professional skeptics group proves UFOs real

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duendy

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'Professional Skeptics Group Proves UFOs Real-UFO Evidence'
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1396.htm
"The professional skeptics of te Meirs case have concocted all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed te evidence. But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied thqt it was not their job to attempt to duplicate evidence, although conducting temselves according to the scientific method would require it....It is now absolutely incumbant upon any and all of te skeptics who have offered money for proof of "paranormal" phenomenon, to offere it to Meier and his non-profit orgaization in Switzerland, FIGU.....Integrity demands that tey now live up to their word...."

ok skeptics.....lets all sit back and watch ya wiggle your way out of this mutha
 
Riiiiight, because one guy can't be arsed to fake some footage, Meiers claims become more valid? No, Meiers claims stand on his own evidence, and that 'evidence' is really flawed.

In various pieces of footage, his 'UFO's' are seen to swing like pendulums, and wobble, as if attached to string. In another, when Meier zooms, he somehow only zooms in on half of his 'UFO', leaving the area where the 'string' would be attached just out of sight. It's not like there was camera shake, or he had no time to frame his subject either, this was deliberate, as I guess he was worried the string would become visible at such high zoom!

How come Meier alone sees so many UFOs? Why don't his neighbours see them too? It's not as if Switzerland is so vast these things can go unnoticed!

Duendy, maybe if you'd actually seen some of Meiers crap, you wouldn't embarrass yourself like this.
 
IF it is all as simple as puppet strings and lampshades...how come they haven't been ble to replcate the same using the most cutting art technology?
 
duendy said:
'Professional Skeptics Group Proves UFOs Real-UFO Evidence'
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1396.htm
"The professional skeptics of te Meirs case have concocted all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed te evidence. But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied thqt it was not their job to attempt to duplicate evidence, although conducting temselves according to the scientific method would require it....It is now absolutely incumbant upon any and all of te skeptics who have offered money for proof of "paranormal" phenomenon, to offere it to Meier and his non-profit orgaization in Switzerland, FIGU.....Integrity demands that tey now live up to their word...."

ok skeptics.....lets all sit back and watch ya wiggle your way out of this mutha
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Communist Hamster said:
Yes, Unidentified Flying Objects exist. They are military aircraft, not aliens.
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no mate...that was last week (slaps communist hamster's face with cold water making his cheeks go apple red)...we are on about the article i forewarded? about skeptics who simply cannot replicate Meier's supposed UF forgeries....EVEn with te latest state of the art technology

what do you think about it? should they give him the money..?????
 
duendy said:
no mate...that was last week (slaps communist hamster's face with cold water making his cheeks go apple red)...we are on about the article i forewarded? about skeptics who simply cannot replicate Meier's supposed UF forgeries....EVEn with te latest state of the art technology

what do you think about it? should they give him the money..?????
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duendy said:
ok skeptics.....lets all sit back and watch ya wiggle your way out of this mutha
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, Billy Meier. There's a tough nut to crack. Lets examine some of this of his otherwise "inexplicable" work shall we?

Image 1 - The Classic Pleadiean Beam Ship. One of a series of images taken over the course of many years, most certainly some of Meier's best works. Observe what appears to be a stubby antenna sticking out of the top of the ship?

Closer Analysis - when viewed in negative with a sharp gain filter you clearly see the "antenna" is actually the thicker part of the fine thread holding the model up.

How about something more obvious? Always been one of my personal favourites - Billy Meier's Flying Wedding Cake - now, even if one is blind enough to not instantly appreciate the inane crudity of the model involved in the picture and the set up of the shot itself, one can clearly see the strings holding it aloft.

Pop along to http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo_et.htm, about half way down the page under the heading -

UFOs, fake.
For the following pictures it's most likely 100% certain they show FAKE UFOs.
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This, remember, from a site actually run by dyed-in-the-wool UFO believers.

This claptrap you sited in opening -

But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied thqt it was not their job to attempt to duplicate evidence, although conducting temselves according to the scientific method would require it....
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Actually, it's Sciences job to remain sceptical. When it comes to crude amateurs like Meier and his disciples out there, frankly, who can really blame people being sceptical? No ones ever had to concoct "all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed te evidence" when it comes to the subject of Billy Meier - y'just have to look at some of his photographs. Most don't even require image processing to see the weak arsed badness of them - not even by UFO Believers.
 
I just have to add my two cents on top of what hs already been said. it is impossible to perfectly copy anything, especially when there are so many ways it could have been done. if I took a video of my back yard, and it was dark, fuzzy, unstable, do you think you could copy my back yard?
 
The Billy Meier case is a good example of how desperately people want to believe. If you look at the photos with an open mind you will see that they are fakes. Some of them are just laughable, such as the flying wedding cake in previous post.

The grainy 8mm footage of saucer-like objects dangling on string is hardly impressive.

No "state of the art technology" is needed to recreate these photos.

http://www.iigwest.com/ufopix.html
 
my anonymous.....Ok, i loked at your small sample of Meier's photies.

ok. the one where you make a negative of it and claim there is an antenna coming from the centre?....is it a very fine whitish 'line' you are lookin at?.....well if you look closer you can also see these faint lines in other part of the negative, including over the trees to the right....and you aoso see one kind of to te slight left of 'your line' doing a 90degree angle to the left. in ote words you are lookin at the grain doo doo

same with that--i must say--rathe odd lookin 'vehicle' in Meier's back yard. you cliam you can see 'strings' holding it up?
well first, why the heck would one NEED strings to hold up a 'sculpture' --if that's what you are claiming?....as an artist i am familar with all different forms of scuplture from small to large, and have NEVER seen the need for strings to hold them up..............Also...if yo look closely at picture you again can ee that the'strings' are more so grain marks of te photograph. for example follw 'your idea' of a string coming from top of contraption and you'll see it FUSE with te roof pattern...ie., you are imagining it to be a strring rathr than that foor patter.....also check over te trees and you will also see errrr 'strins' over them. now...my anonymous. whatin mergotroyde is theeee strings doin over thereeeee??

couldn't open your last link for some unknown reason.

please you'll return to the article i forewarded and re-read. they aren't talkin about some 'picked' 'dodgy' photies yous lot have picked to quickly explain away. no. tat many tried wit all kinds of high grade techno to duplicate what he said he COULD duplicate......AND he got TWO arms too!!...so dont be goin all smug YET
 
d? The singular point is, these are photographs Billy Meier claims to be space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - even a casual perusal of which clearly indicates they are no such thing.

Anyone can download a copy of the original Meier images from the site, a site remember run by believers in the subject of UFO's, and analyse the image composition oneself at ones own leisure with even very rudimentary, freeware image processing software.

Granted you, personally, with your non PC internet set up may not be able to accomplish that - the rest of us however can. Other people have done so, myself included and it's patently obvious Billy Meier's photographs are those of model "space vehicles" shot with various degree's of success Meier himself rarely delineates between. The good, the bad, the crashingly awful - all, to Billy Meier's perspective, represent images of ships produced by races Billy Meier himself perceives singularly, which in itself is activity hardly without precedent within the subject of UFO's.

Pop over to Google and run an impartial search for the following terms - Richard Shaver and The Shaver Mysteries.

What you will read about concerns a rather famous pre Flying Saucer phenomena that hit America from the late 30's through to the birth of the modern UFO phenomena as it started in 1947 wherein which the gentleman in question, one Richard Shaver, had his "experiences" of a subterranean species known only as The Deros published regularly in the popular fiction magazine Astounding Stories under the auspices of a chap by the name of Ray Palmer...

Ray Palmer is a name anyone familiar with the history of the UFO phenomena as it stands today will be already well acquainted with - back the days of Kenneth Arnold and the term Flying Saucer first being termed, Ray Palmer's is a name that crops right in the very thick of things and stayed that way right through the 40's and 50's.

Much of what is the subject of UFO's in the sort of terms people of your own sorts of interests take originates from the work of this one interesting little chap all by himself. A phenomenal character in every sense of the word, genuinely worth reading up on...

Anyway, The Shaver Mysteries.

Richard Shaver was a quiet, perfectly harmless chap. Formally a welder by trade until, after having been exposured to rays produced by welding equipment, suddenly finding himself acutely "sensitive" to certain truths regarding this world few of the rest of us would barely deem credible - mankind, from what Shavers insights provided him with, was actually the slave of a race of technologically superior beings calling themselves The Deros. Hideous, troglodyte creatures in aspect, they lived underground and via means of their incredible technology had the power to manipulate and control world events from the safety of their fantastical underground bases.

Shavers initial insights were first published in the Magazine Astounding Stories in the late 1930's - ostensibly as a work of "fiction", but published as such only under the strongest advisement that such a term had to be applied only because the truths being reviled were so profound and genuinely shocking, certain individuals identities had to changed in order to protect them from sure repreprisals...

Thus began The Shaver Mysteries.

The truth of the matter of course is far, far more prosaic. The material Shaver himself actually submitted for publication wasn't actually written as a work of fiction at all - it was sent as a letter to the editor of the publication in question. Ray Palmer himself actually re-wrote the original letter as the beginnings of one of the most successful publishing phenomenas of the day in the form it was originally printed in.

Richard Shaver himself was actually a paranoid schizophrenic - a perfectly harmless sort, but not actually terribly able to delineate between what was going on in real life and what was happening inside his own mind.

The point, and there is actually several, is that, even though as patently ludicrous as sack of monkey's, and published as pure fiction to boot, the original Shaver Mystery subsequent to original publication was to prompt an incredible degree of response from otherwise perfectly ordinary citizens the length and breadth of the American US all expressing not only relief but an excitement to wish to share their personal experiences and insights concerning this underground dwelling species The Deros.

And my, there were rather a lot of them.

As series go these contributions became incorporated within the body of the original and as a publishing phenomena, The Shaver Mysteries as they were to become known, ran for years.

People in this day and age often express incredulity at the very notion that its possible for so many, many people to simply make things up as they go along regarding what we these days call UFO's - however, as was perfectly clear from the onset of this pre-1947 phenomena, people actually did make the whole thing up as they went along, and revelled in the activity.

Moreover, and the reason this in itself remains germane, the sorts of experiences these perfectly ordinary, normal, everyday sorts of people were to relay regarding their own, personal experiences of these Deros chaps, reflect perfectly the exact same claims people today make about their own personal experiences with ET's - including, actually, the presence of ET's themselves.

All occurring in print pre-Kenneth Arnold, all a matter of historical record.

These people told their tales of how they were abducted by these creatures and experimented upon, of how instruments were placed within their bodies. They personally witnessed these creatures great technological advancements and reviled their insights into how these beings planned to take over the world and as those that would submit these "encounters" would have their tales published, others would speculate upon the implications of what their testimonies were implying and publish their own speculations into that as well.

There, back in the day before the term Flying Saucer had ever been coined, perfectly ordinary US citizens were relaying their stories of how this subterranean species and others from out of space were here amongst us on our world, controlling Governments, producing weapons of mass destruction and herding the rest of us like cattle - in terms neither different or in anyway less original than those still used today.

The Deros may be long gone and forgotten, but as cultural phenomena their legacy still remains very much in evidence to this very day.

The sorts of phenomena being "experienced", the speculations such revelations produced - all that is associated with the belief in Extraterrestrials first had its expression before anyone even knew what a Flying Saucer was supposed to be - yet even back then, people knew with absolute conviction and certainty, that the craft these Extraterrestrials in league with this species known only as The Deros were disc like and flew by means unfathomable by mankind.

History is just what it is d, what happened. Read up on it, enjoy it for what it actually is, and move on.

One way or the other, if the things you like to entertain the notion of are actually real, they're hardly likely to require string to hold them up with... ;)
 
as yo well know Jacques Valee also relates very ancient accounts of abductions and UFOs, also Dr Mack is a great source for various abduction reports

Both those experienced researchers DIFFER from yo and co, in that they dont JUMP to CONCLUSIONS....!

They are open to not dismissing post 1947 accountsbeCAUSE of past experience. I.e, arguing that because of past events that that = all the phenomena is false. that approach is just plain short sighted. ANDit completely dismisses, puts down and pathologizes people who actually SHARE such profound experiences!
 
duendy said:
ANDit completely dismisses, puts down and pathologizes people who actually SHARE such profound experiences!
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d? The very point is that non of the events relayed throughout the course of The Shaver Mysteries ever happened at all - except that people claimed their experiences associated with the so called "events" of the saga to be profoundly true.

Each and everyone of these people, regular men and women no different from either you or I, all shared the same similar "experiences" as those portrayed throughout the subsequent UFO Phenomena to the present day. That process of commonality and shared experience is what made The Shaver Mysteries the compelling ongoing "mystery" it became.

Yes, the facts of the matter do rather dismiss, put down and pathologize the active protagonists of this pre-UFO publishing event - how else can one possibly view them? The events Richard Shaver relayed never actually happened and the "facts" concerning the mystery, where not supplied firsthand by the readers of the magazine itself, were all (everyone) written by hired writers, including the editor of the magazine itself Ray Palmer.

Not a single syllable of what these readers relayed regarding their own personal "experiences" over the course of many, many years ever actually happened, nor could they possibly have done so - there are no Deros, there never were, yet despite what one would assume to be sever impediments to the process the fact of the matter remained quite the contrary - the less actual evidence anyone could provide the more The Shaver Mysteries thrived and endured.

Moreover, the exact nature of the experiences these people both recognised as "fact" and shared in common with others mirrored exactly the course and events that over the decades since the onset of the UFO phenomena which would eclipse The Shaver Mysteries entirely follow the same path and ground - physical abduction, experimentation and violation, secret Government collaboration and consent, incredible technologies all "known" to be true because witness had said they had seen them - yet, other than the publication of the materials which made up The Shaver Mysteries themselves, not a single event relayed concerning the entire affair ever actually happened outside the imaginations of the people making it up as they went along.

So, what are you telling us here d? The Shaver Mysteries were published and continued to be so for years before the modern UFO Phenomena ever started - doubly so actually throughout the years subsequent. People now interested in Flying Saucers read within Shaver equally shared experience between their personal experience of extraterrestrials and those described concerning the Deros as being one and the same thing - the experiences shared and relayed are that similar how could they possibly be anything else but implicitly true?

The fact that these days, were you to raise the subject of Deros and be met with anything but polite puzzlement as to quite what the hell it was you were actually talking about remains symptomatic only of the times we live in - people however, rarely actually change.

Why should believers and those who have actually claim experience of extraterrestrials today be any less deluded than those who claimed exactly the same concerning an equally "alien" species, these Deros, that never actually existed at all? You can claim it impossible for so many people with shared common experiences to be delusional and capitalise your responces all you like d, The Shaver Mysteries demonstrate it not only possible but what actually happened.
 
what the ek are yus going on with with with your Shaver Mysteries??

yo are tryingto imply that te research of Vallee, Mack and others is totally false, and the people today who have experiences are lieing

you know...youuuuu skeptics are...what ya on??...or NOT on?
 
Ah... duendy, duendy, duendy... If all else fails, make like y'don't know what the other fellow's on about.

Timeless. One simply has to give props to The Classics... ;)

Of course you know why I'm bringing up the subject of The Shaver Mysteries, d. If the first full explanation of why I'm bringing up the subject of The Shaver Mysteries didn't adequately convey the answer, the second equally full explanation as to why I'm bringing up the subject of The Shaver Mysteries couldn't possibly have failed to have done the trick.

But, lets leave that aside for the moment and touch briefly instead on the subject of UFO research for a moment - Google Search Results for the following criteria and the time it takes to find it:

  • 1,120,000 for RICHARD SHAVER. (0.18 seconds)
  • 76,800 for THE SHAVER MYSTERIES. (0.18 seconds)
  • 110,000 for THE DEROS. (0.21 seconds)
  • Results 1 - 10 of about 122,000 for Amazing Stories+The Shaver Mysteries. (0.32 seconds)
  • Results 1 - 10 of about 17,300 for The Shaver Mysteries+UFO's. (0.18 seconds)

With 1,120,000 positive references to the name Richard Shaver alone and 17,300 definite references to The Shaver Mysteries & UFO's in specific, its virtually nigh on impossible to even casually peruse the subject of UFO's in general without running across either the gentleman himself or the phenomena that bears his name - so perfectly naturally I bring the gentleman and his legacy to the world in general to your attention, this is after all yet another discussion about UFO's.

So how could we possibly discuss that without considering the man who inadvertently precursed the invention of the UFO Phenomena as we know it today?

Of course, by rights we really should be discussing Ray Palmer - not only the actual author, publisher and publicist for Richard (ma friends call me Dick) Shaver, Ray Palmer was also the gentleman who secured the rights to and published Kenneth Arnold's own account of the incident which sparked off the entire business regarding Flying Saucers right at the very begining...

Perhaps we'll leave that as the aside it is for now. You've obviously got a fair bit of reading to do if you're planning on getting up to speed on the subject of UFO's in general.

You ask me:

yo are tryingto imply that te research of Vallee, Mack and others is totally false, and the people today who have experiences are lieing
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Research is never false duendy, only the conclusions one chooses to draw. I certainly didn't bring up the matter of either gentleman's research at any point and have cast not the slightest aspersion as to the integrity of either.

As to the latter - I'm implying nothing at all, I'm mearly pointing out the historical fact that actually, yes. Large numbers of perfectly ordinary, otherwise unrelated people have indeed, through absolutely no reason or motive of financial gain or, particularly even, fame, have elected voluntarily to stand up and go on record to relay their "experiences" of events which never actually happened.

Moreover, others in reading their accounts have indeed elected, purely through their own choice, to corroborate such "evidence" as "fact" and claimed the same thing happened to them.

A fairly typical example published in 1946 reads -

"Sirs:

I flew my last combat mission on May 26 [1945] when I was shot
up over Bassein and ditched my ship in Ramaree roads off
Chedubs Island. I was missing five days. I requested leave at
Kashmere (sic). I and Capt. (deleted by request) left Srinagar
and went to Rudok then through the Khese pass to the northern
foothills of the Karakoram. We found what we were looking for.
We knew what we were searching for.

For heaven's sake, drop the whole thing! You are playing with
dynamite. My companion and I fought our way out of a cave with
submachine guns. I have two 9" scars on my left arm that came
from wounds given me in the cave when I was 50 feet from a
moving object of any kind and in perfect silence. The muscles
were nearly ripped out. How? I don't know. My friend has a hole
the size of a dime in his right bicep. It was seared inside. How we
don't know. But we both believe we know more abou the Shaver
Mystery than any other pair.

You can imagine my fright when I picked up my first copy of
Amazing Stories and see you splashing words about the subject!"

There's no implication to it at all whatsoever d - it's all been published, documented and well commented on throughout the course of decades and resides in print within the original covers of Amazing Stories, Hidden Worlds and latterly reprinted in Fate - an enormous chunk of actual UFO history curiously absent from the mainstay of hardcore ET believer sites and publications...

Perish the thought anyone could impugn such open minded and ready-to-accept-anything people of anything so vulgar as wishing the past to remain well and truly forgotten - after all, that's the job of us sceptic's, right...? ;)
 
...so your saying that ALL thepeople Dr Mack researched about were secret Shaverists..? what?
 
Why duendy, that's a very astute question. What is a Shaverist, d? And when did I ever bring up or comment on the subject of John Mack...?

Oh, I remember now. I didn't. Turns out that was a rhetorical question after all. So what is a Shaverist supposed to be duendy, I've never in m'life heard of the term....
 
Mr Anonymous said:
Why duendy, that's a very astute question. What is a Shaverist, d? And when did I ever bring up or comment on the subject of John Mack...?

Oh, I remember now. I didn't. Turns out that was a rhetorical question after all. So what is a Shaverist supposed to be duendy, I've never in m'life heard of the term....
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think you have lost the plot a bit dude
 
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