Kali, Shiva and Parvati

[one_raven]

What's what here?

In the Wiki article about Kali, it states that her consort is Shiva.
In the Wiki article about Shiva, it states that his consort is Parvati.

Can someone straighten this out for me please?

The Wiki article about Kali is not exactly straight-forward, and I am looking for a better one.
Can you help with that as well, please?

 

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I find about.com articles generally better: http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa051202a.htm

 

[one_raven]

I find about.com articles generally better: http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa051202a.htm

So, Kali was born of Durga?
Parvati is a manifestation Durga?
Who was Kali's consort? Did she have one?

 

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By the way, I have read both opinions about the consort of Shiva - Kali and Parvati.
Hinduism is not so uniform, it's been here for many thousands of years and widspread among different people, the mythology is still alive and fluid, what can especially be said about hindu gods who are different aspects of themselves, or different aspects of the Mother goddess as in the most ancient hindu myths.

 

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So, Kali was born of Durga?
Parvati is a manifestation Durga?
Who was Kali's consort? Did she have one?

Don't look at hindu mythology as a mirror of the human biological order.
One god can be two gods at the same time.
What I find helpful and particulary with hindu mythology is to look at gods as personifications of some dynamic aspect of the universe, what I think they really are.

A Storm can be the consort of the Sky and the mother of Wind, and Wind can be the god Air which at the same time is Sky.

 

[S.A.M.]

You have to remember that at some point, all Hindu gods and goddesses are manifestations of the Brahman.

Kali is one aspect, Durga another, both are portrayed as individualistic powerful women; Kali also hates all men. Parvati however is the ideal consort, so she is always shown with Shiva.

 

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I find the word Brahman too local and antique to be used in a globalised world, Universe is a more modern linguistic solution that means the same.

 

[S.A.M.]

I find the word Brahman too local and antique to be used in a globalised world, Universe is a more modern linguistic solution that means the same.

Brahman is not synonymous to universe.

Brahman, the Absolute God of Hindus, is a very mysterious Being. In Hinduism He occupies the highest place, as the creator and enjoyer of all creation. He is the Light and Delight of the Universe, the Ruler and the Lord, without a beginning and without an end, indestructible, indescribable, blissfully immersed in Himself and all by Himself. The concept of Brahman and His relationship with individual souls, nature and His manifestation is the subject of many schools of Hindu philosophy. Some schools believe that he is both the efficient and material cause of his creation. Some believe that He is only an efficient cause and that Prakriti is the material cause. There is also considerable speculation about the relationship between Brahman and the individual souls. Some believe that they are the same and some believe that they are different.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/brahmanmain.asp

Brahman (nominative brahma ब्रह्म) is the concept of the supreme spirit found in Hinduism. Brahman is the unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything beyond in this universe. The nature of Brahman is described as transpersonal, personal and impersonal by different philosophical schools. In the Rig Veda, Brahman gives rise to the primordial being Hiranyagarbha that is equated with the creator God Brahmā. The trimurti can thus be considered a personification of hiranyagarbha as the active principle behind the phenomena of the universe. The seers who inspired the composition of the Upanisads asserted that the liberated soul (jivanmukta) has realized his identity with Brahman as his true self (see Atman (Hinduism)).

The word "Brahman" is derived from the verb brh (Sanskrit:to grow), and connotes greatness. The Mundaka Upanishad says:

Om. That supreme Brahman is infinite, and this conditioned Brahman is infinite. The infinite proceeds from infinite. Then through knowledge, realizing the infinitude of the infinite, it remains as infinite alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

 

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According to the laws of physics particulary the law of the conservation of energy Brahman is the Universe = Energy = unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality.

 

[S.A.M.]

According to the laws of physics particulary the law of the conservation of energy Brahman is the Universe = Energy = unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality.

That should take care of the Vedic discourses on that matter.

The Hindu view of the universe is that it is a subjective reality, the product of maya

Fundamental to Hindu concepts of time and space is the notion that the external world is a product of the creative play of maya (illusion). Accordingly the world as we know it is not solid and real but illusionary. The universe is in constant flux with many levels of reality; the task of the saint is find release (moksha) from the bonds of time and space.

"After a cycle of universal dissolution, the Supreme Being decides to recreate the cosmos so that we souls can experience worlds of shape and solidity. Very subtle atoms begin to combine, eventually generating a cosmic wind that blows heavier and heavier atoms together. Souls depending on their karma earned in previous world systems, spontaneously draw to themselves atoms that coalesce into an appropriate body." - The Prashasta Pada.

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Hindu_Cosmology.htm

Lord Vishnu is said to rest in the coils of Ananta, the great serpent of Infinity, while he waits for the universe to recreate itself.

 

[S.A.M.]

Also Hindus do not believe in a linear universe:ie past. present, future

"The Indians, whose theory of time, is not linear like ours – that is, not proceeding consecutively from past to present to future – have always been able to accept, seemingly without anxiety, the notion of an alternately expanding and contracting universe, an idea recently advanced by certain Western scientists. In Hindu cosmology, immutable Brahman, at fixed intervals, draws back into his beginningless, endless Being the whole substance of the living world. There then takes place the long “sleep” of Brahaman from which, in course of countless aeons, there is an awakening, and another universe or “dream” emerges. "

Vedic mythology divides the world into different ages:

In Vedic mythology, a fabled dawn time existed in the distant past, when human beings had direct contact with the divine intelligence emanating from Brahma—the seat of creative power and intelligence in the cosmos. This archaic Golden Age (the Satya Yuga) lasted some 4800 years. After the Golden Age ended, humanity entered a denser era, that of the Silver Age, lasting only 3600 years. In this age, humanity’s connection with the source was dimmed, and sacrifices and spiritual practices became necessary to preserve it. The Bronze Age followed, and humanity forgot its divine nature. Empty dogmas arose, along with indulgence in materialism. Next we entered the Kali Yuga—in which we remain today—where the human spirit suffers under gross materialism, ignorance, warfare, stupidity, arrogance, and everything contrary to our divine spiritual potential.

As the teachings tell, Kali, the creator-destroyer Goddess, will appear at the end of Kali Yuga to sweep away the wasted detritus of a spirit-dead humanity, making way for a new cycle of light and peace. Notice that the Manu text takes us from a pinnacle of light to the ultimate end-point of the process—the darkness of Kali Yuga. And notice that the four ages, when the overlap period is added, amounts to only half of the 24,000-year period of the Vedic Yuga cycle.

 

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That should take care of the Vedic discourses on that matter.

The Hindu view of the universe is that it is a subjective reality, the product of maya


http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Hindu_Cosmology.htm

Lord Vishnu is said to rest in the coils of Ananta, the great serpent of Infinity, while he waits for the universe to recreate itself.

Of course. Nature is of a higher truth than one particular interpretation of some local beliefs.
Reading Upanishads replace Brahman with Universe, see what happens.

 

[S.A.M.]

Or, I could ignore the Vedas and Upanishads entirely and just read Alice in Wonderland

Hinduism is much more than the Upanishads. Just reading one aspect of it to reach your conclusions, is IMO, a disservice to its vast philosophy.

 

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Also Hindus do not believe in a linear universe:ie past. present, future

Neither do modern physics, time is relative.

Vedic mythology divides the world into different ages:

I can divide a year into three parts of four parts, neither changes the nature of the year.
Besides it has nothing to do with Brahman = Universe.

 

[S.A.M.]

Neither do modern physics, time is relative.

I can divide a year into three parts of four parts, neither changes the nature of the year.
Besides it has nothing to do with Brahman = Universe.

Its the division of one cycle of the universe by Brahman.

Thus each kalpa is worth one day in the life of Brahma, the God of creation. In other words, the four ages of the mahayuga must be repeated a thousand times to make a "day ot Brahma", a unit of time that is the equivalent of 4.32 billion human years, doubling which one gets 8.64 billion years for a Brahma day and night. This was later theorized (possibly independently) by Aryabhata in the 6th century. The cyclic nature of this analysis suggests a universe that is expanding to be followed by contraction... a cosmos without end.

Also:

The 8.64 billion years that mark a full day-and-night cycle in Brahma’s life is about half the modern estimate for the age of the universe. The ancient Hindus believed that each Brahma day and each Brahma night lasted a kalpa, 4.32 billion years, with 72,000 kalpas equaling a Brahma century, 311,040 billion years in all. That the Hindus could conceive of the universe in terms of billions.

 

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Or, I could ignore the Vedas and Upanishads entirely and just read Alice in Wonderland

Hinduism is much more than the Upanishads. Just reading one aspect of it to reach your conclusions, is IMO, a disservice to its vast philosophy.

Upanishads are the latest and most progressive development of Hinduism.
It's not a static thing, it's a philosophy and mythology that has been in development for thousands of years. The quality of the most early works is far lesser.

If you write a book on science for 5000 years the first chapters would be outdated nonsence when you get to the last chapters.

 

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Its the division of one cycle of the universe by Brahman.

Also:

The division is that of man - in his mind and how he interprets the world. The reality is transcendant, unchanging.

 

[S.A.M.]

The division is that of man - in his mind and how he interprets the world. The reality is transcendant, unchanging.

There is also a mythology about that:

Maya, as per Hindu thought, is illusion, and what mankind understands to be reality is in fact the dream of Brahma. Brahma is the creator and great magician who dreams the universe into being. The dream itself is maintained by Vishnu, the Preserver, who uses maya to spin the complex web that we know as reality. It is not that the world itself is an illusion, only our perception of it. Whereas we suppose the universe to be made up of a multitude of objects, structures and events, the theory of maya asserts that all things are one. Rational categories are mere fabrications of the human mind and have no ultimate reality.

 

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So, as I said, Brahman = Universe = Energy according to modern physics AND hinduism.

 

[S.A.M.]

You are welcome to your opinion.