NDE's..Are they real?

[Jan Ardena]

Just came across this mans experience, what do you think?


Greetings! And thanks for the genuine appreciation. I am a Senior Homoeopathic - Physician having more than three decades of practice. Below my original message, I am now sending my personal NDE details for publication. You can also put my e-mail address on that. Let like-minded persons can come together & discuss this important matter which has wholly engaged the collective Indian Mind for thousands of years. With warm Greetings.

We in India with our hoary philosophical traditions of more than seven thousand years and experiences of thousands of saints & sages believe in the Holistic philosophy of Life.

No experiments conducted on "Average experience criteria" or objective studies of the brain can explain the function of consciousness. Each man's experience will be different like the fact that no two thumb impressions match.

NDE of an evolved soul will be Transcendal. It is like a Quantum Jump. While as experiences of many ordinary people may be ascribed to stresses or emotional factors. In the matter of consciousness, we are entering a Quantum field wherein Modern science has no guidelines.

I was also skeptical about Transcendal experiences until I had one NDE experience in 1969.After suffering an attack of acute Dysentery & loss of blood I was nearing the end.

Suddenly I left the body & from the ceiling could look down on my body. In that state I could instantly be aware of anything I thought about. I thought of my mother.

I could see her running helter skelter on a platform to catch a train.

Later when I luckily recovered I corroborated that in fact ,at that precise moment she was running on a platform hundreds of Kilometers away to catch a train to come to my place, on receipt of a telegram about my critical condition.

Any NDE which can be found true ,to objective reality is astonishing! How can mind travel through Space and Time? Mind is transcendal Reality. A quantum entity. Science has not still reached a stage of understanding it.

As Shakespeare put it "There are Truths undreamt of under the sky!"

Details.

The incident actually occurred in September 1969.However as NDE is a profound experience it is deeply etched in my memory. I can recollect even minute details of it instantaneously though ,more than three decades have passed.

At that time I was thirty seven, a robust young man. And was an Agnostic I was skeptical of religion or any thing that could not be called strictly scientific.

My family had just moved into a small town called Eluru in Andhrapradesh, India. Because of the unhygienic conditions there I had a serious bout of Dysentery. Avoiding self-treatment, I put myself under the care of my friend in General Hospital.

In spite of a vigorous course of Anti-Biotics the dysentery did not subside. I lost a heavy amount of blood. Added to that a serious fever developed. After a few days my condition deteriorated very rapidly. Pulse became very weak & barely palpable.

On the third day of the full moon at midnight, the physician was summoned ,as my condition rapidly deteriorated & I was collapsing. While he was checking my heart-beats suddenly I left the body. From the ceiling I was looking at my own body!

The visibility was very poor as if a thick cloud of smoke separated me from the rest of the surroundings. The severe pain that I was experiencing just before leaving the body had vanished. I was calm & composed.

Suddenly I realized I was dead! My God! I have brought my young kids & and family and have left them in a strange place without any protection financially or otherwise! Visibility was not clear. Everything was misty. But it was as though I could see without vision, hear without sound. I was in another Dimension of Existence. I could hear the laments of women below & the hushed conversation. One thought became prominent in me. How absurd Life is! In the morning the body would be cremated. Is this all to life. What a meaningless end to a chain of boundless wonders & potential opportunities. It is like bubble floating on a sea.

Then what is death? An entrance to another dimension? I was calmly & objectively thinking while my brain & body were lying below! & as though I was not the person affected by death. Evolution endows matter with higher & higher levels of consciousness & death seems to snatch it.

While brooding I became aware of a presence. In a speechless communication IT informed me that I could re-enter the body if I so desired. But no time should be lost. However at that critical moment I pleaded for an answer to the riddle of Life as that thought had fully engrossed me! There was a beautiful vision of stars roaring past me. At the centre of all that tumult was a glowing light. Each star appeared to be a minute centre of consciousness. It was merging into & emerging from the central consciousness as desired by that cosmic WILL which shone like a very huge sun!

The vision vanished & I noticed that the doctor was looking down at me with amazement. I smiled feebly and told him I was O.K.

In that out- of -body state I could fulfill all my desires as if I were Omnipotent, Omniscient! I thought of my mother & I could see her running hectically on a platform at a Railway station hundreds of mile away! When I entered the body, the virulent infection had vanished & I could recoup in a couple of days. My mother later confirmed that indeed she was frantically running around Vijayavada railway station enquiring about a train to Eluru after receiving the telegram about my critical condition. NDE is cannot be explained in normal objective terms. I underwent a positive personality change. All my arrogance vanished.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Tiassa]

Hagiography--Ignatius of Loyola

After suffering an attack of acute Dysentery & loss of blood I was nearing the end.

The story of Ignatius Loyola, as presented to me in a history class at Catholic school. It seems the saint came to God after his own NDE.

The Saint was just a swashbuckler, daresay a sinner of classic proportions. Having taken a cannonball blast that severely injured his legs, the Saint was removed to a hospital where he recovered, in a delusional state. His only company was the nuns, the only decoration a crucifix, and the only book in the room the Bible. In the fever of infection and bloodloss, he had a vision of God that changed his life. A more properly Catholic version of it goes:

Spanish nobility. Youngest of 12 children. Court page. Military education. Soldier. Wounded in the leg by a cannonball at the siege of Pampeluna on 20 May 1521, an injury that left him partially crippled for life. During his recuperation the only books he had access to were The Golden Legend (a collection of lives of the saints), and the Life of Christ by Ludolph the Carthusian. These books, and the time spent in contemplation, changed him.

On his recovery he took a vow of chastity, hung his sword before the altar of the Virgin of Montserrat, and donned a pilgrim's robes. Lived in a cave from 1522-23. Journeyed to Rome and the Holy Land where he worked to convert Muslims. Studied theology at Alcala and Paris, receiving his degree on 14 March 1534. His meditations, prayers, visions and insights led to forming the Constitutions of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) on 15 August 1534. He travelled Europe and the Holy Lands, then settled in Rome to direct the Jesuits. His health suffered in later years, and he was nearly blind at death.

The Jesuits today have over 500 universities and colleges, 30,000 members, and teach over 200,000 students each year.

One of the problems of NDE's is that we don't fully understand the brain. When the NDE is quantified as a brain process, perhaps visions such as Ignatius or such as the topic testimony will be of greater value, because we will understand if the process is actually in the brain and what is causing it. But just as Ignatius' vision stems from fever and weakness, so, too do the conditions of dysentery resulting in large bloodloss lend toward the possibility of illness inspiring hallucination.

That's the first thing that comes to mind, but an interesting testimonial nonetheless.

Besides, I love those statements like, All my arrogance vanished.

They're so expected, as well as arrogant. I love it when people advertise their humility

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Jan Ardena]

Re: Hagiography--Ignatius of Loyola

Originally posted by tiassa
One of the problems of NDE's is that we don't fully understand the brain. When the NDE is quantified as a brain process, perhaps visions such as Ignatius or such as the topic testimony will be of greater value, because we will understand if the process is actually in the brain and what is causing it.

He said he was separate from his body, so maybe brain activity played no part?

But just as Ignatius' vision stems from fever and weakness, so, too do the conditions of dysentery resulting in large bloodloss lend toward the possibility of illness inspiring hallucination.

He saw his mother running to catch the train, which was later confirmed by his mother. I don’t see how that could be an hallucination. Unless it was pure coincidence?

That's the first thing that comes to mind, but an interesting testimonial nonetheless.

Very interesting.
Personally, due to my own experiences and that of others who I know, there is no reason why I should not believe this fellows experience. My question is, if it is true, what effect would that have on modern day science and on the self-professed atheists?

Besides, I love those statements like, All my arrogance vanished.

They're so expected, as well as arrogant. I love it when people advertise their humility

Maybe he realised just how arrogant he really was, probably surprised him somewhat, but I know how easy it is to get on a high horse without knowing. Imagine if that was real, how would you view life? It must be a truly humbling experience.

Thanks for the reply.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Tiassa]

Various points

He said he was separate from his body, so maybe brain activity played no part?

Well, in order for the testimony to exist at all, it had to cross someone's brain cells somewhere at some time. How, if the brain was not involved, does such an event become ingrained in memory?

He saw his mother running to catch the train, which was later confirmed by his mother. I don’t see how that could be an hallucination. Unless it was pure coincidence?

Been there, done that. One of the first lessons, in fact, that I ever learned about the so-called OBE. Believe me, I've had quite focused dreams about people of my acquaintance. Unfortunately, the description included with the testimony is as vague as I'm used to. For instance, my mother lives 250 miles away. She would, in fact, just get in the car and drive if it was an emergency. I can quite easily picture her in a distressed state, were one of her children at death's door, and I can guarantee you that my vision of her flight north to save her boys would look somewhat like reality. You'll notice that we hear about his mother, and not about anyone else at the train station in Vijayavada. Believe me, one does not need to be dying to experience that particular sight. It's a psychological phenomenon that has nothing to do with what is actually taking place wherever.

Personally, due to my own experiences and that of others who I know, there is no reason why I should not believe this fellows experience. My question is, if it is true, what effect would that have on modern day science and on the self-professed atheists?

Well ... OBE/NDE does not indicate God, so I'm aware that there's a good chance that atheists might find this occasion to be true, and wish that someone had done the data recording of the phenomenon. Sadly, nobody ever seems to record the data. It's kind of like the Bermuda Triangle in that sense. On the one hand, why have so many people "taken pictures" and then "forgotten their camera", and the airline or cruise ship company is unable to locate it? To the other, one of the best debunkings I ever saw was a map that, by distribution of lost ships, claimed the Triangle didn't exist. Criteria differences, in that case, but as the public gets more and more aware of phenomena, people seem less and less willing to record the data in any useful manner. I was happy about the video out of Arizona, for instance, even though the military's "flare" explanation probably works, despite the fact that nobody can reproduce the spectrum captured on video camera. Now there is an interesting result of the data. But a testimonial like this is a dime a dozen. I've also thought I was dead when breaking a fever. And yes, sometimes it is amazing to watch heat leave a body that fast.

Maybe he realised just how arrogant he really was, probably surprised him somewhat, but I know how easy it is to get on a high horse without knowing. Imagine if that was real, how would you view life? It must be a truly humbling experience.

Well, this is a piece of snobbery of mine much akin to Christian philosophy--he who says he is without sin--and Zen (killing the Buddha), and Sufism (such conclusive and direct proclamation).

All my arrogance vanished? In reality, all, perhaps, but that iota of bullshit that compels him to remind us of that. And that's why I say such statements in testimonies are both arrogant and expected.

thanx,
Tiassa