Jesus as a deity

L

Ladybug

Registered Member
I don't know how many of you have heard this one, but it is quite true that until May 20th of 325 (almost 300 years after Christ died), Jesus was not considered a deity.

The Roman emporer Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea that day to debate whether or not Jesus was a God. After a long debate on the subject, the council voted to call him a deity. The Roman Catholic church has since spent much time, effort, and (I'm sure) money, trying to keep the Bible from having conflicting stories. They have the conflicting stories hidden away under the Vatican. Wouldn't you LOVE to get into the vaults under the Vatican? Can you imagine all of the information down there? All of the things that the Pope doesn't want you to know.

My point, I guess, is that just because you read it in a book, yes even the Bible, does not make it the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If you look, you will discover that there are lots and lots of "truths" out there. You just need to open up your eyes, not to mention your mind a little.

And for those of you who will come back with, "But the Bible is a HOLY book," just remember: it was written and edited by men, some of whom had political or other agendas. Men are not Gods, they are humans first and foremost.
 
Interesting information. I have always questioned the fact that the Romans who were the number one enemies of Jesus Christ couldn't just grasp Jesus message as intended. They will definetly try to fit Jesus within their own known myth like a diety to understand him.
 
The Roman emporer Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea that day to debate whether or not Jesus was a God. After a long debate on the subject, the council voted to call him a deity. The Roman Catholic church has since spent much time, effort, and (I'm sure) money, trying to keep the Bible from having conflicting stories. They have the conflicting stories hidden away under the Vatican. Wouldn't you LOVE to get into the vaults under the Vatican? Can you imagine all of the information down there? All of the things that the Pope doesn't want you to know.
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This is untrue. We have copies of manuscripts which predate Nicaea. No, the coucil was discusing the doctrin of the Trinity. Christians knew that Jesus was God. Even Arians still described Jesus as a god. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm
 
Too bad Jesus never saw himself as a god....but I guess the Aryan opinion and the Romans is the most important account here.:confused:

John.8
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:


[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


It's a hopeless case with you christians.
 
I can give links to web pages, too. Try this one:
http://thegreatestpuzzle.com/325j1.htm
or maybe this one: http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/ARCHIVEF/05/daily-05-20-2001.shtml
Of course Christian and Catholic web pages are going to give you the information that the Christian/Catholic leaders want you to hear. That still does not make it accurate.
There may be texts that predate the council, but are they correctly translated? Have you personally sat down and read the old text and translated it to English? If not, you have nothing except the religious leaders' promises that this is what the text says.
Did you know that the date for Easter is based on a PAGAN holiday? Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first full moon following the spring equinox. Try it, it works every time. VERY pagan!!
 
There may be texts that predate the council, but are they correctly translated? Have you personally sat down and read the old text and translated it to English? If not, you have nothing except the religious leaders' promises that this is what the text says.
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Have you? Then you have nothing except some webmaster says? Unfortunantly the only primary sources about Nicaea come from the Catholic church and there are many protestant "sources" that lie. You have just gave me a source which has no citations.

Why don't you read about <a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/const1-easter.html">easter</a> or <a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook2.html"> Nicaea</a>?
 
Jesus was no diety

Originally posted by Flores Too bad Jesus never saw himself as a god....but I guess the Aryan opinion and the Romans is the most important account here.:confused:

John.8
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

It's a hopeless case with you christians.
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You are right, Soul Sister, but remember that it is the Xians who will be hopeless when their religion turns to dust.
 
Try not believing everything you read, Atheist. I'll wager I have read more on the subject than you have, and better sources, too. Any church is not a credible source, either.

This is what I am trying to say to you people: The church is going to tell you exactly what the church needs you to believe. They have their own reasons for needing you to believe this, and a primary one is MONEY!!

As far as sources go, the first link has sources listed. Try reading them. I have.

If everything was just as the church says, then why aren't all of the books of the Bible found in the Bible?
 
LadyBug you don't understand what were saying. The only information about Nicaea comes from the Catholic Church and a few referances from catholic authors. The article that you cited does not have any citations and is not based on any history. It is speculation about what occurred. In any case, the council of Nicaea was based upon tradition. The catholic bishops had the faith handed down by the apostles.

If everything was just as the church says, then why aren't all of the books of the Bible found in the Bible?tatic tradition.
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Martin Luther threw out a few books in the 1600s or so. Nevertheless, when I say bible I mean all of the books in the bible. I'm not sure what you mean.
 
There are two links in my post. Granted, the second has no citations, but the first has references at the bottom.

As to the books of the Bible, there are many that have been thrown out over the years. The Bible is a book that has been carefully edited to say what the religious leaders want it to say.

All I am saying is that we are seeing the end result of centuries worth of alterations that were created for various purposes. Popes and other leaders have a lot of power. Power corrupts (and no, not all religious leaders are corrupt, but I think that there is some evidence that some of them were).

I guess what I am really getting at is that one has to think critically about all aspects of life, and religion should not be an exception.
 
By the way, where are the references on the web pages you both (Okinrus and Atheist) have linked to? From what I see, there are none.

If you search the web for the First Council of Nicea, you will come up with many web pages, some of which agree with you, some of which agree with me. Some of the ones that agree with me are written by religious leaders. Whose are yours written by?

Atheist, I have spent many years studying the subject of Christianity from many different aspects. All I can say is that not all of what I have learned gels.

This is going to be my last post here if you guys don't actually take the time to READ what I and process what I'm saying. You keep on one point, excluding everything else I have said. I'm getting tired of having a non-debate.
 
Ladybug: Don't let consequentathiest get to you, he has this habit recently of being overly snotty to everyone. Probably menopause or something.
 
Ok. The first site cites this book. Holy Blood, Holy Grail a book which spreads misconceptions about Jesus traveling to France etc.

If you search the web for the First Council of Nicea, you will come up with many web pages, some of which agree with you, some of which agree with me. Some of the ones that agree with me are written by religious leaders. Whose are yours written by?
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Yes, it's a widespread lie used by protestants that the catholic church was founded in 325AD. When you search, try to find a .edu site, by using site:.edu or whatever, that agrees with yourself. If you want to find an explanation of why Jesus was God even from old testament sources, try <a href = "http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250101.htm">here</a>
 
Ladybug said:
I don't know how many of you have heard this one, but it is quite true that until May 20th of 325 (almost 300 years after Christ died), Jesus was not considered a deity.
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M*W: This is what I had always thought, but ConsequentAtheist corrected my recent post and stated it to be a much later day around 397 AD, I seem to recall.
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The Roman emporer Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea that day to debate whether or not Jesus was a God. After a long debate on the subject, the council voted to call him a deity. The Roman Catholic church has since spent much time, effort, and (I'm sure) money, trying to keep the Bible from having conflicting stories. They have the conflicting stories hidden away under the Vatican. Wouldn't you LOVE to get into the vaults under the Vatican? Can you imagine all of the information down there? All of the things that the Pope doesn't want you to know.
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M*W: Yes, this is true, and as a tourist at the Vatican, I got the heebie jeebies when I thought about the lies it concealed! One of the highlights, however, was going down into a sub-basement that houses the crypts of some dead rotting popes. That's a smell you'd never forget.

My point, I guess, is that just because you read it in a book, yes even the Bible, does not make it the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If you look, you will discover that there are lots and lots of "truths" out there. You just need to open up your eyes, not to mention your mind a little.

And for those of you who will come back with, "But the Bible is a HOLY book," just remember: it was written and edited by men, some of whom had political or other agendas. Men are not Gods, they are humans first and foremost.
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Hello Fellow Christians,


CHRIST ---> the anointed one, the Greek name for Messiah;

There is a very important reason that Jesus said, "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, `I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.- (Matt.24:4-5) Also Jesus warned, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive 'The Very Elect'." - ( Matt. 24:24 ).

, Also Jesus "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but MY WORDS shall not pass away." (Matt.Rev.24:35) --- "ALL POWER is given unto Me in heaven and earth" - (Matthew 28:18),

Because Jesus overcame and went to the Father, He was granted to sit down with his Father in his throne, and He was given his New Name. From his FATHER, Jesus has been granted the position/office of THE ALMIGHTY in Oneness with his Father. Jesus, using His New Name, introduced Himself to to John saying, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending," And because of this Jesus the Alpha and Omega said, "Him that overcometh, --- I will write upon him the name of my God, --- and I will write upon him My New Name." This is the reason why Jesus DID NOT introduce himself to John by saying, "I am the Christ" in the following, "I am Alpha and Omega ---" - (Rev.1:8) --- "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore ---" - (Rev.1:17-18) Jesus has not been 'The Christ' since He went to his Father and has been granted the position/office of THE ALMIGHTY in Oneness with his Father.

Before Jesus went to the Father, He said, "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another comforter, that He may abide with you forever;" (John 14:16), --- "But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, "He shall testify of Me." - (John 15:26)

"He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of mine, and the Father
hath are mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." - (John 16:14-15).

"He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"
"Of Sin, because they believe not on Me;
Of Righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye SEE ME NO MORE.
Of Judgment, because the Prince of this world is judged." - (John 16:7-11)

Jesus said, --- "Nevertheless I tell you; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." (John 16:7)

"I will send Him unto you." (John 16:8) ---> The Revelation to John is about the One that Jesus the Alpha and Omega will send, and give Him power over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron. - (Rev.2:26-27). The One that will be given power/authority over the nations is He that overcometh - (Rev.2:26-27), ---> is "a man child, One who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" - (Rev.12:5), ---> " --- he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. --- he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron." - (Rev.19:13-16).

In chapter 5 of the Revelation to John, John writes, "I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

IT IS WRITTEN in Rev.5:1-14 who is worthy to open the book, and who took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne?

We already know that Jesus the Alpha and Omega is "him that sitteth upon the throne" who has been given ALL POWER in heaven and on the earth. SO, Who is worthy to open the book, and who took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
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