Near death experiences

Do you think that Black Holes are involved in recycling of energy and matter?

  • No

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Perhaps????

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6
But, I wonder how recycling can take place if nothing ever comes out of a black hole? :?

Good question!


https://www.space.com/43151-how-par...ble up,the antimatter equivalent of electrons.


The gravitational pull of a black hole is so strong that nothing, not even light, can escape once it gets too close. However, there is one way to escape a black hole — but only if you're a subatomic particle.


As black holes gobble up the matter in their surroundings, they also spit out powerful jets of hot plasma containing electrons and positrons, the antimatter equivalent of electrons. Just before those lucky incoming particles reach the event horizon, or the point of no return, they begin to accelerate. Moving at close to the speed of light, these particles ricochet off the event horizon and get hurled outward along the black hole's axis of rotation.

relativistic jets, these enormous and powerful streams of particles emit light that we can see with telescopes. Although astronomers have observed the jets for decades, no one knows exactly how the escaping particles get all that energy. In a new study, researchers with Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL) in California shed new light on the process. [The Strangest Black Holes in the Universe]
 
Why do people who come back from a near death experience report an increase in all of their senses?
They report heightened sight, hearing, smell, and feelings of both pleasure and pain.
The first question I'd ask is: how common are those kinds of reports, among people who say they've had NDEs? Has that been studied, or is the evidence that lots of people report that just anecdotal, like a lot of the other NDE claims?

The second question, assuming that the reports are common enough, would be to ask whether anybody has actually measured heightened senses in NDE patients, under controlled conditions.

That wouldn't be as hard to study as you might think. For instance, how many NDE patients wore glasses before their NDE, and were found not to need them after their experience? That sort of thing could be studied rigorously, to collect some hard data rather than mere anecdotes. But has anybody bothered to do that work? If not, why not?

Those in the twenty some percent of people who report the out of body experience during a NDE
report even an ability to take in astounding amounts of information, much more so than while they were in the body.
More self-generated "reports". Ho hum. Where are the objective tests that show these people actually can, under controlled conditions, process astounding amounts of information? If there aren't any, why not?
 
Aw. Did you feel that your comment would offend or just had a change of heart?
No, I was following a wrong though process and discovered it after I had posted it.
I would never offend you wegs, you are much too nice a person, and I can find common ground on several subjects.
 
No, I was following a wrong though process and discovered it after I had posted it.
I would never offend you wegs, you are much too nice a person, and I can find common ground on several subjects.
Oh, no worries. I didn't mean to suggest you were offending me, per se. I thought maybe you second guessed a response, and then deleted it. I've done that but yes, we all share common ground, maybe more than we think.
 
Question

Does anyone think dead people have Near Life Experiences?

Would perhaps explain some ghost stories

Crazy alert Just kidding.gif

:)
 
This thread, by the way, is about near death experiences.
Did I steer this thread off-topic or did I respond to an off-topic post?

Post #176 shows how I was introduced to the conversation to begin with.

Science isn't meant to be a religion, Write4U.
Well, it is you who is treating me as an scientific apostate. Death to the scientific infidel. I am a hard atheist.
 
Did I steer this thread off-topic or did I respond to an off-topic post?

Post #176 shows how I was introduced to the conversation to begin with.


Well, it is you who is treating me as an scientific apostate. Death to the scientific infidel. I am a hard atheist.


Fascinating!!!!

You do an excellent job of not sounding like a "hard atheist"....(and from me that is a compliment)!
 
Fascinating!!!!

You do an excellent job of not sounding like a "hard atheist"....(and from me that is a compliment)!
That is because you raise some very good points of abstract perspectives, which I had not fully considered,..... and you have a most agreeable disposition......:cool:.

I see the difference between my perspective and a more spiritual perspective of creative forces in the concept of a "motivated sentience". Why would a motivated sentience create dinosaurs to rule over the earth for 500 million years, only to be utterly destroyed by a stray comet? And that was only one of the 5 extinction events. Were those trial runs for creating humans? What if another comet wipes out all humans?
Will God slap his forehead and say: "Damn, I didn't see that coming."....o_O

The concept that humans are a result of intentional creation is very difficult for me to accept. Moreover humans are obviously a flawed design, bent on destroying ourselves, if not by natural disasters and pandemics, by destroying our own environment, or waging the most terrible wars that can be imagined against each other. Humans, in spite of their extraordinary brains have acted like brainless army ants on many occasion. We call them war-crimes but we keep doing it and most wars are in the name of the benevolent Creator, riddle me that.....:confused:

OTOH, religion as a philosophy has many positive aspects and apparently does provide a measure of comfort to billions of people. Far from me to call that wrong or false....:rolleyes:

So, trying to adhere to Occam's Razor I visualize an absolute objective (non-motivated) universal pseudo-intelligent mathematical essence to spacetime geometry, which gives the appearance of sentience, but is purely stochastic in expression and in addition to all the wondrous things, also allows for all the terrible things without blame or guilt.
David Bohm called it "Wholeness and the Implicate Order".
 
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As to the OP poll
Do you think that Black Holes are involved in recycling of energy and matter?

In a toroid universe that would be the case. A continuous cycle of being eatne by a Black hole to be spewed out of a white whole .
Bryan_Brandenburg_Big_Bang_Big_Bagel_Theory_Howard_Boom.jpg


In mythology it was Cronus that ate his children to make sure they would not replace him. Rhea managed to save one son Zeus who later did become the Supreme God.
Zeus is the Olympian god of the sky and the thunder, the king of all other gods and men, and, consequently, the chief figure in Greek mythology. The son of Cronus and Rhea, he is probably most famous for his infidelity to his sister and wife, Hera.
Children: Aeacus, Angelos, Aphrodite, Apollo, ...
Siblings: Hestia, Hades, Hera, Poseidon, Dem...
Rules: Sky, Thunder, Lightning, Weather, Air, J...
Symbols: Thunderbolt, Eagle, Bull, Oak Tree, ...
170px-Rubens_saturn.jpg
 
That is because you raise some very good points of abstract perspectives, which I had not fully considered,..... and you have a most agreeable disposition......:cool:.

I see the difference between my perspective and a more spiritual perspective of creative forces in the concept of a "motivated sentience". Why would a motivated sentience create dinosaurs to rule over the earth for 500 million years, only to be utterly destroyed by a stray comet? And that was only one of the 5 extinction events. Were those trial runs for creating humans? What if another comet wipes out all humans?
Will God slap his forehead and say: "Damn, I didn't see that coming."....o_O

The concept that humans are a result of intentional creation is very difficult for me to accept. Moreover humans are obviously a flawed design, bent on destroying ourselves, if not by natural disasters and pandemics, by destroying our own environment, or waging the most terrible wars that can be imagined against each other. Humans, in spite of their extraordinary brains have acted like brainless army ants on many occasion. We call them war-crimes but we keep doing it and most wars are in the name of the benevolent Creator, riddle me that.....:confused:

OTOH, religion as a philosophy has many positive aspects and apparently does provide a measure of comfort to billions of people. Far from me to call that wrong or false....:rolleyes:

So, trying to adhere to Occam's Razor I visualize an absolute objective (non-motivated) universal pseudo-intelligent mathematical essence to spacetime geometry, which gives the appearance of sentience, but is purely stochastic in expression and in addition to all the wondrous things, also allows for all the terrible things without blame or guilt.
David Bohm called it "Wholeness and the Implicate Order".


Truly well said......
I have to admit that I went through some pretty serious theological / philosophical questions over these last five decades myself. I actually heard one Billy Graham Crusade around 1965 or 1966 and a couple of years later when I was taught Evolutionary Theory I became an Atheist because the case for their being no God sure sounded better than the plan that DR. Graham was elaborating on?????

Here is a quotation from a near death experiencer that means that YHWH may be kind of like an absolute monarch..... who has permitted Lucifer / Satan to act out a role somewhat reminiscent of Stanley Milgram Ph. D. and..... has gotten into other less than great research into genetics and cloning.


Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"
(Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com).
 
As to the OP poll
Do you think that Black Holes are involved in recycling of energy and matter?

In a toroid universe that would be the case. A continuous cycle of being eatne by a Black hole to be spewed out of a white whole .
Bryan_Brandenburg_Big_Bang_Big_Bagel_Theory_Howard_Boom.jpg


In mythology it was Cronus that ate his children to make sure they would not replace him. Rhea managed to save one son Zeus who later did become the Supreme God.
170px-Rubens_saturn.jpg


Wow again!!!!!!!!

I may be way, way, way, way off but I have my reasons to suspect a connection between "Azazel" referred to in Leviticus 16;10 in the RSV, as well as with chapter thirteen of The Book of Enoch and Zeus???!!!

The story of Leda and the Swan reminds me of what The Book of Enoch reveals about Azazel.
 
Truly well said......
I have to admit that I went through some pretty serious theological / philosophical questions over these last five decades myself. I actually heard one Billy Graham Crusade around 1965 or 1966 and a couple of years later when I was taught Evolutionary Theory I became an Atheist because the case for their being no God sure sounded better than the plan that DR. Graham was elaborating on?????
thumbs-up_light-skin-tone_1f44d-1f3fb_1f3fb.png

Here is a quotation from a near death experiencer that means that YHWH may be kind of like an absolute monarch..... who has permitted Lucifer / Satan to act out a role somewhat reminiscent of Stanley Milgram Ph. D. and..... has gotten into other less than great research into genetics and cloning.
That was very poetic metaphor.....
thumbs-up_light-skin-tone_1f44d-1f3fb_1f3fb.png
 
thumbs-up_light-skin-tone_1f44d-1f3fb_1f3fb.png

That was very poetic metaphor.....
thumbs-up_light-skin-tone_1f44d-1f3fb_1f3fb.png


This is a very strange idea....
but there is some evidence from NDE accounts that perhaps YHWH and Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan collaborated during The Holocaust to achieve one of the highest levels of relative "salvation" that they ever managed to work together to achieve???????

"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

Former Covering Cherub Halel who became Lucifer would of course look at the death of a human being, (or six million humans), very differently than we humans see our deaths.
 
but there is some evidence from NDE accounts that perhaps YHWH and Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan collaborated during The Holocaust to achieve one of the highest levels of relative "salvation" that they ever managed to work together to achieve???????
You keep associating Stanley Milgram's name with "Lucifer" and/or "Satan". Why is that? Stanley Milgram was a human being. Do you know who he was and what he did? You should not attach his name to your religious ideas about the devil.

You say you have "some evidence". What is it? Surely not Howard Storm's "account" of his NDE?
 

Indeed!

And some unusual evidence is out that that seems to imply that children have an amazing level of awareness of the events that they will likely face in life even before their conception.

If you are interested you might wish to google the names Helen Wambach Ph. D. or Dr. Ian Stevenson to name two who have done an interesting job of beginning to address this possibility.
 
You keep associating Stanley Milgram's name with "Lucifer" and/or "Satan". Why is that? Stanley Milgram was a human being. Do you know who he was and what he did? You should not attach his name to your religious ideas about the devil.

You say you have "some evidence". What is it? Surely not Howard Storm's "account" of his NDE?


The somewhat psychic or gifted Mary K. Baxter was somehow shown by Jesus that Lucifer Satan treats Satanists, (and other direct supposed servants of his), even worse in the negative afterlife realms than, for example, a backslidden Christian. What she reported being shown was not what I would have guessed...... but it indicates that Satan may be acting out a role that indicates that he has a similar contempt for his own most enthusiastic servants in this life.... that Stanley Milgram would tend to have for the "teacher subjects" who obeyed the actor / authority figure and hit the button to zap the "learner subject/ actor" a sufficient number of times to supposedly to physical harm or even kill the 'actor/ learner subject."

Her experiences remind me at least somewhat of a near death experience or even of Matthew chapter four.

My associating the name of Stanley Milgram Ph. D. with former Covering Cherub Halel / Lucifer fits with the possibility of the division and the fall of the kingdom of Satan.... that I have been researching and praying about since 1990. My belief is that Stanley Milgram Ph. D. rather likes my attempt to divide the kingdom of Satan and hasten its fall in this example of Applied Multiverse Theory that I believe we are now in.


"Jesus told me that there is a place in hell called the "fun center." Souls confined to the pits cannot be brought there. He also told me that though torments are different for different souls, all are burned with fire.

The fun center is shaped like a circus arena. Several people who are to be the entertainment are brought to the center ring of the fun center. These are people who knowingly served Satan on earth. They are the ones who, of their own free will, chose to follow Satan instead of God. Around the sides of the arena are the other souls, except those from the pits.

The ones in the center ring were leaders in the occult world before their death. They were mediums, soothsayers, sorcerers, mind readers, witches and warlocks --- all those who consciously made a choice to serve Satan.

When they were alive on earth, they deceived many and caused them to follow Satan and to sin. The ones who had been deceived are were caused to fall into sin came and tormented their deceivers. One by one they were allowed to torture them." (A Divine Revelation of Hell, The Horrors of Hell, by Mark K. Baxter, page 96).
......

..... As Jesus was speaking, Satan was sying to his subjects, "Ha-ha, this is your kingdom --- all the kingdom you will ever have. My kingdom covers all the earth and the world below." I heard him shout, "This is your life for eternity!" While cries of regret came from the burning cells.

Jesus said, "My salvation is free. Whoever will, let him come and be saved from this place of everlasting punishment. I will not cast him out. If you have been a witch or a warlock, even if you have a written agreement with the devil, My power will break it, and My shed blood will save you. I will take the evil curse off your life and redeem you from hell. Give me your heart that I may unchain you and set you free." (Mary K. Baxter, page 100 and 101).

I could be wrong... but I suspect that Satan actually admires Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and takes the following statement as something of an Absolute Truth.


Luke 7:47
"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little."

I think that Satan is looking forward to the time AFTER the destruction of the negative afterlife realms at this time..... that to some degree could fit with the long term purposes for Black Holes.... if indeed they are the great Recycling Machines of the universe / multiverse?
 
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