Lapis Lazuli: Some Real Chemistry for Mr G

exchemist

Valued Senior Member
I visited the minerals gallery at the London Natural History Museum a few days ago and was struck by the intense blue colour of the specimens of lapis lazuli on display. This material was very valuable in the Ancient and Medieval worlds, both as a pigment and for decorative objects. I recall from my time in Dubai that the Arabic word for the colour blue is azraq (m) or zarqa (f.), from which we get "azure", so presumably lazuli comes from the same root. (Lapis is just Latin for stone, obvs.) Anyway I thought I'd check up on its chemistry, this being real chemistry of the type Mr. G likes, as opposed to the quantum chemistry he affects to despise ;) .

I had assumed the colour would be due to copper. cf. copper sulphate, and was surprised formula is:

Na₇Ca(Al₆Si₆O₂₄)(SO₄)(S₃).H₂O , i.e no transition metal ion is present, let alone the Cu I had been fairly confidently expecting!

Turns out the clue is in the S₃. This is present in the form of the trisulphide radical anion, S₃⁻•, a curious species that breaks the "normal" rules for stability and bonding by having an unpaired electron. I always find rule-breaking chemistry intriguing, but in this case I was particularly interested to find the reason for the blue colour, as inorganic compounds without transition metals tend not to be strongly coloured. This radical anion, however, has a strong absorption band in the orange region of the visible spectrum, and thus reflects mainly blue light.

Now to the bit that will annoy Mr G:-
I didn't manage to find a molecular orbital diagram for it on the internet but presumed the odd electron might be in a relatively high energy orbital from which it can be promoted to another one, close enough in energy for the light absorbed to be in the visible rather than the UV. I found that S₃ itself is regarded as having a similar bonding scheme to ozone, i.e. the centre atom sp2 hybridised, with one lone pair. I also found that the extra odd electron indeed goes into a π*- antibonding orbital, which will be fairly high in energy, thus making the energy gap between it and the range of unpopulated electronic states into which it can be excited by absorption of light somewhat narrower than usual. This accounts for absorption in the visible region.

As to why this radical anion seems to be stable in lapis lazuli, perhaps there are two factors. One is that this π*-antibonding orbital extends across all 3 sulphur atoms, smearing out the "free radical" character, so it doesn't weaken the bonding that much. (In fact, neutral sulphur atoms have a +ve electron affinity, so the addition of an extra electron is exothermic and exergonic, i.e. ΔG<0). The other factor is that the aluminosilicate structure is of the zeolite type, which has large "cages", capable of accommodatng large ions like trisulphide. Each S₃⁻• ion is thus held within a cage in the crystal lattice and has little opportunity to react with anything. The formula above shows SO4 and S3 in brackets. There seems to be in practice a variable ratio of sulphate to sulphide in the mineral, the sulphate ions being alternative occupants of the cages. I presume this must involve some variation of the Na/Ca ratio to preserve electrical neutrality, though I have not found anything to confirm this.

Anyway, a nice little thing to research, for someone with an interest in chemistry.

P.S. There seems to be quite a family of these polysulphide anions. There's a guy at Calgary called Tristram Chivers, an expat Brit, who has published quite a lot on the subject. Here's a review he has co-authored for the Royal Society of Chemistry: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2019/cs/c8cs00826d
 
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Additional interesting facts...it's a rock rather than a mineral since a mineral is only made up of one substance and Lapis is made up of several minerals, lazurite behind the main one. The name is derived from the Persian and Arabic words of the name of the place that it was mined. Later that word came to refer to the color a well.

It was used in paintings as "ultramarine" starting in the 1400's.
 
Additional interesting facts...it's a rock rather than a mineral since a mineral is only made up of one substance and Lapis is made up of several minerals, lazurite behind the main one. The name is derived from the Persian and Arabic words of the name of the place that it was mined. Later that word came to refer to the color a well.

It was used in paintings as "ultramarine" starting in the 1400's.
Good point about the distinction between the rock and lazurite.

What is/was the place whose name led to the word for the colour? This sounds a bit unlikely to me, as it would seem more natural to name a colour after some more familiar blue object, such as the sky.
 
Good point about the distinction between the rock and lazurite.

What is/was the place whose name led to the word for the colour? This sounds a bit unlikely to me, as it would seem more natural to name a colour after some more familiar blue object, such as the sky.
All the explanations are confusing, due to translating Persian, Arabic and Latin I suppose but they all say both (the color and the place). Upon probing more I think it may be the reverse in a sense. The stone is from a region and a color but I now think it started as a name for the color and then the region began to be referred to by that same color as well.

It would be like calling emeralds green gems and then later referring to the mine as "green" mine. The actual name is from the Sar-e-sang region of Afghanistan.
 
Good point about the distinction between the rock and lazurite.

What is/was the place whose name led to the word for the colour? This sounds a bit unlikely to me, as it would seem more natural to name a colour after some more familiar blue object, such as the sky.
I'm interested in the colour physics! That is a beautiful bright blue!
 
I'm interested in the colour physics! That is a beautiful bright blue!
According to the RSC review paper by Chivers and Steudel which I linked, S₃•⁻ has an absorption band in the region 595-620nm, which would take out the orange and yellow wavelengths. That would seem, on the face of it, to leave some red and green to be reflected along with the blue, but I suppose it is then a matter of how that combination is interpeted by the human visual system. Or maybe the band is broadened in some way by the environment of the ion, sitting in a zeolite cage in this lazurite mineral - I don't know.
 
According to the RSC review paper by Chivers and Steudel which I linked, S₃•⁻ has an absorption band in the region 595-620nm, which would take out the orange and yellow wavelengths. That would seem, on the face of it, to leave some red and green to be reflected along with the blue, but I suppose it is then a matter of how that combination is interpeted by the human visual system.
The Sulphur anion acts as the chromophore? Among all that other stuff?
I know squat about colour minerals and gem stones.
 
According to the RSC review paper by Chivers and Steudel which I linked, S₃•⁻ has an absorption band in the region 595-620nm, which would take out the orange and yellow wavelengths. That would seem, on the face of it, to leave some red and green to be reflected along with the blue, but I suppose it is then a matter of how that combination is interpeted by the human visual system. Or maybe the band is broadened in some way by the environment of the ion, sitting in a zeolite cage in this lazurite mineral - I don't know.
Could it be that it simply doesn't reflect enough red and green for the eye to detect?

The synthetic version Ultramarine is sometimes sold as French Ultramarine and it does have a warmer tint but I don't know about the chemistry of Lapis Lazuli (and you do...).
 
The Sulphur anion acts as the chromophore? Among all that other stuff?
I know squat about colour minerals and gem stones.
Yes exactly. It's the chromophore due to this odd electron sitting in a fairly high-lying antibonding orbital, from which it can be promoted to one of the possible excited states by a relatively low energy photon with a frequency in the visible, rather than the UV as might otherwise be expected.

The chromophore of organic dyes is a bit different. In the ground state of these there is no population of antibonding orbitals, but because they are highly conjugated systems, the first π* antibonding orbital is of quite low energy.

So both are coloured due to a relatively narrow energy gap between ground state and excited state. In the dyes that is due to a low lying excited state, whereas in the trisulphide radical anion it is due a high lying ground state.

At least, that would be my understanding.

P.S. I remember being delighted to learn at last, at university, why the indicators used in acid/base titrations change colour, something that had bothered me a bit in the 6th form. It's because the addition or departure of H+, at some position in the molecule, rearranges the π-bonding. This alters the energy gap to the first excited state and -bingo - the colour changes. :)
 
Could it be that it simply doesn't reflect enough red and green for the eye to detect?

The synthetic version Ultramarine is sometimes sold as French Ultramarine and it does have a warmer tint but I don't know about the chemistry of Lapis Lazuli (and you do...).
Possibly. I suppose it depends on how far the envelope of the absorption band extends. I can imagine that if one had a zeolite structure with trisulphide in some of the cages, but adjacent cages were occupied by varying numbers of trisulphide and/or sulphate and/or Na/Ca cations, then these other ions might slightly influence the environment of the trisulphide ions to varying degrees and that might shift the energy levels of their orbitals, thereby shifting the absorption spectrum a bit. So that would lead to a more diffuse absorption region overall, taking in more of the green and red at the edges.

But this is now just me speculating. We do know that lazurite doesn't have a tidy, fixed composition and that either sulphate or trisulphide can occupy the cages in the structure. And the cations have to fit in somewhere, too. I haven't looked into that part of it.

Mineralogy is bloody complicated.
 
Possibly. I suppose it depends on how far the envelope of the absorption band extends. I can imagine that if one had a zeolite structure with trisulphide in some of the cages, but adjacent cages were occupied by varying numbers of trisulphide and/or sulphate and/or Na/Ca cations, then these other ions might slightly influence the environment of the trisulphide ions to varying degrees and that might shift the energy levels of their orbitals, thereby shifting the absorption spectrum a bit. So that would lead to a more diffuse absorption region overall, taking in more of the green and red at the edges.

But this is now just me speculating. We do know that lazurite doesn't have a tidy, fixed composition and that either sulphate or trisulphide can occupy the cages in the structure. And the cations have to fit in somewhere, too. I haven't looked into that part of it.

Mineralogy is bloody complicated.
You can do opal next...:)
 
You can do opal next...:)
Hmm, looking quickly at that, opal is more physics than chemistry, the colours coming from diffraction through/off the microscopic spheres of quartz of which it is composed. So it’s not really a crystalline mineral but an aggregation of these spheres, which have dimensions of the same order as the wavelength of visible light, hence the diffraction.

But I didn’t know that, so thanks for the suggestion. :)

And they do have some nice opals at the Natural History Museum….
 
Hmm, looking quickly at that, opal is more physics than chemistry, the colours coming from diffraction through/off the microscopic spheres of quartz of which it is composed. So it’s not really a crystalline mineral but an aggregation of these spheres, which have dimensions of the same order as the wavelength of visible light, hence the diffraction.

But I didn’t know that, so thanks for the suggestion. :)

And they do have some nice opals at the Natural History Museum….
They have some nice jewels at the Tower of London as I recall:)
 
RE: Lapis Lazuli: Some Real Chemistry for Mr G
SUBTOPIC: My Chemistry Shortfalls
⁜→ exchemist, et al,

[(OFF-TOPIC) (From Posting #685 - Write4U's wobbly world of word salad woo)]

My weakest point in the hard sciences has to be "Chemistry." I've seen some people on the Lecture and Talk Circuit cut through the topics like a hot knife through butter. Whereas, I'm somewhere lost within the first 5 minutes. Somewhere in these various lofty discussions, there was a thread on the nature of historical aspects in the evolution of chemistry. So I started with the "Alchemist." I thought it was interesting that the Alchemist began their "Periodic Table" long before Dmitri Mendeleev invented the first of the modern-day "Table" (1869) in use today.

1741476791148.png

I thought it was interesting the subscript notation on the Alchemy Table: "omnia unvs est" ≈ "Everything is Everywhere." Today, we say "We are made of star stuff." What I learned in chemistry could not fill a thimble. Yet, I cannot reconcile the description of a "Particle-Wave" like an electron with the way an electron is exchanged between basic elements. As the complexities of cosmologies reveal to us that something is missing, so I think the same of modern-day chemistry (something is missing).

1611604183365-png.448413.png
Most Respectfully,
R

[Notes]



• FRATER ALBERTUS The Alchemist's Handbook (Manual for Practical Laboratory), Third Printing 1978 © 1974 Paracelsus Research Society, Salt Lake City, Utah, U.S.A.
ISBN 0 87728 181 5
 
RE: Lapis Lazuli: Some Real Chemistry for Mr G
SUBTOPIC: My Chemistry Shortfalls
⁜→ exchemist, et al,

[(OFF-TOPIC) (From Posting #685 - Write4U's wobbly world of word salad woo)]

My weakest point in the hard sciences has to be "Chemistry." I've seen some people on the Lecture and Talk Circuit cut through the topics like a hot knife through butter. Whereas, I'm somewhere lost within the first 5 minutes. Somewhere in these various lofty discussions, there was a thread on the nature of historical aspects in the evolution of chemistry. So I started with the "Alchemist." I thought it was interesting that the Alchemist began their "Periodic Table" long before Dmitri Mendeleev invented the first of the modern-day "Table" (1869) in use today.

View attachment 6583

I thought it was interesting the subscript notation on the Alchemy Table: "omnia unvs est" ≈ "Everything is Everywhere." Today, we say "We are made of star stuff." What I learned in chemistry could not fill a thimble. Yet, I cannot reconcile the description of a "Particle-Wave" like an electron with the way an electron is exchanged between basic elements. As the complexities of cosmologies reveal to us that something is missing, so I think the same of modern-day chemistry (something is missing).

View attachment 6582
Most Respectfully,
R

[Notes]



• FRATER ALBERTUS The Alchemist's Handbook (Manual for Practical Laboratory), Third Printing 1978 © 1974 Paracelsus Research Society, Salt Lake City, Utah, U.S.A.
ISBN 0 87728 181 5
This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

"Omnia unus est" would translate as "all is one".
 
RE: Lapis Lazuli: Some Real Chemistry for Mr G
SUBTOPIC: Withdraw
⁜→ exchemist, et al,
This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

"Omnia unus est" would translate as "all is one".
(COMMENT)

You might have noticed that I annotated that the commentary was "OFF-TOPIC."

I interpret your intent is to discredit me rather than address my content on the subject. I thought the topic was interesting ad o a lark, so I decided to engage. I do not contribute much and have managed to entangle myself in a very distasteful discussion rather than remain in the background as I have done for most of the last decade.

As a last point of order, I would like you to notice that I said "omnia unvs est" ≈ "Everything is Everywhere." The symbol "≈" does not mean "translates to," nor does it mean "equal to." But in certain circumstances - I inject literary license into an expression and explain myself.

To avoid further disputes I will withdraw.

1611604183365-png.448413.png

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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