Prophecy-Future-Whats gonna happen?


How about when the rapture occurs? A mass disappearance of good-hearted people.

I'm not so sure good-heartedness is necessarily going to be the dominant quality in the individuals claimed during the rapture. A most intriguing passage is Luke 17:34-36, which describes the day the Son of man returns:

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

What do you make of that? Will we all be homosexual at the time of the rapture? Or will homosexuals be the only ones taken? At any rate, from what I can figure out there will be 288,000 homosexuals left in the world at the time of the rapture, of which 50% of them, or 144,000 will be taken; of the ones taken, 2/3 (96,000) will be men and 1/3 (48,000) will be women. We already have covered in another thread the fact that the ones which shall be accounted worthy to obtain the next world and the resurrection from the dead, will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Given the circumstances at the time, I guess that won't be a problem!

If my take on this is correct, it doesn't seem like we will have to worry about it for quite some time. 90% of the population is still wonderfully heterosexual.
If one reads Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...

The message here is to be diligent, vigilant and watchful because the day and hour of the end are unknown.

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited October 11, 1999).]
I may be late, but I just had to drop in.

I have a question for dumaurier. You mentioned on the first page of this thread what you thought would happen. Have you ever read the book of Revelation? If you have not, I suggest it. Humanity is heading toward those 8 points you made but not peace.

Before the end, there will be a false sense of peace when all of these things start to occurr, but I don't think even aside from biblical prophecy that this is possible.

I think it was said best, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Where is Humanity going in the future?
You have 2 choices Heaven or Hell. I prefer the former. Trust in Jesus because enternity is a long time to pay for stubborn pride.

Yours in Christ,
Plain_insane for the Lord!

John 14:6
Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except through me.

What the? It doesn't have anything to do with good-heartedness (whatever that is). Also, that interpretation about homosexuality has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It doesn't say that two men will be in bed together "getting it on" and one will be taken. Are you really that weird, or was that supposed to be a joke?

Wow, wait, I just couldn't leave that one alone. What exactly do you mean by "wonderfully heterosexual"? Are you implying that homosexuals aren't good hearted people?????? You're totally loopy, dude. Get a clue would you please?


See why I don't go to church, tiassa? I don't want to hear about the "evil homosexuals", and all of the other "head up our ass Christian" rhetoric that is so vehemently spewed on a regular basis. This searcher dude sounds like the same egofied, holier than thou type who doesn't get the message at all. You know, the same type that I have spent countless hours out here trying to counteract. Please don't listen to this bullshit, it's not Christianity. Hey searcher, did you know that premarital sex is just as much of a sin as homosexual sex? Did you know that lying to your mommy is just as much of a sin as homosexual sex? And so on, and so if you trying to say that homosexuals aren't good hearted because they sin, then I guess you would have to consider NO ONE good hearted, because guess what? WE'RE ALL SINNERS!!!!!!! DUH, WITH A CAPITAL D!
God loves you and so do I!

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited October 12, 1999).]
What is wrong? I am being sincere and as nice as possible when I say this. You seem to have quite a bit of rage built up. I will agree with you. We are all sinners. I sin quite regularly. Yet when we become a Christian, we are called to leave behind old things for we are "new creatures."

I know some homosexuals who are very nice, yet the fact that they think homosexuality is acceptable is wrong. They do deserve just as much respect as any other human, but I can neither support nor respect their decision.

Unfortunately, we also seem to disagree on the tone of a Christian. We are called to love everyone, and do everything possible to get them into the kingdom. I was under the impression that you attracted a lot more flies with honey than with venom. That, however, is just my humble opinion.

We are called to be brave and bold in this battle, but we are also called to be more loving, more caring, and kinder than anyone else on the face of this earth.

I hope some of this makes sense. I totally agree with your opinions, but is there not some better way in which to state them?

Yours in Christ,
Plain_insane for the Lord!

Jesus said in John 15:12:
Love each other as I have loved you. This is what I'm commanding you to do.
I understand what you're saying, and yes, we are supposed to at least try to recognize and implement God's word. It may be easier for you to understand my stance, anger, frustration, vocabulary if you had any idea of how much time I have had to spend and continue to spend trying to undo all of the damage that "holier than thou", judgmental, egotistical, "I'm better than you", "you're a sinner, and you're going to hell" Christians have done. Many times I think that organized religion has done more to turn people away from Jesus, than it has brought to Jesus. I know that from personal experience. I'm just saying, don't put yourself above anyone else, for you are no better. We are all wretched in the eyes of the Lord, none more, none less. Deal with it.

God loves you and so do I!
Maybe, I'm wrong, but never in the New Testament do I hear any of the apostles ever say we are wretched. My life is wretched, and in my own strength any thing I do wretched before the eyes of the Lord, but once we become Christians we are justified made pure in the Spirit of the Lamb. That does not mean we sin any less, and sorry that is Christian jargon. Are verdict is changed, we are found innocent because when God looks at us, He sees His Son or at least that is what I pray He sees. Yes I am more of a sinner than anyone on this board, but if we are still wretched to God once we are forgiven then why does He even let into heaven? I don't understand. Yes, the holier than thou attitude is wrong, and horrible, but you seem to be on the other extereme. I do not believe I am better than anyone on this earth; however, I do not in the least believe I am wretched in the eyes of the Lord. I have the Holy Spirit in me, and anyone who does is innocent, free from sin, a saint, and righteous. "None is righteous no not one." "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." and "The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (If you think that we are still wretched after we are saved, read Romans 3:27-31.) He makes us righteous. No more than anyone else, but righteous enough to realize the need to tell others about him, and the urgency of that message.

Yours in Christ,

[This message has been edited by plain_insane (edited October 12, 1999).]
Ok, I understand, and you're right about forgiveness and salvation, which is the only thing that sets us apart. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't saying that homos are not good-hearted, or that all Christians are, because that's not what I meant. What I mean by wretched is our propensity to sin, which as you have said still exists, whether you are saved or not. It's still a struggle, being tempted by the flesh. It's a much easier fight though, when you are aware of what you're dealing with and have the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Amen to that.

God loves you and so do I!
But God loves us all just the same, even boris :)
so that doesnt mean anyone is better than anyone else

Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!

Dude - I knew I could count on you for this evening's entertainment!

First of all, I never said homosexuals couldn't be good-hearted. I said good-heartedness doesn't seem to be the main criteria according to the scriptures I quoted above. And sorry, but I do prefer a world that is 90% heterosexual to the one that seems to be described in that passage. What's wrong with that?

Secondly, what else would two men be doing in one bed? And I also thought "grinding together" was an interesting choice of words. Hey, I didn't write the stuff - I just read it!

I really think you should try to pull yourself together on that "evil homosexual" stuff - you seem to be totally obsessed, dude! I'm well aware that the bible says all sin is equal in the eyes of God. You're the one who's blowing this thing way out of proportion to what I actually said, especially since I never even mentioned anything about homosexuality being a sin! I just said that the scriptures seem to hint at a very different social structure during the time of the rapture than the one we currently enjoy - my point being, in case you missed it (and you apparently did - no surprise there), that the rapture would seem to be a long way off.

By the way, take your Prozac, honey.
Wow! Quite a flurry of ... well, quite a flurry here in the last little bit.

Lori ... did you figure I was just going to show up here eventually? I must thank you for the effort to assert a personally proper aspect into the faith debates. For the record though, I read the "wonderfully homosexual" line in a different context. But that's as subjective as "What's the first thing you think of when you see the color red?" Also, on the record, the frustration you're relating is exactly the reason I left the Christian practice behind. (I'm quite sure we'll have HOURS of fun with that someday.)

Searcher ... you cracked me up with the "men in bed" bit. I haven't heard that funny an apocalypse since ... well, it's been a while.

P_I ... (w/necessary apologies to Lori) I have been debating much of late regarding the difference between an individual Christian and "Christianity" as the word has come to be known in the United States. Essentially, I have been driving the question: While I know that individual Christians may not be part of the looming spectre of "Christianity" which draws slings and arrows from a wary "pagan" community ... well, why aren't these individuals stopping the institutional degredaton of the potential of Christian faith? Now perhaps this has nothing to do with Lori and I hammering away at each other on the subject, but I do think Lori's response was appropriate in the following context: The tone and manner of the remark, as she read it, tweaked her sense of propriety, which led to her response. And though, as I noted, I read the phrase in question differently, I would offer you my own answer to "is there not some better way in which to state [one's opinions]?"

* Generally, yes. But sometimes you feel you have to get people's attention.

I would also like to note that your disapproval of homosexuality is shaky. While many people point to Leviticus to express God's disapproval of homosexuality, they ignore Lv. 21.16-ff, when God has much to say about disabilities. Actually, even if we restrict those words to apply only to the priesthood (an argument I've heard and can accept, because ...) I still find the reason interesting: "they shall not profane what I, the Lord, maketh holy."

Speaking of decisions, what happens when I or anyone else can no longer respect your decision to call yourself Christian? After all, if you haven't chosen to be Christian, you're really not--no matter what your parents or a confirmation certificate or anything else might say. So then what happens when the people around you can no longer respect your decision?

Actually, this little drama so caught me up that I have no coherent observations to offer on the future, as such.


"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)

[This message has been edited by tiassa (edited October 12, 1999).]

Thanks for the post. I understand a debate can get a little heated sometimes, so if I overreacted, I am sorry. I also have to sy that individual Christians do try. We get out and do everything we can, but news and media will not tell the good stories only the violence, scandalous, and crime stories that will bump their ratings.

As for my disapproval of homosexuality, it is totally firm.
Read Romans 6:14-18 and then
Read 1Corinthians 10:23-ff
It clearly states that a believers are not under the law of the OT, but also that not being under the law is not a license to sin. In the next passage it continues with this thought. Except this time, it not only says that we should not do things we know are sins, but we should not cause others to stumble. So if in your opinion, a handicapped person should not be a priest, if I was a handicapped person, I would stay out of the priesthood just to make the way more clear.

Finally, the Christian lifestyle is based on a relationship with God. It does not matter what the world thinks. We answer to a higher authority, so if you feel that you can no longer respect my decision, I just hope it is not because I am not showing Christ to the fullest in my life.

I have one final question for you though.

If you no longer respect the winds decision to blow, does it stop the wind from blowing on you?

Just a thought.

oh I almost forgot.
disapproval of homosexuality

Sodom and Gomorrah(destroyed for many things, one was homosexuality.)
Genesis 13

Another verse
1 Corinthians (I have forgotten the verse. I will look it up and post it later.)

It is not just stated in Leviticus, but that is where much of the law originates from. There are many passages like the one you pointed out. In defense of the passage in question, though, long ago, God made his home in the temple. The part of the priestly work that this refers to is the Holy of Holys. It was where God actually lived. If anything unclean or with any defect stepped into that room, it died instantly. The perfection of God kills it. That is the only explanation I have to offer.
In regards to the homosexuality topic, here's the way I sum it up....I would fuck a donkey if God told me to. I know that sounds freaky-weird, and of course that will never happen, but I'm telling you, I would. What does that do to your theory regarding "disabilities"? I also don't think that most homosexuals consider their preference a disability. People try to act like it's not TOTALLY OBVIOUS that the purpose of sex is procreation, hence the marriage (for parents). Have we all learned recently what parents are good for? Like any gift from God (and may I say what a wonderful one it is), it must not be abused or perverted. Ok, I could go on now to illustrate all of the ways that we have degraded the meaning and value of sex, and perverted the entire (rather elementary) biological purpose to fit our astronomically selfish needs, but lets see if you guys can't figure that out for yourselves. Any takers?

God loves you and so do I!
Lori about your monkey comment...

Are you afraid of God then? You would just to it without hesitating.. ?

So if a prophet (non religious one) told you to do the same thing.. you wouldn't do it right?

P_I ...

Romans, Corinthians, Genesis ... written by men. I understand the idea that the word of Christ is the word of God, but these do not reflect either God or Christ, but rather the authors' interpretations of God's will and Christ's philosophy.

Ah, the spirit of the wind. The wind has been here much longer than I have. Who am I to question its wisdom?


Now, of the Leviticus passage itself ....

From 1990-96 a group called the Oregon Citizens' Alliance attempted to pass "equal rights" laws that would have shattered free speech. The laws prohibited their respective governing bodies from recognizing homosexuality as anything but sin and detriment. The results of their poorly-written policies would have been numerous: no state employees (teachers, cops, office clerks, the Governor, state legislators, &c.) could be homosexual; the Universities could not admit homosexuals; any books not directly condemning homosexuality could be banned from public libraries; police would be obliged to NOT defend peacable demonstraters protesting the new laws .... Only one or two local ordinances ever passed; enthusiasm melted when the courts squashed Colorado Amendment 2, virtually the same law. However ... the OCA, being deeply "Christian" in its organization and purpose, cited Biblical "mandates" as their justification for these dumb ballot measures. Well, by that same logic, Oregon would then have to invoke Leviticus and tear down all of the wheelchair ramps and get rid of all handicap parking spaces. After all, the Lord says that the disabled profane what He makes holy. Never mind that, according to faith, God made these people the way they are. So, in other words, God doesn't like one batch of cookies because they don't look quite right, so he throws them out.

The Bible covers a lot of ground: approving of incest, opposing masturbation; setting the difference between murder and defense as the difference between day and night; brides' financial value based on whether their husbands made them bleed on the honeymoon night ....

Who gives humans the wisdom to select which Godly "mandates" (to use the OCA's questionable logic) are convenient?


"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
That reminds me of a sign outside of a local church. It read: Beware, Jesus is watching you! or something like that. WTF is that all about? How can people have such misconstrued ideas such as "...only a fool is not afraid of God." There's nothing to be afraid of. Do you really think that God's goal is to instill fear into people, or to banish those it doesn't like into hell? Maybe the answer to these questions will help you see why so many think of christians as naive. People like yourself give christianity, and religion in general, a bad name.
The books of the Old Testament revealed the knowledge of God and of mankind in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Jesus Christ.

The principal purpose of the old covenant was to prepare for the coming of Christ. The Leviticus passages being referred to above were mainly instructional in nature and spoke to the "sanctity" of the body which was needed for priesthood in the context of ritual laws prescribed for the priests of the tribe of Levi. The Book of Leviticus is almost entirely legislative. The laws contained in that book instructed the Israelites of that time on how to keep themselves in a state of legal purity or external sanctity as a "sign" of their intimate union with the Lord.

Physical "irregularities" or "defects" simply would not have been perceived or revered as symbols of "sacredness" or "holiness" by those looking up to the most sacred altar of offering at the time. However, individuals with irregularities were certainly not thrown away.

"... on account of his defect he may not draw near to offer up the food of his God. He may, however, partake of the food of his God: of what is most sacred as well as of what is sacred."