Objective reality: How do we know it exists ?

[Enmos]

Reality and all the objects in it exists completely independent of the mind.
I call this objective reality.
No observer can perceive objective reality directly. Perception is necessarily colored by interpretation, expectation, etc.
We make up our own version of reality in our mind which is based on (part) of objective reality, let's refer to it as subjective reality.

Some people here have argued that it is impossible to know whether objective reality exists because of it's own premises. I disagree.
We know the senses aren't perfect. For instance, the eye can only sense a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.
We also know that some animals can perceive more of the spectrum than we can.
The same goes for all the other senses: smell, hearing, touch and taste.
So we know, as an objective fact, that the senses can only sense a specific portion of objective reality.

When our brain is fed this data it interprets it based on:
- memory of previous experiences;
- character, which is the product of in part genetic but mostly environmental circumstances in our childhood;
- knowledge/believes;
- immediate environmental demands.
Then value is assigned to anything that is perceived according to above circumstances.
And so we end up with our own version of reality; subjective reality.

This is my view and I am convinced of it's correctness, but feel free to add or criticize.

Discuss

 

[Pandaemoni]

We don't know that the world is objectively real. In fact, there's a real argument that our unisverse, its and our past, our memories and lives before this instant is all an illusion, and that that possibility is *more likely* than the theory that it's all real.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=cosmologists&st=nyt&oref=slogin

The problem is that it seems real and treating it like it is real is the best strategy that we have going for us.

 

[greenberg]

...
This is my view and I am convinced of it's correctness, but feel free to add or criticize.

Discuss

I have two questions:

1. What is the relevance of distinguishing between objective reality and subjective reality?

2. How can a person distinguish between objective reality and subjective reality; how does a person know which is which?

 

[Yorda]

So we know, as an objective fact, that the senses can only sense a specific portion of objective reality.

if we would see and experience everything, we would see nothing and experience nothing. reality is like light. it's just... light, but if you separate it, it becomes something/colors. nothing(ness) is objective.

 

[Enmos]

I have two questions:

1. What is the relevance of distinguishing between objective reality and subjective reality?

I don't know, but this question really isn't very relevant to the thread

2. How can a person distinguish between objective reality and subjective reality; how does a person know which is which?

A person can't. We cannot directly perceive objective reality.

 

[Enmos]

if we would see and experience everything, we would see nothing and experience nothing. reality is like light. it's just... light, but if you separate it, it becomes something/colors. nothing(ness) is objective.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

[spidergoat]

We can assume it exists, but we don't know for sure.

 

[Enmos]

We can assume it exists, but we don't know for sure.

What is the alternative ? Where do the senses get their input from ?

 

[shichimenshyo]

jesus

 

[Yorda]

What is the alternative ? Where do the senses get their input from ?

just like IN YOUR DREAMS: everything is inside the mind. everything that exists is thoughts, and we get our input from thoughts.

since the outside is inside our mind, there can't be a real inside either. nothing exists, that's why every possibility (everything) can exist.

 

[spidergoat]

What is the alternative ? Where do the senses get their input from ?

I agree, an alternative would be hard to imagine. Maybe we are in a matrix.

 

[Enmos]

just like IN YOUR DREAMS: everything is inside the mind. everything that exists is thoughts, and we get our input from thoughts.

since the outside is inside our mind, there can't be a real inside either. nothing exists, that's why every possibility (everything) can exist.

Oh right, I forgot..

 

[greenberg]

I don't know, but this question really isn't very relevant to the thread

A person can't. We cannot directly perceive objective reality.

Given the title of your thread:

"Objective reality: How do we know it exists ?"

I expect that questions like mine will be relevant.
Otherwise, what is the point in talking about "objective reality"?

 

[Enmos]

Given the title of your thread:

"Objective reality: How do we know it exists ?"

I expect that questions like mine will be relevant.
Otherwise, what is the point in talking about "objective reality"?

I'm sorry.
I took your first question as criticism of the thread rather than criticism of my view.

 

[Enmos]

I agree, an alternative would be hard to imagine. Maybe we are in a matrix.

I don't think anyone can come up with a viable alternative actually.. all views ultimately need an 'outside'.

 

[greenberg]

I don't think anyone can come up with a viable alternative actually.. all views ultimately need an 'outside'.

I refuse to settle. I demand to be creative!

Come on everybody, think of a view of the world that doesn't rest on the inside/outside dichotomy!

Eat some carrots for better vision, some banans for faster thought, and wash it down with some OJ to get those vitamins rocking!:yay:

 

[Enmos]

I refuse to settle. I demand to be creative!

Come on everybody, think of a view of the world that doesn't rest on the inside/outside dichotomy!

Eat some carrots for better vision, some banans for faster thought, and wash it down with some OJ to get those vitamins rocking!

OJ ? lol

Edit: oh right duh

 

[greenberg]

Orange juice.

Seriously.
We can usually think of the opposite of everything, right? We say the opposite of white is black, of up is down, of sea is land, and then there's apples and oranges.

So we should be able to think of a worldview that is some sort of opposition to the inside/outside dichotomy.

 

[Enmos]

Orange juice.

Seriously.
We can usually think of the opposite of everything, right? We say the opposite of white is black, of up is down, of sea is land, and then there's apples and oranges.

So we should be able to think of a worldview that is some sort of opposition to the inside/outside dichotomy.

But the question is, is that view a logical one.. take Yorda's view for example..

 

[greenberg]

But the question is, is that view a logical one.. take Yorda's view for example..

I might be logical. But the premises used would likely not be what we would normally consider popular or common observations of the world.


Yorda's views are often logical; but there are sometimes plays of words in Yorda's statements that seem to confuse things.