Questions for Stryderunknown and all other open-minded people about ghosts and...

G

Gravage

Registered Senior Member
...ectoplasma.
I watched any TV documentary called "On the edge of science:Ghosts" and an scientific researcher who explorers said that Florence Cook(the most famous medium of the century) truly after spitting out ectoplasm-which has materialized Katie King,and they say that Florence Cook wasn't a fraud.Also, Minnie Harrelson has been also materialized by the medium that spitted out the ectoplasm(which created Minnie in the first place)-they say this isn't a fraud since there were many witnesses in the room.
For Florence Cook:
http://www.prairieghosts.com/florence.html
please,read that article if you have time and tell me what you think...

Here's for Minnie Harrelson:
http://uk.geocities.com/tmjones28/harrison.htm

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/photographs/harrison/3.htm

Please read both articles and tell me what you think of it...
pleae read this,also:Also,William Crooks,Alfred Russel Wallace,Oliver Lodge and many other scientists have believed and investigated many mediums,and they say some mediums like florence Cook and Minni Harrelson can truly create ectoplasm-which than lead to the creation of ghost.
Also,some psychologists have created Fillip,an person without identity,name and etc...,and when medium supposedly created him he acted like the person and identity they gave him,now is that possible.
some say psychic energy creates ectoplasm,and connected with collective conscoiusness it creates a person.Collective conscoiusness operates on sub-atomic level,scientists say.They have also supposedly tested plant,water and the spit and they all "felt" by the influence of human thoughts(measured by the electrodes-much like you say damn water,and the water will show very bad crystals,but when you say something like "I love you,water",than water will create the most beautiful crystals ever.
I need you opinions(for open-minded people)!
My conclusion:There is no colective consciousness,we're only bioelectromagnetic beings/machines with emotions-that's why it might be possible to have an influence on other things...,but who knows?
Any opinions?
 
Also,I completely agree with Stryderunknown that there is no life after death,it's just question how to irrefutably prove it.
 
The photograph of Minnie Harrelson with "ectoplasm" coming from her mouth just looks like a lady chewing on a table cloth :D
 
What a lod of tosh. One of the pictures, allegedly taken 'in complete darkness' using an 'infra red plate' clearly has a shadow cast from the so called 'ectoplasm' against the fireplace. If it was dark, what caused the shadow?

And yes, the other image does indeed look like some lady with a cloth stuffed in her mouth, the folds are clearly visible.
 
Bit late for me to answer however Phlog's already pointed out that they look pretty fake, you just have to examine what period of time the pictures were taken and guess what rudimentary setups would have been available.

For instance it's possible to swallow something and regurgitate it later, notibly a trick that escapologists used for years to conceal keys or picklock tools. It wouldn't be too difficult to do the same with a very fine cloth like cotton or silk, which would of only been slimey due to it being housed in the persons throat/stomach.

I wouldn't read much into these particular cases, as there are more convincing (yet fake) ones out there.
 
The photograph of Minnie Harrelson with "ectoplasm" coming from her mouth just looks like a lady chewing on a table cloth
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Lol cause that's exactly what she's doing. It wouldn't be draping around her like cloth either if it was "ectoplasm", if it was it would probably be flowing over the side of her chair.
 
Well I don't know about ectoplasm. But the mediums of the turn and beginning of the century were largely disproven. Houdini helped to expose many of them. The seance was dragged all through the mud thanks to photography and an educated populace.

I believe the ectoplasm was always proven to be cheesecloth. A huge amount can be easily hidden. Especially in a darkened room. I also wouldn't look for proof from days gone by. If you really want to know if ghosts are real and don't need to prove it to anybody I suggest the following.

Go alone in the middle of the night to a graveyard. Sit and wait. Prepare to be there several hours. Relax. Focus on a point in front of you. Relax your vision. You'll have all the proof you need.

For those that insist that ghosts don't exist, please prove to the members that people dream. I don't believe people dream. You 'dreamers' are nuts. You 'dreamers' ate something that affected your memory when you slept. You 'dreamers' are hoaxers. Put a dream in my hand then I'll believe. Take a picture of this so called dream. Liars. You can't because dreams don't exist.

If you dream the proof is unnessessary. A skeptic of dreams has never dreamed. If you have seen a ghost proof is unnessessary. If you have seen a ufo, or bigfoot, or a swarm of dancing pencils you know what you saw. All this clamoring for proof crushes imaginations and instills fear on the newly awakened dreamer.
 
Stryderunknown said:
Bit late for me to answer however Phlog's already pointed out that they look pretty fake, you just have to examine what period of time the pictures were taken and guess what rudimentary setups would have been available.

For instance it's possible to swallow something and regurgitate it later, notibly a trick that escapologists used for years to conceal keys or picklock tools. It wouldn't be too difficult to do the same with a very fine cloth like cotton or silk, which would of only been slimey due to it being housed in the persons throat/stomach.

I wouldn't read much into these particular cases, as there are more convincing (yet fake) ones out there.
Click to expand...

Hey,have you watched "The sixth sense" movie,it's about the medium who thanks to the help of dead people,has solved the case-and it was said that this movie was based on TRUE EVENTS OF THIS MURDER AND THE MEDIUM WHO HELPED THEM-is this a proof that this medium-from "The sixth sense" movie,which is based on a true story-truly seen and talked to the dead people?
Any comments,please?
 
The problem with mentioning "The Sixth Sense" as a reference is the film was Fiction and you didn't include a reference to support what you suggest. In fact I couldn't find any reference of True events in regards to the film.

My main basis of what is the truth in regards to "Necromancy" is that the shaking tables and cold chills of old Victorian palour games was mearly because they didn't have television to waste their lives in front of.

If you apply a computer to be the body and it's essence of Consciousness to be that of it being turned on, you could suggest that when it's turned off or it's energy is depleted that it destroys it's understanding of consciousness.
(Technically you could mention that data is stored on the harddrive, but biologicals don't really work like a harddrive but more like RAM which requires being left "On" to "Cycle" data.)

So my suggestion here is that when a person dies, they stop "Cycling Data" and no longer have conscious thought since such thoughts require to follow a kind of biological circuit. So once the body is either disposed of or decays that circuit would no longer exist and therefore any form of netherworldly entity wouldn't have the formulation of composure (being a circuit) to maintain consciousness.

However saying this I believe it would be possible to talk to the dead, however the setup to doing this would be a little different. Rather than speaking to a spirit of the deceased, you would be able to speak to the Deceased when they were living at a different point in Time. Namely every instance of what you call the past is "dead".

In fact I look at a comparison of Greek Mythology where the River Styks is applied to being classed as a river of time.

"Where if you were to drink from the Styks and you would tell nothing but the truth" would kind of mirror drinking (viewing) from the waters of time which would see how your destiny panned out without deviation from what truly happened.

Of course the Underworld in this instance would actually be the past where people that are now dead (from your perspective) are still actually alive at that point in time.

However this is where my understanding deviates to Pardoxical bridges and Matrix mechanics as apposed to talking to a dead consciousness.
 
Gravage said:
Hey,have you watched "The sixth sense" movie ,... and it was said that this movie was based on TRUE EVENTS OF THIS MURDER AND THE MEDIUM WHO HELPED THEM ...Any comments,please?
Click to expand...

Who said that? Surely not the script writer and director, M Night Shyamalan, who said how many times he revised the story, and the film ended up nothing like his first draft. The interview is on the DVD extras. Have you seen the film?
 
So if "ectoplasm" was emited/ created whatever, surely somebody had it analyised? It still exists does it not? Formed by "Psychic energy" eh.. really. :rolleyes:
 
pleae read this,also:Also,William Crooks,Alfred Russel Wallace,Oliver Lodge and many other scientists have believed and investigated many mediums,and they say some mediums like florence Cook and Minni Harrelson can truly create ectoplasm-which than lead to the creation of ghost.
Click to expand...
Martin Gardner wrote an excellent article about William James' extensive examination of the famous medium Mrs. Piper, in which he pointed out that the problem with James' and other scientists' "scientific evaluation" of séances and other mystical phenomena, was simply that they were generally unacquainted with the basics of magical techniques by which ordinary magicians as well as fraudulent mediums obtain their effects. Scientists are used to objectively observing objective phenomena. The phenomena they are used to observing are not generally in the habit of deliberately deceiving them. This is why the two most famous debunkers of mysteries are Harry Houdini and James Randi, both professional magicians.

Gardner frequently caught out Mrs. Piper in obvious misleading and deception and recognised her cold reading techniques (easiest to do when it was going badly), and yet could not bring himself to calling her an outright fraud - which she, of course, undoubtedly was.

Also,some psychologists have created Fillip,an person without identity,name and etc...,and when medium supposedly created him he acted like the person and identity they gave him,now is that possible.
Click to expand...
Well, that is exactly how mediums create the personality of supposedly dead people they bring to a séance. By cold reading techniques (and other things like actually doing detective work in advance to find out about potential subjects) they figure out the basics of the person's character. So the fact that psychologists created an entirely fictional person and the medium apparently "brought it to life" is nothing more or less than proof of fraudulence of the medium!
 
Stryderunknown said:
The problem with mentioning "The Sixth Sense" as a reference is the film was Fiction and you didn't include a reference to support what you suggest. In fact I couldn't find any reference of True events in regards to the film.

My main basis of what is the truth in regards to "Necromancy" is that the shaking tables and cold chills of old Victorian palour games was mearly because they didn't have television to waste their lives in front of.

If you apply a computer to be the body and it's essence of Consciousness to be that of it being turned on, you could suggest that when it's turned off or it's energy is depleted that it destroys it's understanding of consciousness.
(Technically you could mention that data is stored on the harddrive, but biologicals don't really work like a harddrive but more like RAM which requires being left "On" to "Cycle" data.)

So my suggestion here is that when a person dies, they stop "Cycling Data" and no longer have conscious thought since such thoughts require to follow a kind of biological circuit. So once the body is either disposed of or decays that circuit would no longer exist and therefore any form of netherworldly entity wouldn't have the formulation of composure (being a circuit) to maintain consciousness.

However saying this I believe it would be possible to talk to the dead, however the setup to doing this would be a little different. Rather than speaking to a spirit of the deceased, you would be able to speak to the Deceased when they were living at a different point in Time. Namely every instance of what you call the past is "dead".

In fact I look at a comparison of Greek Mythology where the River Styks is applied to being classed as a river of time.

"Where if you were to drink from the Styks and you would tell nothing but the truth" would kind of mirror drinking (viewing) from the waters of time which would see how your destiny panned out without deviation from what truly happened.

Of course the Underworld in this instance would actually be the past where people that are now dead (from your perspective) are still actually alive at that point in time.

However this is where my understanding deviates to Pardoxical bridges and Matrix mechanics as apposed to talking to a dead consciousness.
Click to expand...

I actually mean on the movie "The sixth sense 2" is based on true events of this medium who solved a case,I don't mean on first part of the movie,I meant on the second part of the movie.
 
There's no such movie, Gravage, and as far as I'm aware the famous Sixth Sense movie does not in fact involve any mediums at all. In either part of the movie.
 
I don't know how accurate that sequel information is afterall doesn't the sound a film called "The Sixth Sense 2" seem a little fishy. If you identify how sequels are made and named it's totally dependent on their contents and in this particular instance I don't think a sequel could be on the drawing board.

Films that contain numbers for sequence are usually actionpacked, a kind of motion picture chewing gum thats easy on the eyes and doesn't take a Doctor with a PhD that belongs to Mensa to follow the plot.

In certain respects I would thing the Sixth Sense would be more likely to become a series as apposed to series of films.

Still it's pretty far from reality, however as I mentioned in another thread. Recently the film "Godsend" has come out on DVD and it has a website that is related to it www.godsendinstitute.org

To cut a story short, it was basically a Film prop online that mimicked being a facility that could take DNA from any deceased relatives or children to create a clone to "replace them". (This is pretty much the storyline of the film)
Apparently alot of people actually have rang their phone number attempting to get their children cloned online, only to find out it was all a prop for the film.

It makes you wonder how much of a "Trueman show" the world actually is with shop fronts and "Congratulations you've won a holiday" phonecalls that could all be staged from the propagation of Hollywood Genre specialists seeding their award winning genres.
 
That news was three years old, and Shyamalan has made two more films already. Its accuracy was somewhat suspect, since it described Unbreakable as a success! :p

Weeeeell, I see what you mean, but to me a medium is someone who sits in a curtain-covered room and pretends to produce specific dead relatives via various conventions such as a spirit medium, whereas Haley Joel Osment was just a kid who saw dead people. Gravage was implying that "the medium in the movie" (if that's the kid or not wasn't clear) was based on a real person, which HJO certainly wasn't.

I'm not sure Godsend was even released over here in the UK on cinemas.
 
slotty said:
So if "ectoplasm" was emited/ created whatever, surely somebody had it analyised? It still exists does it not? Formed by "Psychic energy" eh.. really. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No scientist has ever analyzed ectoplasm.I bet in my own life that ectoplasm is not anything than mere fraudness.
 
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