Muhammad's child bride Aisha, the book is on hold in the UK!!!!!!!

[Baron Max]

That's the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.

Ahh, Michael, meet SAM.

She/he will continue to spew forth such drivel as long as you're willing to read it.

I'm convinced that she/he is a paid propagandist for a radical Muslim group, most probably a Palestinian group. Pay attention to how much she/he is on this site spewing forth her/his bullshit ...it's almost continual, yet she/he claims that she/he has a job!!

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

Look Mohammed's religion can be criticized for any number of things, but applying modern customs and laws to ancient times is ridiculous! The same thing happens when people try to apply Mohammed's morals and mores to modern life.

 

[Michael]

My point was to michael who seems to think mohammed was not a paedophile because he was only raping one child his 7 year old wife,

There was no such thing in ancient times, there was no conception of "childhood". Children were just little adults.

First of all, we are talking about a mythical character Mohammad, unless you believe in pixies, fairy dust and moons splitting into two peaces. OK? So, lets agree for now, there never was a real live Mohammad as one would talk about a person alive today - the Mohammad Character was a based on one, two, or many people - all mixed together with a big dash made-up stories.


So, what we are talking about is the tradition of ancient people taking what we would consider as girls as wives. Well, it's quite clear that most African jungle tribal people, Pacific Islander tribal people and nomadic Arab tribal people took girls to be mature when they started their period.

That's VERY common and so we should not expect the Mohammad Character to act otherwise.

WHY NOT?

Because for the people who made up the Mohammad Character - They were writing a book for political reasons. They based it on Xian-Jewish mysticism*. This is why the Qur'an has some Xian-Jewish "spiritual" stuff in there but it also has a hell of a lot of unenlightened bullshit.

So, of course, polygamy and marriage to a child is fine, so long as that doesn't interfere with the political forces using this madeup book to rule over people. Only a truely enlightened single philosopher would have thought about the future ramifications of putting such bullshit in a religous book.

Different books for different purposes,

Making any sense?
Michael


*You know there were hundreds of Churches all over the Arabian peninsula. Many had their own thing going on and were a mix of Judaism and Xianity. Who ever made up the Qur'an used this on the back drop of a cult of personality for a political pseudo-religious text. Humans are hardwired to accept a cult of personality. Just look at North Koreans or Scientologists or SAM. They need a Dear Leader and they will believe in the divinity of Kim Jung Il, Ron Hubbard or Mohammad until the day they die. It's genetic.

NOTE:
Athenian Greeks wrote invitation letters to the fathers of young teenage boys to bring them over for a good butt f*cking. These letters said things about how beautiful this boy's body was and how they wanted to bring him over to show off his well oiled boy-body to all these other dirty old men. Greeks from this same period created beautiful sculptures, wrote poetry, founded cities in the deserts. They also prevented their wives from leaving the confines of their homes. Gotta make sure you have PURE ATHENIAN blooded Citizenry! Don't want some dirty Thespian blood getting in there!

So, you have to remember that these are different times and different cultures. AND AGAIN, the Mohammad Character is based on the life of an average nomadic tribal person, do not expect him to act any different than a tribal person from Africa or ancient Germany. ONLY a truely educated philosopher would care enough to carefully write a treatise, it obvious that a political religous book used to rule over newly conquered land is NOT written by a caring philosopher but by a Dictator (or at least strictly vetted by one).

DO WE NOW AGREE?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

You're kidding me. You think a 90 year old uncle pimping his 11 year old preteen niece/wife to "angels" had a virgin birth and you're passing judgment on Mohammed? You think the kid she supposedly had and who disappeared till he was 35, is God and you're passing judgment on Mohammed? You have an incestuous preteen who was sleeping around while married to her aged uncle as the mother of God, so you better think before you speak. Especially when your churches and armies are filled with dicks in kiddy butts.

Only from your perspective, Mohammad use what ever he wished, and made up the rest, but it is still Mohammad as a pedophile with a 7 year old wife, condoned by his own word, that the Angle Gabriel told him Allah said, it was all right to pork a little girl, and then passing that down to the Muslims as a condoned practice.

Even today, Old Muslim Pedophile's are marrying Children, and then the hardon's rule, and the Child is raped.

You are the one that needs to think before you speak, when your Prophet is the Pimp and first pedophile of your Religion, a 7 year old little girl, and sell off permission to marry little girls, to dirty old men and justifying it with the Quran and Allah.

Now your story of the Birth of Christ, does not comport with the New Testament, written AD 45 and before c. AD 140, long before Mohammad had his hard on for, Aisha, the Quran dates from 610 AD, 470years late and wrong, and nothing but a justification for Mohammad's lusts.

Islam is a combination of Judaism, Gnostic, Zoroastrian, and the Christian religion's, Mohammad picked and chose the theology and genealogy from those religions to support his rise to power, and justify His life and acts.

Every story from the Quran is directly taken from Torah, New Testament, and Gnostic Testaments, nothing he claims is original to Islam, and he rewrote much of those acts and miracles with him now as the Central Figure, usurping the Place of Christ, as the Last Prophet, Jesus The Mahdi, is the one who will return, and judge the world, not some mythical Muslim child.

Yes Mohammad, 470 years behind the time, a plagiarized prophet, and he didn't even get the story, the Greatest Story of Salvation ever brought to Man, and he couldn't even get the story correct.

Yes tell me of the thing Mohammad did, and it is just him claiming to be the "One" in the story, stories of the Old Testament, or the New Testament, and in the mix the Gospels from the Gnostics.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

!
So, you have to remember that these are different times and different cultures. AND AGAIN, the Mohammad Character is based on the life of an average nomadic tribal person, do not expect him to act any different than a tribal person from Africa or ancient Germany. ONLY a truely educated philosopher would care enough to carefully write a treatise, it obvious that a political religous book used to rule over newly conquered land is NOT written by a caring philosopher but by a Dictator (or at least strictly vetted by one).

DO WE NOW AGREE?

One hell of a observation, you have just enlighten me, Mohammad a Dictator, outstanding insight.:worship::bravo:

I had already recognized that the Quran was not a philosophic piece of Literature, but that it was the justification for a dictatorial rule, that opens a whole new dimension on Mohammad and his actions.

 

[vincent]

Look Mohammed's religion can be criticized for any number of things, but applying modern customs and laws to ancient times is ridiculous! The same thing happens when people try to apply Mohammed's morals and mores to modern life.

Ignore customs ignore modern day laws, i am asking why does a prophet not know the difference between right & wrong, are you saying our ancestors had no concept of what is evil, what is good, what is right & what is wrong?

We have all been a child at some stage, we have been through the process of being vunerable & relying on adults to give us food & a home, as adults we all know how vunerable & innocent a child is having been through the same process ourselves.
If mohammed knows all this why does he still marry a vunerable 7year old girl?

Are not prophets supposed to be someone we look up to, worship, i fail to see how anyone can worship mohammed a man who had no concept of right & wrong, good & bad, & tells us its fine to have sex with children, i dont know if mohammed had any daughters, but if he did would he allow her to marry a dirty old man when she was 7.

 

[vincent]

DO WE NOW AGREE?

No we dont, how can one prophet jesus be a shining example to us all, & another one be a example of how we should not live our life, & mohammed with his constant wars with fellow muslims, a mountain of corpses 8 years of war behind him to get his point of view across, a man who slept with children,

Jesus did not need a war to get his point of view across, did not seek the comfort of a baby as his wife, mohammed was a warlord, plain & simple, a man who killed more people than any suicide bomber could do today, mohammed is buried under the corpses of dead muslim he killed or his followers killed, he is not a prophet, never was, he was a warlord & a paedophile.
Prophets do not kill people, or take advantage of the vunerable.

 

[Michael]

One hell of a observation, you have just enlighten me, Mohammad a Dictator, outstanding insight.:worship::bravo:

I had already recognized that the Quran was not a philosophic piece of Literature, but that it was the justification for a dictatorial rule, that opens a whole new dimension on Mohammad and his actions.

Actually, I was not thinking of Mohammad as a dictator, as Mohammad is probably a compost character - a creation of literature. Sure there may have been a man or men similar to Mohammad, did they ride magical fairy creatures - no.

So, I was thinking more of Uthman. He obviously put the scribes to work and then vetted the finished product, changed things to suit his agenda, and canonized it and destroyed any other copies. At this time it was more important to have a text for rule than to worry about things a philosopher would worry about - like polygamy and child wives. It's apparent that the scribes were writing something for the people of that time and place - which is why you need to know Syriac to understand the "Arabic" Qur'an.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Actually, I was not thinking of Mohammad as a dictator, as Mohammad is probably a compost character - a creation of literature. Sure there may have been a man or men similar to Mohammad, did they ride magical fairy creatures - no.

So, I was thinking more of Uthman. He obviously put the scribes to work and then vetted the finished product, changed things to suit his agenda, and canonized it and destroyed any other copies. At this time it was more important to have a text for rule than to worry about things a philosopher would worry about - like polygamy and child wives. It's apparent that the scribes were writing something for the people of that time and place - which is why you need to know Syriac to understand the "Arabic" Qur'an.

Well even if Mohammad is a composite caricature, the insight that the Quran was a way to enforce a Dictatorship, Dynasty is a revelation, and a very correct observation, Islam is a Political Theism.

I am New Testament Christian, and I recognize many of the stories about Mohammad/Who ever, as nothing but being plagiarized from the Old Testament, (Torah), the New Testament story of Jesus Christ, and the Temptations of Christ, and the Gnostic Testaments, with Zoroastrian thrown in for good measure.

 

[Michael]

vincent28uk,

Just think of Mohammad as Ghangus Khan (who was also a Prophet of God by the way). Do you think Ghangus Khan would have bothered writing about polygamy being wrong when he himself was raping women by the hundreds of thousands? No.

Obviously the Jesus Character was created within the Roman Empire, a civilized place where many people worshiped all manner of Gods. Xians often chose martyrdom rather than perform religious pagan acts.

Completely different scenarios results in completely different religious books representing completely different Prophets.

 

[vincent]

vincent28uk,


Obviously the Jesus Character was created within the Roman Empire, a civilized place where many people worshiped all manner of Gods. Xians often chose martyrdom rather than perform religious pagan acts.

Completely different scenarios results in completely different religious books representing completely different Prophets.

"Jesus Character" what is this walt disney, we are not creating characters like mickey mouse or donald duck, what character are you? are you real?

Who is charles darwin is he another made up character, it must be real fun in your house, no santa claus, no god, no tooth fairy.

Mohammed was real he was a warlord, who killed thousands, & after a hard day of killing he seeked the comfort of a small child.

 

[Michael]

what is this walt disney, we are not creating characters like mickey mouse or donald duck, what character are you? are you real?

Haaaa! Actually, the process of creating religions is probably very similar.

As for Mohammad, the archaeological record shows there's really little evidence to suggest he was real. Although, to be fair, yes, there was a Greek reference to a small fry war lord. probably a composit of a few people and some myth. You should also note Arab conquerors didn't think of themselves as "Muslims" that's a later invention as well. Which is why the Qur'an is more a political text.


As for Jesus, he's an archetype, which is why he's so much more a pleasant literary person in comparison.

 

[Michael]

Buffalo Roam,

Well, I imagine, whether Mohammad is a complete literary creation or not, that it should be possible for Islamic apologists to recreate a new Islam. One where Aisha was 18 and Mohammad was 25 and it was a monogamist relationship. Mohammad preached that there should never be a distinction made based on religous beleif or otherwise and that instead people should be judged and reckoned only by their deeds not beliefs - oh, and there should be a separation of religion from State institutions and Slaver was and is always wrong.

Some of the things in this paragraph have ALREADY been re-written as true, I'm sure others can be as well

 

[swarm]

There are a number of countries where a girl can be married in the 7-12 age range, including the US.

Reading the accounts, he followed the customs of the time and had the full consent of her and her father. Before she came to marry him, she had been betrothed to another man who broke off their wedding. She was his second wife, the first had died, and by all accounts she was his favorite and she was likewise apparently very fond of him. She was with him at his death, seems to have mourned the loss and did not remarry thereafter, something she could have easily done at her age and with her status at the time.

So even by our current standards this would not legally be either rape or pedophilia in the US. And I can't fault a couple a successful marriage even if I think his religious beliefs are loony-toons and I personally like them to stay on the vine a bit longer.

The US also refuses to sign, and is in violation of, the conventions against child warfare, just as a FYI.

 

[S.A.M.]

Only from your perspective,

Do you believe snakes can talk and virgins can give birth? Just to understand what your "perspective" means. What do you think of an 11 year old sleeping with a strange angel while married to a 90 year old?

 

[vincent]

Do you believe snakes can talk and virgins can give birth? Just to understand what your "perspective" means. What do you think of an 11 year old sleeping with a strange angel while married to a 90 year old?

The idea that joseph was 90 is quite pathetic, i imagine the life expectancy then would be about 35 to 50 for men, the church quotes 80 when he married mary, but they do this to protect her memory, the idea is to promote joseph as senile & old & unable to have sex with mary. hence the virgin birth.

but the reality is, there is no way in hell a man could live to 80 then, where lucky if we live to that age now, it defies logic & science that joseph lived beyound 60, so stop quoting 90 it just looks stupid.
Even in this day and age he would greatly struggle to live to 90.

Sam there is no logic in what you are saying, the age joseph died is not known, the true age he married mary is not known, only a church lie to protect mary.

The life expectancy in zimbabwe today is 34 for a woman & 37 for a man, poverty & lack of medical care & disease is the reason why, all these things happened in josephs day too, if you got sick you died.

 

[S.A.M.]

You're kidding right? What poverty? It was the Roman Empire.

According to some gospel Joseph was married at forty to his first wife, with whom he lived forty-nine years. After which he married Mary.

 

[vincent]

There are a number of countries where a girl can be married in the 7-12 age range, including the US.

Reading the accounts, he followed the customs of the time and had the full consent of her and her father. Before she came to marry him, she had been betrothed to another man who broke off their wedding. She was his second wife, the first had died, and by all accounts she was his favorite and she was likewise apparently very fond of him. She was with him at his death, seems to have mourned the loss and did not remarry thereafter, something she could have easily done at her age and with her status at the time.

So even by our current standards this would not legally be either rape or pedophilia in the US. And I can't fault a couple a successful marriage even if I think his religious beliefs are loony-toons and I personally like them to stay on the vine a bit longer.

The US also refuses to sign, and is in violation of, the conventions against child warfare, just as a FYI.

I know of no US states that allow a 7 year old to marry, maybe you can enlighten me, as to which ones?

It might have been ok for joe soap to marry kids then, but mohammed was a so called prophet, would a true prophet marry a child?
Would a true prophet kill hundreds or thousands of people?
by all accounts mohammed was a warlord who spent 8years on a killing & blood lust spree, to promote his views.

Quite why a prophet needs to kill so many people to get his point a view across, i cant quite fathom, a true prophet preaches peace, not murder.

The leaders of iran the various aytollahs are also seen in a spiritual light, it seems the more you kill in the middle east & the bigger warlord you are the more you are a prophet, the leader of the taliban also thought he was a prophet too, Mullah Omar removed a cloak said to belong to the Prophet Mohammed from its Kandahar shrine, This move was seen as conferring dynastic legitimacy on himself.

Good old mullah omar yet another warlord & yet another prophet wanabee with the blood of thousands on his hands.

Warlord=prophet in the middle east.

 

[S.A.M.]

Prophet in the west = crucified for sedition [ie an insurgent]

 

[vincent]

You're kidding right? What poverty? It was the Roman Empire.

According to some gospel Joseph was married at forty to his first wife, with whom he lived forty-nine years. After which he married Mary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/trail/..._conditions/victorian_urban_planning_01.shtml

A baby born in a large town with a population of more than 100,000 in the 1820s might expect to live to 35 - in the 1830s, life expectancy was down to a miserable 29.


well in the uk back in 1820 & 1830 the life expectancy was from 29 to 35, are you saying back in roman times the medical care was better then?

In history mankinds life expectancy has went up each century or each decade now, back in josephs day i really cant see anyone living beyound 55, & then they would have to be very rich & live in a bubble.

By all accounts joseph was a carpenter not a brain surgeon, so i dont think he was rich do you? he also had several children to feed on his carpenters salary.
As well as the stress of having so many children & putting food on the table, good old joseph would be lucky if he reached 50.