a word like wealth or being thankful for all you have might be just as effective.
Anyways. Skeptics are welcome to read, but i am not going to waste too much time attempting to convince them.. good luck either way.
I understand what you are saying. Your take on it is that even had you not consciously attracted a Dr.Pepper a neighbor would still give you one, but it would not be a notable event.
I will say that these things often manifest in unique ways that scream odd. Perhaps a Dr Pepper promotion will be set up directly in from of your grocery store entrance or something strange. Even talking about it lightly will probably draw it or commercials or movie references into your life.
I original approached the law of attraction with skepticism. I found the most effective methods was to repeat what you wanted as if it had occurred in a short affirmation that I would repeat for 1 hour daily (not all at once).
"I have a 24 karat gold Ferrari" is in present tense, and your "I wish I had a 24 karat gold Ferrari" is always in future tense. If you say you wish or want then you are doing it incorrectly. If you wish to quit smoking then that will always be at some future time. " I am a non smoker" would be much better.
It also helps if your goal is believable or doesnt trigger too much negative confrontation. If you say "I make a million dollars a year" your mind might be saying "Like hell i make a million dollars a year" counteracting the thought projection. In this case repeating a word like wealth or being thankful for all you have might be just as effective.
Anyways. Skeptics are welcome to read, but i am not going to waste too much time attempting to convince them.. good luck either way.
I love Dr. Pepper and there have been some very hot summer days I wanted one badly when I didn't have cash or easy access to go get one (Stuck at work). Never had a promotion for it set up. In fact, many of those times, I didn't get a Dr. Pepper at all.
Yes, because talking about it makes you more aware of what's already going on around you.
Funny that...
A wise move.
It's not skepticism, it's critical thinking. Being more aware of what is going on instead of inventing fairy tales to explain the mundane.
@ neverfly,
Wanting is not even remotely the same and is actually opposite of the concept of conscious creation. By wanting you are sending a feeling of lack into the universe. The correct approach would be...
a) ask the universe/god for a dr pepper.
b) visualize yourself drinking a dr pepper. imagine the unique taste in your mouth.
Just saying.
I often say it is no skin off my nose if skeptics care to overlook what I feel is undiscovered science. I have given examples of how this has affected me in ways that you would be hard pressed to explain rationally. The city hall one, etc. Anyways.. Once skeptics get into these threads conversation goes out the window. This is likely my last comment for a while here, however I wanted to make the above point.
Wanting is not even remotely the same and is actually opposite of the concept of conscious creation. By wanting you are sending a feeling of lack into the universe. The correct approach would be...
a) ask the universe/god for a dr pepper.
b) visualize yourself drinking a dr pepper. imagine the unique taste in your mouth.
Just saying.
I often say it is no skin off my nose if skeptics care to overlook what I feel is undiscovered science. I have given examples of how this has affected me in ways that you would be hard pressed to explain rationally. The city hall one, etc. Anyways.. Once skeptics get into these threads conversation goes out the window. This is likely my last comment for a while here, however I wanted to make the above point.
Yeah, those pesky skeptics writing off 'things science can't explain,' such as psychics and spoon benders and ghosts and Sylvia Browne. We're bastards.
Yeah we refute it right off and then... well the conversation just can't progress. Again- funny that...
WAIT!
You're right! It turns out what you're saying is true-- I was just asking God/Universe for you to stop talking about it.
I was imagining the unique taste of your silence in my mouf.
@ Neverfly,
Do you really need to become an ass? From my point of view (the correct one, and majority view) it is you who is being the idiot here. The law of attraction is endorsed and taught in every religion with more than six billion on my side. I feel the skeptics are a SMALL GROUP of two dimensional thinkers, uncapable of grasping higher concepts. It is proven that the more education someone has the more LIKELY they are to endorse paranormal beliefs. I feel sorry for people like you, honestly.
Do you really need to become an ass? From my point of view (the correct one, and majority view) it is you who is being the idiot here. The law of attraction is endorsed and taught in every religion with more than six billion on my side. I feel the skeptics are a SMALL GROUP of two dimensional thinkers, uncapable of grasping higher concepts. It is proven that the more education someone has the more LIKELY they are to endorse paranormal beliefs. I feel sorry for people like you, honestly.
No. But I will admit that sometimes I enjoy it. It's not 'right' but it can be fun.
Bold Mine:
Do you really need to become an ass?
How do you support the claim that your view is the "correct" one and how does the fallacy of argumentum ad numerum help you here?
That's not a plus! Contradictory ideas and uneducated beliefs somehow support your claim?
Argumentum ad numerum. And I question the figures. Just 'cuz.
Show this "proof."
It bears repeating:
@ neverfly,
This is not the first study, but the more education you have the more open minded you become. Stay in School!
http://rense.com/general70/smart.htm
This study was 2006, but I have seen others before then.
I genuinely feel sorry for these skeptics and don't blame you for your narrow views. I doubt anyone not looking for paranormal evidence will ever witness or recognize any. It must be difficult to hold that shallow perspective, and feel bad that you cannot enjoy the real view.
I have argued in other threads; that until the mechanisms behind telepathy are discovered the best methods for individual proof is self experimentation with telepathy. Wait until someone distant is asleep and spend an hour issuing a command to them as if you were there. 1 hour and you are on the road to accepting reality as it is.
Good luck. Stay in School and don't settle with a weak mind.
This is not the first study, but the more education you have the more open minded you become. Stay in School!
http://rense.com/general70/smart.htm
This study was 2006, but I have seen others before then.
I genuinely feel sorry for these skeptics and don't blame you for your narrow views. I doubt anyone not looking for paranormal evidence will ever witness or recognize any. It must be difficult to hold that shallow perspective, and feel bad that you cannot enjoy the real view.
I have argued in other threads; that until the mechanisms behind telepathy are discovered the best methods for individual proof is self experimentation with telepathy. Wait until someone distant is asleep and spend an hour issuing a command to them as if you were there. 1 hour and you are on the road to accepting reality as it is.
Good luck. Stay in School and don't settle with a weak mind.
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Wow, really?
Seriously?! Those studied were College Seniors over college freshman? That was the study group?
We're supposed to take that seriously? I notice that this paper is linked all over (When I googled it) to ufo sites and ghost sites as some kind of proof.
They polled 439 college students out of over 20+ million college students worldwide. Basically, you just posted a farce.
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1982-09873-001
http://www.siths.org/ourpages/auto/2010/10/3/54135565/4 Education Science and Paranormal.pdf
Seriously?! Those studied were College Seniors over college freshman? That was the study group?
We're supposed to take that seriously? I notice that this paper is linked all over (When I googled it) to ufo sites and ghost sites as some kind of proof.
They polled 439 college students out of over 20+ million college students worldwide. Basically, you just posted a farce.
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1982-09873-001
http://www.siths.org/ourpages/auto/2010/10/3/54135565/4 Education Science and Paranormal.pdf
Stay in the woods, stay green- Stay Safe. Goodnight.
Why not prove POA? Visualize the desire for skeptics to stay out of your thread. Send out the feeling of lacking to the universe. Lacking of opportunity to promote your idea without skeptical resistance.
If it doesn't work, then likely it is just that you don't really know what you want most. Kinda like Jack Sparrow's compass, POA knows what you really want. And what you really want is for us skeptics to lead you back onto the right path. But you are not consciously aware of that desire, the desire you are really sending out to the universe.
@ Seagypsy,
What is POA? If you even read this thread you would call the Law of Attraction .. LOA.
In my very last post I said,
I do feel bad for skeptics as I feel they have been deprived of Empirical Evidence that might have swayed them.
a few hundred years ago there were skeptics who would argue or even kill you if you suggested radio waves existed that could carry words and images. Those skeptics missed out on what is in fact a reality today. I have seen much evidence of telepathic events occurring and despite the expected amount of cynicism I do make efforts to open some otherwise closed minds.
Having skeptics leave this forum would be nice sometimes; as conversations about some topics could actually develop without needing to skip 7 posts between every intelligent comment.
However the skeptics are also the audience we aim to convert. I'd like to think a few people have tried experiments suggested in this and other threads to see if they can make these things work.
Because...
I've worked as an Engineer and understand the science end of things, but I also have been involved with the Paranormal for many years and have seen a lot that could not be explained easily here.
It would help if the skeptics were literate and actually read the posts before commenting, but I do maintain hope that skeptics will at least do a double take next time a "coincidence" passes by.
What is POA? If you even read this thread you would call the Law of Attraction .. LOA.
In my very last post I said,
.
I do feel bad for skeptics as I feel they have been deprived of Empirical Evidence that might have swayed them.
a few hundred years ago there were skeptics who would argue or even kill you if you suggested radio waves existed that could carry words and images. Those skeptics missed out on what is in fact a reality today. I have seen much evidence of telepathic events occurring and despite the expected amount of cynicism I do make efforts to open some otherwise closed minds.
Having skeptics leave this forum would be nice sometimes; as conversations about some topics could actually develop without needing to skip 7 posts between every intelligent comment.
However the skeptics are also the audience we aim to convert. I'd like to think a few people have tried experiments suggested in this and other threads to see if they can make these things work.
Because...
.
I've worked as an Engineer and understand the science end of things, but I also have been involved with the Paranormal for many years and have seen a lot that could not be explained easily here.
It would help if the skeptics were literate and actually read the posts before commenting, but I do maintain hope that skeptics will at least do a double take next time a "coincidence" passes by.