misconceptions about islam v.2.0

[outlandish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvHHYrdiXHE

i think this talk given by Dr zakir Naik is of good interest. Dr naik gives a clear incisive talk addressing many of the misconceptions held by non muslims, and as such i think it is very informative.

 

[draqon]

not giving up, I see...

it will not be long until his temper of Majesty will go overboard...monsieur le Outlandish

 

[outlandish]

yusuf estes v.2.o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79j1L0TQTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Glj_FAGcw

a very insightful talk, one which i think members will find of great interest, and informative.
whether you agree with the content or not is upto the individual, but at the very least it will give you a different,newer,fresher perspective to islam than the one previously held.
furthermore,what makes the talk even more interesting is the fact that yusuf estes was a texan baptist evangelical preacher, one of the the people least likely to embrace islam, which makes what he has to say even more compelling.

i welcome your comments.

 

[(Q)]

It is not informative at all, but a clear misrepresentation. Naik has been called out many times for trying to tie in scientific discoveries and facts with the Quran. Unfortunately, the good doctor doesn't take the time to research the science he misrepresents and usually winds up looking the fool.

 

[outlandish]

It is not informative at all, but a clear misrepresentation.

show exactly where he has misinterpreted.
show what he has misinterpreted.
and how?

Naik has been called out many times for trying to tie in scientific discoveries and facts with the Quran.

by whom?
where/when?
making statements without proof doesnt constitute a valid argument.

Unfortunately, the good doctor doesn't take the time to research the science he misrepresents and usually winds up looking the fool.

he takes more time than you.
he is more knowledgeable than you.

 

[spidergoat]

I have no misconceptions about Islam, it allows for the righteous killing of non-believers.

 

[outlandish]

I have no misconceptions about Islam, it allows for the righteous killing of non-believers.

no it doesn't

 

[(Q)]

show exactly where he has misinterpreted.
show what he has misinterpreted.
and how?

by whom?
where/when?
making statements without proof doesnt constitute a valid argument.

"Glorious Qur’an, in Surah Ambiya, Ch. 21, Verse No. 30, which says…. (Arabic).... Do not the unbelievers see…? …. (Arabic)…. ‘That the heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder?’ Imagine this information which we came to know recently, the Qur’an mentions 14 hundred years ago."

he takes more time than you.
he is more knowledgeable than you.

That is entirely irrelavent and demonstrates more on your lack of argument.

 

[spidergoat]

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 9-5

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. 9-29

 

[outlandish]

edit:
the 1st link did not contain yusuf's own story regarding his journey to islam (which is what i wanted), the following link contains a talk inwhich yusuf discusses his own personal story, which contains many points of interest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6K0627FiCk

 

[outlandish]

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 9-5

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. 9-29

pulling quotes without any background knowledge or context doesn't constitute a valid argument. you are not the 1st person who dislikes islam to do so,and you wont be the last, so even in your ignorance you bring/acheive nothing new.

9:5 So when the sacred months have passed, then slay the polytheists wherever you find them, and capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. But if they repent and keep up the Salat and pay the Zakat, then leave them alone on their path. Surely Allah is most Forgiving, most Rewarding.

9:5 Regarding the significance of sacred months see notes to v. 2. Many malicious critics of Islam fully exploited the outward message of the verse to project a seriously distorted picture of Islam and concluded its militant stance is the cause behind many of the hostilities in the world. Their basic analogy is how this religion, bearing a name of peace, could teach killing innocent people. The critics try to portray every Muslim is required to slay every non-Muslim wherever they may find them, at peace time or otherwise. In this context, it is important to note that nowhere in the Qur’ān, free permission was given to kill anyone anywhere. Therefore, the message of the verse must be objectively analyzed and interpreted in context of the revelation and its application must be done in circumstances similar to that necessitated the revelation.
Regardless of the name or intent of the religion, the Qur’ān, being a complete guide for every problem at personal, communal and state level, must address what should be done if fundamental rights of a community or a nation are violated due to armed aggression and appropriate collective redress cannot be established due to lack of a system to assure peace or disinterest and/or inability of a system to solve the crisis. With or without the Qur’ānic instruction, a Muslim community or a nation is expected to react exactly the same way a non-Muslim community or a nation would react if they are attacked or war is waged against them. Only difference is a non-Muslim community or a nation would defend itself against hostile aggression or war out of their instinctive or constitutional right to protect them, without having to recourse to their scriptures. Since no other scripture claims to contain ‘complete guidance’ for mankind, it is no surprise to see they do not address complex socio-political issues of war and peace.
Before giving the permission to capture, wait in ambush or slay the unbelievers, the Qur’ān made it clear to comply with peace treaty with those who are willing to uphold it (previous verse). It must be remembered that initiative for all peace treaty was made from the Muslim side, as war was not seen as an objective of Islam. It must also be remembered that in the pre-Islamic era and during the development of Islamic era, annulment of peace treaty between two hostile tribes was nothing but declaration of open war. The Muslims were therefore, specifically instructed to fight against those tribes that annulled peace treaty. In this regard, specific notation of 2:190-193 may be made that say: and fight in the way of Allāh against those who fight with you and do not transgress. Thus, war is permissible only in self-defense, and not as an act of active aggression. While in a war Islam permits everything necessary and advisable in warfare, yet it prohibits undue aggression in war (2:190, 193; 8:39,61-62).
The malicious critics of Islam often quote the second half of the verse to imply that non-Muslims were converted into Islam with great degree of coercion. This message must be reviewed in conjunction with several other fundamental ordinances of the Qur’ān that say: there is no compulsion in religion, the Right Path has indeed been made distinct from the wrong (2:256; also see 6:105; 10:99; 18:29; 27:92; 42:15; 73:19; 76:29). Keeping this in mind, the only way the captives in war could be prevented from reverting to hostility upon their release was to make them embrace Islam. Such conversion in Islam was purely as a war strategy and should not be viewed as general approach during peacetime or as intolerance of their faith. In every age, the hostile pastors of many Churches quoted this ruling of the verse in a much generalized sense to incite hatred towards Islam.
Nowhere the verse says the captives were to be converted. Three things about the captives are stated: (a) if they repent, (b) if they keep up salāt, and (c) if they pay zakat, they should be left alone on their path. The condition of professing faith in Islam is clearly absent. Mention of salāt and zakat may have misled the critics into believing the captives were converted into Islam and then left alone. Even before the advent of Islam, the Arabs were accustomed to performing salāt and paying zakat, just as Ibrāhīm, Ismā‘īl, Mūsā, Jesus and their disciples were mandated to perform salāt and pay zakat (19:31,55; 21:73). By sincerely expressing repentance for waging war and then by showing adherence to their form of salāt and zakat, the captives would have rightly demonstrated change in their evil intentions.

http://www.qurancommentary.com/comm9_5.html

also:
http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm

 

[Thoreau]

Freaked me out at first. Seems like he has an American southern accent, then starts talking Arabic, then starts talking English again with a fake Arabic accent. I say "fake" because I spent much time in the middle east and know the language and to me, his accent does not sound authentic.

I have no doubt regarding his loyalty to his faith, however I question is origins of nationality, culture and heritage.

 

[outlandish]

"Glorious Qur’an, in Surah Ambiya, Ch. 21, Verse No. 30, which says…. (Arabic).... Do not the unbelievers see…? …. (Arabic)…. ‘That the heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder?’ Imagine this information which we came to know recently, the Qur’an mentions 14 hundred years ago."

what exactly are you disputing?

 

[outlandish]

Freaked me out at first. Seems like he has an American southern accent, then starts talking Arabic, then starts talking English again with a fake Arabic accent. I say "fake" because I spent much time in the middle east and know the language and to me, his accent does not sound authentic.

I have no doubt regarding his loyalty to his faith, however I question is origins of nationality, culture and heritage.

origins of nationality,culture and heritage have no relevance to islam.
there are over 3 billion muslims worldwide all of different culture,origin,and nationality

 

[Nickelodeon]

there are over 3 billion muslims worldwide all of different culture,origin,and nationality

3 billion? Half the World?

 

[spidergoat]

73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;


There are numerous examples of this kind of hate for non-Muslims. If you can construct a fair society out of this, you must have a great talent for self-deception.

 

[outlandish]

73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;


There are numerous examples of this kind of hate for non-Muslims. If you can construct a fair society out of this, you must have a great talent for self-deception.

again,pulling quotes without any background knowledge or context doesn't constitute a valid argument. you are not the 1st person who dislikes islam to do so,and you wont be the last, so even in your ignorance you bring/acheive nothing new.

 

[spidergoat]

I'm sure a creative apologist could construct some kind of enlightened theory about these passages. Unfortunately, people throughout history have used parts of holy books to justify the most dispicable acts, and Islam is no exception. The language is obviously violent, and leads to violence, no matter what intellectual interpretation is chosen to put a kind face on it.

 

[Thoreau]

origins of nationality,culture and heritage have no relevance to islam.

You are correct, but it does have relevence when it comes to evaluating ones character. His behavior as such I have previously described does not help is credibility. How much do you trust a man that drastically alters his behavior and speech just to "fit in" with someone else?

there are over 3 billion muslims worldwide all of different culture,origin,and nationality

Hate to bust your bubble, but that is an incorrect statement.

Estimates of the total number of Muslims in the world vary greatly:

0.700 billion or more, Barnes & Noble Encyclopedia 1993
0.817 billion, The Universal Almanac (1996)
0.951 billion, The Cambridge Factfinder (1993)
1.100 billion, The World Almanac (1997)
1.200 billion, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic relations)

At a level of 1.2 billion, they represent about 22% of the world's population. They are the second largest religion in the world. Only Christianity is larger, with 33% of the world's inhabitants.

 

[nova900]

origins of nationality,culture and heritage have no relevance to islam

Perhaps not in the idealogy of Islam itself. I personally do not know the Quaran well enough to say , but I have met several Saudi Muslims who look down on muslims outside their country as being "inferior"
and I have worked with Iranian muslims who told me they consider Pakistani muslims as being "not true muslims"