Proof there is a God

Michael 345 said:
I would have thought god would be the

ULTIMATE logical impossibility

With that in my mind as a starting point

and by my logical calculation from that

point makes god his own worst enemy

Imagine him sitting there thinking

By all logic I should not exist WTF

He is arguing against himself

If he had any conscience he would

apologise to us and all the aliens out there

for the Cowpat mess he made of Creation

slink off to his Fortress of Infinity and

never be heard of or preached about again

NEVER

:)
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For all we know everyone else in the universe may be much better off than Earth humans.

<>
 
Michael 345 said:
I would have thought god would be the

ULTIMATE logical impossibility

With that in my mind as a starting point

and by my logical calculation from that

point makes god his own worst enemy

Imagine him sitting there thinking

By all logic I should not exist WTF

He is arguing against himself

If he had any conscience he would

apologise to us and all the aliens out there

for the Cowpat mess he made of Creation

slink off to his Fortress of Infinity and

never be heard of or preached about again

NEVER

:)
Click to expand...

Obviously, that is not perfect.
I was only commenting on this.

<>
 
Uramo "It is simply obvious even to the most foolish that our planet must have been designed by god for us."
Tusa "Yes! It is the perfect distance from the sun. 200 million miles."
Uramo "And the perfect size. 28,000 miles diameter."
Tusa "And the perfect gravity."
Uramo "And the perfect number of moons. Unlike that planet with only 1 that our astronomers are studying."
Tusa "The 1 with too much water?"
Uramo "Yes. There cannot be much life there with so much water & too much oxygen."
Tusa "How about that awful tilt?"
Uramo "And it rotates too slowly."
Tusa "I hope no one crashes there."
Uramo "God forbid!"

<>
 
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why would a god make a place like this universe and where life is like this? it's a rhetorical question of course. this place is disturbing. the best excuse i can muster is that this is all a mistake like scrambled and misplaced information.

 
birch said:
why would a god make a place like this universe and where life is like this? it's a rhetorical question of course. this place is disturbing. the best excuse i can muster is that this is all a mistake like scrambled and misplaced information.

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Go on
 
birch said:
why would a god make a place like this universe and where life is like this? it's a rhetorical question of course. this place is disturbing. the best excuse i can muster is that this is all a mistake like scrambled and misplaced information.

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God created humans to have free will and choice. To develop free will and choice, you need to allow humans flexibility, beyond programming, so they can practice making choices. If you make the best choices for them, you will negate free will and choice. These two are mutually exclusive, until the choices free will makes, become optimized.

As an analogy, say you were a computer programmer who was developing AI; artificial intelligence. One day the AI comes to life and starts to make choices of its own. The AI will be inferred by choices it makes, which are not being part of it's original programming. Not all these free will choices will be good or expected. But that fact that unique choices are being made, beyond programing, tells you that the AI is working. If the AI gets into mischief, not everyone will be happy, except the creator. He/she will marvel at the free will that defines the successful AI, even thought these early choices are still far away from the ideal.

If God was to make all these choices for humans, there can be not free will or choice. The goal of free will and choice is that humans will eventually loop back and make the right choices, but without this being preprogrammed. It will based on conscious choices derived from data, experience and logic. God has plenty go time so he is patient. But in the mean time, free will humans tend to hurt each other since choices are not coordinating but often tend to be mutually exclusive.
 
wellwisher said:
As an analogy, say you were a computer programmer who was developing AI; artificial intelligence. One day the AI comes to life and starts to make choices of its own. The AI will be inferred by choices it makes, which are not being part of it's original programming. Not all these free will choices will be good or expected. But that fact that unique choices are being made, beyond programing, tells you that the AI is working. If the AI gets into mischief, not everyone will be happy, except the creator. He/she will marvel at the free will that defines the successful AI, even thought these early choices are still far away from the ideal.
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EXCEPT

Life became life from physics which allows (permits) chemical reactions to occur

which become self replicating

Problem is there is no free will built into this system

but as you indicated some unique choices are made which lay closer to the bad

(not condusive to life)

than the good

(condusive to life)

end of the scale

Which leads to the other problem

Physics and chemical reactions are not sentient

So evolution steps in (which also is not sentient) but does provide small advantages to those reactions are better suited to the surrounding environment

So sad Physics and chemical reactions can't share in the moment of what the end product turned out like

:)
 
wellwisher said:
God created humans to have free will and choice. To develop free will and choice, you need to allow humans flexibility, beyond programming, so they can practice making choices. If you make the best choices for them, you will negate free will and choice. These two are mutually exclusive, until the choices free will makes, become optimized.

As an analogy, say you were a computer programmer who was developing AI; artificial intelligence. One day the AI comes to life and starts to make choices of its own. The AI will be inferred by choices it makes, which are not being part of it's original programming. Not all these free will choices will be good or expected. But that fact that unique choices are being made, beyond programing, tells you that the AI is working. If the AI gets into mischief, not everyone will be happy, except the creator. He/she will marvel at the free will that defines the successful AI, even thought these early choices are still far away from the ideal.

If God was to make all these choices for humans, there can be not free will or choice. The goal of free will and choice is that humans will eventually loop back and make the right choices, but without this being preprogrammed. It will based on conscious choices derived from data, experience and logic. God has plenty go time so he is patient. But in the mean time, free will humans tend to hurt each other since choices are not coordinating but often tend to be mutually exclusive.
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that has nothing to do with the root problem which is predation from the getgo. it didn't just start with people. this place is hideous. plain and simple. we know it but we have to deal with it. some like it and they are evil beings and unfortunately there are plenty of them. evil's henchmen on earth.

if there is truly a god of this universe, it is very, very evil. i've faced evil and experienced it in this life and have been able to study the types of people who are like that and it's not just survival or what conventional wisdom assumes to placate the public. there is something that is just root evil that exists with no other purpose/reason/justification than to enjoy being evil. i know that this place is evil and evil people has much power here, no matter what their station is in life. i daresay, they are the ones who are closer to a primordial consciousness or what is running the show than good people. this place uses good people or allows for benefit but they aren't really in power. unless, good people recognize what is going on and disempower or neutralize it. some people don't consider the underbelly or underworld as being the seed of power but it is. the more base or root and how that operates is more indicative of the truth of a foundation. the cure is taking control of what is in control.
 
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DaveC426913 said:
He made it for me. My life is great.

Perhaps your purpose in life is to simply be the backdrop, the milieu, the cautionary tale, for my life.
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there are problems with this logic. first, i have consciousness and may not agree with a forced purpose. if someone is supposed to be in some role or fit the role, then they should be in agreement with that role naturally. no one wants to be in a role where they are in pain/suffering or there life is NOT good.

it doesn't matter if it were the case because it's still unethical and that is why people question existence here.
 
birch said:
there are problems with this logic. first, i have consciousness and may not agree with a forced purpose. if someone is supposed to be in some role or fit the role, then they should be in agreement with that role naturally. no one wants to be in a role where they are in pain/suffering or there life is NOT good.

it doesn't matter if it were the case because it's still unethical and that is why people question existence here.
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But if the purpose of all the unhappy people are merely background of my life, then it doesn't matter whether they agree.

And it's only unethical if those people are conscious like me. What if they're not?
What if you're only here to ask this question to cause me to examine my privilege to be God's favorite?
 
DaveC426913 said:
But if the purpose of all the unhappy people are merely background of my life, then it doesn't matter whether they agree.

And it's only unethical if those people are conscious like me. What if they're not?
What if you're only here to ask this question to cause me to examine my privilege to be God's favorite?
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none of that is the point because the argument is that a god can obviously be judged and a ethical god would not create such a system if it was omniscient and omnipotent.

by raising the obvious question is alluding to the answer that either a god doesn't exist or it's unethical or this place/existence is unknown to it or not in it's consciousness.

either way, this place definitely favors more evil than good.
 
birch said:
none of that is the point because the argument is that a god can obviously be judged and a ethical god would not create such a system if it was omniscient and omnipotent.
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I disagree. If God's purpose was to create a world for me to be happy in, then he's done a good job.
He's set it up well, with lots of miserable dejected people to serve as contrast.


This is consistent with a God who gave humans free will and who feels that the purpose of a human's life is to make of it what one wishes.

Happy people will go forth with energy and spend their efforts building a happy world. Miserable people will see the world as miserable and take no action.
Each type experiences the world they expect.
 
DaveC426913 said:
I disagree. If God's purpose was to create a world for me to be happy in, then he's done a good job.
He's set it up well, with lots of miserable dejected people to serve as contrast.


This is consistent with a God who gave humans free will and who feels that the purpose of a human's life is to make of it what one wishes.

Happy people will go forth with energy and spend their efforts building a happy world. Miserable people will see the world as miserable and take no action.
Each type experiences the world they expect.
Click to expand...

heheh. go on and believe that bs if it makes you feel better. it's not like you should feel guilty for being happy, is that the issue?

but no, people aren't all miserable because they have a bad world view (people can be more miserable having a good world view because it makes them vulnerable) and people all can't make life what one 'wishes' either even if they try and work their whole life toward it. sometime there is no action that would work because it just can't be. it just doesn't work this mary poppin's way. some thing just can't be and most people's dearest wishes never come true and that's a fact.

the reality is we live in a universe where people have free will to fuk you over and it's much easier to do as well and the damage is often irreversible. ya know, like those bombings just recently among other free choice things people do to eachother which sure isn't all lollipops and rainbows. just because you are happy, don't take your happiness out on others because no one here cares to make you personally feel guilty about it, okay? you are not alone in your happiness so you needn't feel guilty. there are plenty of happy people just as there are plenty of unhappy people for their own reasons.
 
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