none are so blind...

A

acw

Registered Member
those skeptics who smirk at the topic of ufo's do a disservice to the investigative aspect of science. i propose a hypothetical scenario:
a person of average intellect and curiosity is walking on a public sidewalk..he observes a pool of blood and shell casings on the sidewalk..he becomes alarmed and notifies the police..the police arrive and our good citizen points out the blood and casings..the detective says, so what? there's blood and casings from rounds of ammunition..mr citizen says, someone was shot and bled here, investigate! detective: i don't see a body and noone in this area has reported any sounds of guns or people screaming for help.. citizen: but the blood, the casings, something happened! det: yes, but there is no proof of a crime..a person could accidentally cut himself and bleed.. someone dropped used casings in the same area..none of this is a crime..citizen: these aren't crimes, but shooting people is..isn't it obvious someone was shot and spilled a lot of blood? det: no, it isn't; blood was spilled, we don't know why, and casings were dropped, we don't know how..but there is no proof that anything bad happened here..citizen: leaving blood and casings on the sidewalk may not be a crime, but they suggest that a gun was used here and someone bled as a result..det: i don't see it that way..if someone gives us information about hearing a gun go off, or reports a missing person, we will have a reason to investigate, but there is no proof of anything that would require an investigation about blood and casings on the sidewalk.. * * *

such is the mentality of the skeptics.. they deny what they see because they don't want to admit that serious investigations are warranted..skeptics repeatedly claim: show us the proof, and we will take ufos seriously..in no other field of science do investigators ask for proof..they ask for evidence..in ufo sightings, witnesses, or ufo advocates, are told to offer proof of what they say..this violates the principles of scientific inquiry..first prove what you say, then we'll look into it.. unbelievable!!

i am not a scientist, but somehow i feel that galileo and copernicus had the same reception when they announced their findings: laughter, disbelief, derision..science has always been held up as an exemplary field because it is objective, impartial and cares only about truth and putting it into the hands of the public..now, i wonder..has science become complacent and self-assured so that only "safe" topics are pursued? has curiosity become suppressed under the danger of being laughed at and viewed as a "nut", for associating with "fringe" interests?

i don't know if aliens have visited earth, maybe i never will--but i would like to grow old watching science look at ufos as seriously as they explore the universe, the oceans, ancient civilizations, and other interests.. drawings of aircraft are on the walls of cavemen, described in the bible, and recorded by many cultures in written records..yet, everybody laughs at the question, have aliens visited us?

for skeptics to be correct about no aliens ever visiting earth, every report or drawing of an unknown aircraft in history must be wrong, 100%..everything written about ufos since time began must be false..for ufo advocates to be right, they only have to be correct one time, one time out of all the drawings, sightings, experiences ever recorded..what are the odds that one side is correct..who do the odds favor?
i'm not siding with either side, but the odds tell me that at the very least, this subject warrants a serious attitude from science...
 
I couldn't agree more!! What's more, if half the people who report seeing a ufo, reported seeinng "A" kill "B", "A" could be found guilty on "EYE WITNESS" testimony alone. Pilots, Police, Doctors,... people who if they testified in court about ANYTHING ELSE would be considered, a reliable witness, an upstanding citizen. Throw a ufo in there, and suddenly we question what they "think" they saw. :rolleyes:

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I am where there is need, I am not where no need exists, I am a staff to lean on, a lamp to light the way, I am shelter from the storm and yet I am the storm that rages around you.
susan mcmanaway

[This message has been edited by courtjester (edited July 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by courtjester (edited July 06, 2000).]
 
Absolutely. The testimony of one eye witness is enough to send someone to prison for life or even get them the death penalty, but the testimony of 50 eyewitnesses is worth absolutely squat when it comes to a ufo. IMO, there's something wrong with that.
 
Absolutely. The testimony of one eye witness is enough to send someone to prison for life or even get them the death penalty, but the testimony of 50 eyewitnesses is worth absolutely squat when it comes to a ufo. IMO, there's something wrong with that.
 
exactly!!
I don't know how many people have told me that what I saw was a black ops, or something else that is 'resonable'. Or better yet they ask what drugs I was on, or the memory is faulty. ..... When the truth is, I saw what I said I saw, and it wasn't anything from earth.
Even people who have seen a ufo, would rather deny the truth of their own eyes, saying; I was tired, I don't know what I saw... Anything that will keep them from having to ADMIT to themselves that life from beyond is here now.
P&L

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I am where there is need, I am not where no need exists, I am a staff to lean on, a lamp to light the way, I am shelter from the storm and yet I am the storm that rages around you.
susan mcmanaway
 
Going back to the top of the thread, I think the biggest difference between the shell casings scenario and the UFO question is that the shell casings and the blood are physically verifiable and can be examined and re-examined under laboratory conditions. A report of a strange light in the sky, even with video footage, is extremely shaky evidence at best (quite literally, in the case of video footage).

If I call the police and tell them that I heard gunshots, the most they'll do is send a cruiser through the general area. The truth of the matter is that I heard a loud noise that may have sounded like a gunshot (unless I'm some kind of expert and can identify caliber from the sound). The sound of the shot is in the same category as the light in the sky, only potentialy more life-threatening.

On the other hand, if I call the police and tell them that shots have hit my house, a cruiser will come to my house quickly and the police will locate the slugs and take a full report, take the slugs back to the station and they will most likely try to match the rounds to a gun, especially if someone has been shot in the process. They will also search the immediate area for suspicious activity.

There is no UFO parallel for the second scenario, unfortunately. We don't have bullets hitting the house. We have rocks that may or may not have bounced off of the roof. If any bullets do actually hit the house, you can bet someone has been sent to gather up the slugs before the police arrive. Without that hard evidence, the original scenario of the shell casings is reduced to a couple of undefinable stains on a dirty sidewalk and obscure scuff marks where something may or may not have been dropped to the ground.

No detective would take the case.
 
What about the individuals who claim to have been abducted, been to Dr. and have found implants that no-one could explain??
What if I called the police, told them I had been abducted, held for an unspecified amount of time and relaeased? After medical exam, we find evidence that something did happen. The police would come and take statements, collect what evidence there was, and a CASE would be made.
Same thing as an abduction.
Someone is taken, something is done, evidence is found - everyone laughs. With the exception of the individual who has all this high strangeness happening to them.
????
:p

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I am where there is need, I am not where no need exists, I am a staff to lean on, a lamp to light the way, I am shelter from the storm and yet I am the storm that rages around you.
susan mcmanaway
 
Good point. I suppose the problem with the situation is a question of the perp.

If a person says they were kidnapped by a "bunch of guys in ski masks" and has the scars to show for his experience, a medical examination will show how the scars got there, what caused them, and even possibly remove physical bits from the wound. The situation is one that is directly linked to known phenomena and deals more in deduction than in speculation.

If a person says they were kidnapped by "little grey beings from outer space", well, we know that guys in ski masks exist. We have physically captured them and found out who they are. We don't have this advantage with extraterrestrials. In fact, the only thing we know for sure exists in an abduction case is currently unidentifiable pieces of material found in the bodies of traumatized people.

From the point of view of the police, the perp has to exist in order to commit the crime. Since extraterrestrials politically don't exist, it's not within any police jurisdiction to pursue charges against one. If the only thing the victim can say is that it was ET's, as far as the law is concerned the wounds were most likely self-inflicted or else the person has suffered severe emotional trauma and is not thinking clearly on the matter.

If the subject of whether or not extraterrestrials are dropping by and screwing with us is going to be answered, we have to stop waiting for the authorities to bring one to us. We have to get one and bring it to them in broad daylight. In fact, we'd better get a lot of them. :)
 
Hi ya O2,
Missed the point. It's not the idea of police investigation, but more the idea that an investigation is warranted. Not police involvement. The collected evidence has not been explained, and still the 'upstanding citizen' with evidence is considered 'unstable'.
peace

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I am where there is need, I am not where no need exists, I am a staff to lean on, a lamp to light the way, I am shelter from the storm and yet I am the storm that rages around you.
susan mcmanaway
 
I should have elaborated more, but I ran out of time and had to take care of other things. Let's try it this way:

There are countless things in the world that science and politics need to keep working on, cures for cancer and AIDS, starvation, racism, rising crime rates, run-away inflation, population issues, and many other issues that are all too real and verifiable. The ET question amounts to little more than a "monster under the bed" scenario. Until Junior actually drags a monster out from under the bed and shows it to his parents, the whole issue will be dismissed as trauma or over-active imaginations.

I favor an investigation. Whether or not people are really getting abducted by aliens, the fact remains that something is happening. It could be that they realy are getting abducted, or it could be that some mechanism in the brain is calling up the same defense mechanism for a certain kind of trauma. It would be great to know how that works, but for the time being the issue must be passed to psychologists and psychiatrists who can only draw conclusions based on what they know. Unfortunately, there aren't enough resources to allow for an investigation to the possibility of ET's. It must all be done by pioneers and individuals, who are invariably dismissed as crackpots for not focussing their energies on more tangible and solid topics.

We have to make the issue solid, tangible, and incapable of being classified to any other category of incident (booze, early childhood trauma, drugs, etc.).

Closer to the mark? :)

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited July 10, 2000).]
 
After having read and listened to the stupid statements of the UFO debunkers for over fifty years, I have come to the conclusion that the goverment(s) are paying these people to make these statements. Why else would an educated, respected scientist insist that a video of a UFO is but a hub cap on a string when there were people on the ground watching the UFO as the person was taking the video?

In the summer of 1949 I came out of a grocery store somewhere around 10:00 PM in Bremerton WA. and saw a bright light in the cloudless sky. It was a very large "cigar shaped" vehicle moving very fast. As it passed almost directly over head, there seemed to be an aura about it. It was well lighted, as if it had windows the full length, similar to our airliners. There was no way to tell how high in the air it was or how large it was. I later realized the aura was caused by the UFO moving through the atmosphere at such a high speed. I have since seen high speed Jet Fighters near the speed of sound with a similar aura.

This UFO appeared to be over the Olympic Mts.
on the coast when I first saw it.I walked, maybe twenty feet to get away from the glare of the store lights. When I looked up again it was almost directly over me. It was headed almost due East, passing over the center of the city of Seattle.

The next day, The local newapaper, The Bremerton Sun ran an article about the UFO stating that the police and fire departments had received hundreds of phone calls from concerned citizens. The article went on to state, the police and fire departments of the city of Seattle stopped answering their phones due to the UFO.

I have seen several lists of mass sightings but I have yet to see this one listed. I have written to MUFON and received no answer.

HA HA SHE CRIED, SHOOK HER WOODEN LEG AND DIED
 
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