Religion or Cult?

[one_raven]

I have yet to see a clear, concise and functional distinction between cult and religion.

Where is that line?

The dictionary is certainly not sufficient to make the distinction, in my opinion, but perhaps it will give us a starting point:

religion
NOUN: 1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

ETYMOLOGY: Middle English religioun, from Old French religion, from Latin religi, religin-, perhaps from religre, to tie fast. See rely.

cult
NOUN: 1a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. b. The followers of such a religion or sect. 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. 5a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. b. The object of such devotion. 6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

ETYMOLOGY: Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate. See kwel-1 in Appendix I.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

So is it simply that if a religion has a bad reputation in the general public, then it's a cult? :bugeye:
If it is simply that is has a human leader then it seems the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and many Buddhist sects and some Muslim sects would qualify.

Where do you think the line is (or should be) drawn?

 

[S.A.M.]

I've always assumed a cult had a living leader. And was not necessarily restricted to religion.

 

[Carcano]

By that definition Christianity was a cult during the Roman period before it became the state religion.

And some might say it ceased to be true Christianity after it was adopted by the state.

 

[one_raven]

By that definition Christianity was a cult during the Roman period before it became the state religion.

As is Catholicism and LDS right now with the Pope and Prophet, respectively.
Frankly, most religions and political movements - regardless of intentions - have an element of cult of personality to them.

 

[James R]

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

This one looks about right to me.

I'd add that the leader is almost invariably the founder of the cult, and will usually be alive, or only recently dead.

 

[Un4g1v3n1]

Any group which asks you to believe in something based on faith or the writings in a book that cannot be corroborated by facts, should all be placed in the category of cult.

That would make the Pope the most public CULT leader on the planet! Wonder if the FBI is going to wait him out in front of the Vatican?

 

[one_raven]

This one looks about right to me.

I'd add that the leader is almost invariably the founder of the cult, and will usually be alive, or only recently dead.

So, what happens after the leader dies?
It becomes a religion?

Also, what does "unconventional" imply?

Let's say, for example, that I started a movement based on my own belief structure, and gathered some followers.
We did not live in an "unconventinal" manner at all.
We weren't kooky fanatics living on a cabbage only diet on a commune somewhere - nothing like that.
People just beleived in what I said and followed my teachings.

Would that be a cult?
Would it become a religion a hundred years or so after my death?

It seems to imply to me that the leader's charisma is what keeps the people together, as opposed to the beliefs. I could accept that.
What about, however, an example like LDS?
When the prophet dies or steps down, another takes his place.

How do you determine whether it is the beliefs or the Prophet that holds the Mormons together?

 

[one_raven]

Any group which asks you to believe in something based on faith or the writings in a book that cannot be corroborated by facts, should all be placed in the category of cult.

In that case it makes the word cult completely redundant, pointless and meaningless.
If there is no distinction, there is no such thing as a cult - as the definition specifies it as a type of religion.

 

[James R]

So, what happens after the leader dies?
It becomes a religion?

Maybe, or maybe it just dies out.

Look at Scientology. Lafayette is still within the living memory of cult members, and so it continues. Whether Scientology continues on long after L Ron's death remains to be seen. If it does, I guess it will be a religion.

Also, what does "unconventional" imply?

Well, I didn't write the definition. I think it suggests a chosen separation from mainstream society.

Let's say, for example, that I started a movement based on my own belief structure, and gathered some followers.
We did not live in an "unconventinal" manner at all.
We weren't kooky fanatics living on a cabbage only diet on a commune somewhere - nothing like that.
People just beleived in what I said and followed my teachings.

Would that be a cult?
Would it become a religion a hundred years or so after my death?

Maybe, and maybe.

It seems to imply to me that the leader's charisma is what keeps the people together, as opposed to the beliefs. I could accept that.

Yes. I think that's a major feature.

What about, however, an example like LDS?

I'd say it's a religion now, even if it started as a cult.

When the prophet dies or steps down, another takes his place.

The founder has special status. Compare Catholicism. The Pope is a representative of the faith, but isn't considered to be a direct incarnation of god or a special messenger. The Pope is elected by people. Cult leaders say they are appointed by God, or have some kind of divine right to their position.

How do you determine whether it is the beliefs or the Prophet that holds the Mormons together?

Ask them?

 

[one_raven]

The founder has special status. Compare Catholicism. The Pope is a representative of the faith, but isn't considered to be a direct incarnation of god or a special messenger. The Pope is elected by people. Cult leaders say they are appointed by God, or have some kind of divine right to their position.

But the LDS Prophet IS a special messenger of God and his will.
Furthermore, the catholics don't see the Pope as just the figurehead - he is very much the mouthpiece of God on earth.
God makes his will known through the Pope. He is a Prophet in his own right.

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't know anyone who sees the Pope as a Prophet.

 

[one_raven]

Ask them?

Very few, if any, cult members would call it cult.

 

[one_raven]

I don't know anyone who sees the Pope as a Prophet.

Really?
You should have known my Grandmother and every Italian and Irish Catholic I have ever known - family and otherwise.

 

[one_raven]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#IIIB

 

[James R]

Very few, if any, cult members would call it cult.

I didn't say ask them whether it is a cult.

 

[Simon Anders]

Cult is a semi-consensus judgment.
Many of today's established, non-cult religions were probably viewed as cults when they arose.

It has to do with the opinions of majorities not with inherent qualities in the religion itself.

I think the points made about living leaders are good ones. But this is a part of what I am saying above. The more recent a religion is, more likely it will be seen as extreme, weird, wrong.....

Religions with living leaders are recent (offshoots).

 

[one_raven]

I didn't say ask them whether it is a cult.

True, but do you really think any follower of a religion would say, or even realize, it was the charisma of the leader that they followed - as opposed to the truth the leader was speaking?
I doubt it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Really?
You should have known my Grandmother and every Italian and Irish Catholic I have ever known - family and otherwise.

That explains it, I don't know any religious Irish or Italian Catholics.

 

[lightgigantic]

like many words, "cult" has taken a different shade of connotation in recent years. Prior to the deluge of strange (and often bogus) religions that inundated the west during the 60's/70's, "cult" simply indicated a particular disciplinary following in a religious leader's footsteps. It was bereft of any negative connotations.

 

[one_raven]

like many words, "cult" has taken a different shade of connotation in recent years. Prior to the deluge of strange (and often bogus) religions that inundated the west during the 60's/70's, "cult" simply indicated a particular disciplinary following in a religious leader's footsteps. It was bereft of any negative connotations.

That certainly makes sense.
I wonder how true that is.
I only became aware of the word "cult" due to the crazies - I have no first-hand experience with the connotation priot to that.