Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?

[nebel]

I like you to have another look at this question:

Am I reading this correctly?
Is it your contention that for a rotating sphere, one side of the sphere rotates at twice the speed as the other side?
If that is truly your contention ----?

Let's try a thought experiment imagine a satellite that stays in orbit directly between the Sun and Jupiter, plus another satellite that stays in orbit on the other side of Jupiter in a line with the sun and Jupiter. Hopefully that makes sense, 2 satellites on opposite sides of Jupiter on a line drawn through Jupiter from the sun that remain in that position as Jupiter orbits the Sun. Lets put a beacon on Jupiter that rotates with Jupiter.
If we measured the speed of the beacon as it revolves around Jupiter, is it your contention that we would measure a speed that was twice as fast on the night side as the day side? Do you see a problem with this?

No I am not saying that, but if you look at it from the field of the sun "fixed" rather than from satellites moving moving with the planet. yes I am saying that for Saturn and Jupiter. To see why, please watch the animations in the videos below:
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/rolling.htm
Yes it is my contention, that seen from fixed points in line with the sun , watching a laser shining out from the equators of Saturn, Jupiter , the beam would linger in the noon position, but measure to move at ~ twice the orbital speed during the the midnight phase.
To see the equivalent situation demonstrated in the NSW university videos, imagine the driving wheel carrying a laser shining on the floor and the ceiling during a rotation. The spot will come to a halt on the floor, but hurry along at twice the speed on the ceiling.
Saturn, Jupiters equators move like that.

 

[nebel]

Note how just the marker on the circle moves in, and for a brief instant is motionless with respect to the center before moving off again. None of the other markers at different radii of the circle do this they all, including the center of the circle where the Sun would be, are in constant motion. The only reason that one point does "stop" for an instant is that, during that one moment, its tangential speed and distance relative to the center of the planet is equal to that of the surface of the planet and thus their instantaneous angular velocity are the same in that instant.[/I]

Janus, using your description here for the NSW uni videos,
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/rolling.htm
here is the point, The wheels, are at zero velocity touch with the road way,
in the (VoxVr)xR application, the planets are in zero velocity touch with the milky way

 

[nebel]

If you were to stand on the Sun and watch a fixed point on the equator of the planet (i.e. a point that rotates with the planet), then during a half-rotation period of the planet (half day), you'd see that point moving fast (at the orbital speed of the planet) at "dawn", then slowing to a stop at "noon" (planet time), then apparently speeding up again until "sunset". You'd be watching the addition of the planet's orbital velocity being constantly added to a projection of the point's rotational velocity in the direction perpendicular to the line of sight.

In prograde planets, the rotational velocity is subtracting from the orbital velocity, because they both work in opposite directions on the sunny side. That can lead to longer exposures. Take the moon, using the (V0:Vr)xR formula puts us in the focus , the zero velocity zone, The moon can never escape earth shine, even during an"earth transit" , called a lunar eclipse here,--Raleigh scattering (thank you exchemist) will see to it. point being:
The combination of rotation and revolution can really prolong the exposure time to the central source of [even reflected] radiation.

 

[river]

So nebel

Are you saying that , north and south rotation cancels each other at the equator ?

 

[nebel]

The only north to south rotation I can think of is the newly discovered doughnut with binary stars in 90 degrees orbit plane , dar matter halos, and of course Uranuns, who if you look doen from our north,, accepted even for the galaxy, rolls like a barrel, north to south, and yes, even here, when in line with the orbit movement, there is a near cancellation and doubling of orbital and rotational velocities for the widest part, just like a ball rolls at so that at the one contact point. it is at rest with the field.
On Jupiter the OP, there is no north south rotation. but latitude bands. a gradient from pole to equator. Only the midday equator would not be in a blur with a narrowly focused camera. Poles and sunup and sundown regions zipping by. all while the rotation itself is steady. counterintuitive, yes, rotational reality, yes.

 

[river]

The only north to south rotation I can think of is the newly discovered doughnut with binary stars in 90 degrees orbit plane , dar matter halos, and of course Uranuns, who if you look doen from our north,, accepted even for the galaxy, rolls like a barrel, north to south, and yes, even here, when in line with the orbit movement, there is a near cancellation and doubling of orbital and rotational velocities for the widest part, just like a ball rolls at so that at the one contact point. it is at rest with the field.
On Jupiter the OP, there is no north south rotation. but latitude bands. a gradient from pole to equator. Only the midday equator would not be in a blur with a narrowly focused camera. Poles and sunup and sundown regions zipping by. all while the rotation itself is steady. counterintuitive, yes, rotational reality, yes.

Think again

The Sun has both , north pole and south pole rotation . As does Earth .

Which both meet at the equator of both

 

[nebel]

The Sun has both , north pole and south pole rotation . As does Earth .

Which both meet at the equator of both

This thread is about two velocities,1) revolution, orbital and 2) rotational, spin. the interaction between the two.
Please provide a sketch, or description about polar rotations meeting at the equator. perhaps it is worthy of another topic.?
There is no rotation right at the poles, Earth and Sun rotate around their "stationary" geographic poles. or?

 

[river]

This thread is about two velocities,1) revolution, orbital and 2) rotational, spin. the interaction between the two.
Please provide a sketch, or description about polar rotations meeting at the equator. perhaps it is worthy of another topic.?
There is no rotation right at the poles, Earth and Sun rotate around their "stationary" geographic poles. or?

There is rotation right at the poles . It would be a weak but focused rotation

 

[nebel]

There is rotation right at the poles . It would be a weak but focused rotation

indeed, but it would be hard to pinpoint the absolute central axis point at any given time, with the moon and planets all pulling to get their barycentres right. The idea of this thread was, that the poles are sailing in their orbits at a steady pace, equidistant that they are to the center of mass. The combined velocities of rotation and orbit at the equator, as seen from a steady point is another matter. with the formula (Vo:Vr) x Radius, all outer planets show the velocities matching within ~ twice the radius. The Earth/ Moon have matching velocities in their respective orbits! Venus and Mars touching each other orbits long range, due to Venus' slow. retrograde rotation. so
Where the polar rotation comes into this scheme, I dont know. Poles are the axes. steady. It is not there where orbit /spin velocities add up or subtract. thank you.

 

[nebel]

"--it is a mystery how bands like these are confined to such narrow widths, because Uranus and Neptune have very broad westward-blowing wind jets.--"
quoted from ynamic atmospheres of Uranus, Neptune." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 7 February 2019. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190207114955.htm>
a reminder, that near- cancellation of orbital and rotational velocities near the midriff of the outer planets creates an enhanced gravitational and thermal gradient.

 

[nebel]

Uranus and Neptune have very broad westward-blowing wind jets.

In this quote from
Science Daily "Dynamic atmospheres of Uranus, Neptune. Date: February 7, 2019; Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center; Summary: NASA's Hubble Space Telescope ",
These westward blowing winds would appear to go in a direction contrary to the rotation. In the present alternative theory, they would somehow have their origin
on the night side of planets except for Venus, because it is there, as shown in the sketch below, with respect to the "stationary" planetary field, the Vo and Vr add up. Or, by way of illustration , If you measured the windspeed on the NSW University bike example, on top of the tire going forward, the apparent windspeed would be double the speed in your face. face it. Now, can greater movement through space influence atmospheric dynamics? ?

If space influences the planets, the outer combined velocities would induce counterrotating phenomenas at night.

 

[nebel]

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20190208 (thank you Yazata).
Because it is relevant, Commenting here on the flatness of Ultima Thule, the flattening of the two objects should have something to do with the spin (prior or after merger) of the accumulated matter. The method of finding the "squashed "shape, --the background star occultation,- also suggests tumble not only spin.
Using the formula (Vorbit: Vrotation)xRadius for the other enigmatic object Oumuamua, gave the same values as the average steroid. so: it will be interesting when rotation data are published. for the squashed snowman.
when an object spins fast enough, depending on the material, the it will flatten, and the smaller body is flattened less (walnut compared to pancake). The spin model fits.

 

[nebel]

It started with Jupiter and led to startling results for many bodies, so, let us apply (Vo:Vr)xR to KBO 2014Mug69 aka Ultima Thule
Orbital velocity: ~16 000 km/h; diameter long axis 32km; rotation period 15 hrs. Circumference travel of rotating tip ~ 100km, rotational velocity 6.7 km/h,
16000:6.7= 2388 x 16*= 38 208 km. distant Zero Velocity Zone ~ 1/3 the value seen for Oumuamua or the average asteroid. * UT rotates off center, so the outer tip describes a larger circle, possibly lowering the value for the zero velocity zone.
for what it is worth. most other bodies' data have given meaningful results. see page# 7 post# 140
doing pseudo science with real life data.
As a side note: both lobes, Ultima and Thule had their distinct rotations before their merger, and if prograde, at point of contact must have had opposing directions, grinding with added speed, unlike Venus and Earth, or Mars, which would touch with more synchronisation.

 

[nebel]

This thread is about the cancellation of opposing orbital and rotational velocities on the sunny sides of most planets (Venus excepted).
In 150 days there will be a solar eclipse visible in sunny Chile's telescope countryside. The Moon then will be at a point where, were the earth radius extended, be at zero velocity with respect to the Earth surface and the sun. Or, to picture it another way, a ring at moon distance affixed rigidly to the earth surface would be at standstill, like a tire on the road with respect to the ecliptic field. A minor coincident of the (V orbit : V rotation) x Radius formula.

 

[nebel]

Here is another stunning Jupiter picture, (c) BBC/ Nasa/Caltech/ Gill and a reminder that the enigma BBC mentions might include the fact, that the clear equatorial region is where the clouds are at at near standstill with respect to the illuminating sun.

just like the tires of the revived 1000 mph Bloodhound car (c) Lochhart/Farrington/ Telegraph

with the car&driver hopefully going at 1000+ mph, the tires will touch the road at zero velocity,* just like Jupiter's equator the Mach Inertia Field.
* the tires will just be freely spinning, like Jupiter

 

[nebel]

A very close look at Jupiter situation, the theme of the OP is, that
The moon Europa is the one that is closest in the zero velocity position when lined up with the sun, the stellar Mach field. To be exact: Europa Vo 13.74 km/s Jupiter Vo. 13.1 km/s
Jupiter's equator rotates ~ 3% slower than that, and the poles not at all, so, a gradient exists during noon between Europa at standstill increasing toward the poles, sunup and sun down at full Orbital Velocity.
Strong magnetic resonance interaction in the Europa/ Ganymede region have been detected. is there a zero velocity connection possible?

 

[nebel]

In the light of the OP, Looking at Saturn, It has 2 zero velocity situations, or an extended zero velocity area too, like Jupiter of OP frame.
The moons Rhea with 8.49 km/s and Dionne 10.3 km/sec orbital velocity move backward against and ~cancel Saturn's parent prograde orbital velocity of 9.7 km/sec and almost equally backward it's V- surface rotation of < 9.87 km/s. so.
Although at different distances from the center, at Saturn are multiple areas where matter is at a standstill at noon with respect to the Sun , on the planet and the moons in transit! and
If our Moon at 384 000 Km orbit radius would be considered to be at Saturn, it would be right in the zero velocity zone middle, between Rhea and Dionne (see mystery planet).
alternative theories material here!?

 

[nebel]

The moon Europa is the one that is closest in the zero velocity position when lined up with the sun, the stellar Mach field. To be exact: Europa Vo 13.74 km/s Jupiter Vo. 13.1 km/s

and with all these moon's rotation in tidal lock with their parent body, would not their surfaces, not only their center of mass all be at a near standstill at noon, during transit? four values all coinciding adding, subtracting up to nearly zero? like with the Saturn system?

 

[nebel]

When we give the orbital velocity of Jupiter as 13.07 km/sec. we mean that as measured against the Sun or other stellar sidereal "fixed" frame of reference. Measured against that same "fixed" field, the equator at noon moves at 12.6 km/sec slower, at only 4% of the sidereal speed at the poles. so, while
The planet more or less turns steadily, like a turntable on itself, in the solar, stellar field, there is a shear from the noon equator's .47 km/sec.* rotational/ orbital velocity to the 13.07 km/sec at the poles. If there is anything happening in that field, this shear, this difference in velocities would surely have some effects.
The moon Europa from the stellar perspective by contrast is at noon going 5 % faster retrograde.
* coincidentally very close to the Earth's real equatorial rotating velocity of .46 km/sec.

 

[nebel]

There is a universal constant, the value for "c" the peed of light, or gravitational change. At the other end of the spectrum would be "zero velocity" with respect to a near universal reference frame, the sidereal or star field.
While at c movement through time comes to a halt. the opposite is true of standstill, movement through time is normal, or at it's maximum.
This thread has pointed out many areas where movement against the sidereal field truly is near a standstill, movement through time at it's best.