Religious/Spiritual "Experiences"

[Thoreau]

In a recent conversation with a very devout fundamentalist Christian of whom I am related to, she brought up the age old claim of personal experience. "Jesus talks to me and until He talks to you, you just won't understand." Now, upon my inquiry of clarification, this individual stated that they mean "talks" in the literal sense - that God/Jesus literally speaks to them in their own minds (telepathy).

Now, I find this argument astounding in the aspect that it decrees an intellectual/emotional superiority over the person that has not had this "experience."

But furthermore, in questioning the believers claims, we must also analyze the believer themselves.

Because we do not have any evidence that supports the existence of a God or telepathy, the burden of proof lay on the believer and not on the unbeliever (see Russell's orbiting teapot). However, even though the burden lay not on us (the unbelievers), we can however analyze the validity of their claim. It is my observation that by using common logic we can declare one of two more likely options for those of that claim personal religious experience: A) They're lying, or B) They are crazy/dillusional.

So, what say ye?

 

[spidergoat]

I say that experiences of depersonalization could indeed be perceived as another personality. Personality is an illusion in the first place, but not knowing that, the spiritually inexperienced would think that the perception behind personality was another personality. It's like they are hanging on to a cliff by the tips of their fingers, the cliff being the old way of perception and thought. So, they are not crazy, and they are not lying, nor do their perceptions reflect reality.

 

[ULTRA]

I've been incarcerated in a number of Psyke wards in my time, and have seen numerous examples of people being "communicated with" through various mediums. This included people receiving messages in songs, thru TV, mentally and through any number of signs and omens.
It occurs to me that if any one diety was responsible, they could have save much time and misunderstanding by transmitting one clear message to them all. And why such messages should be so cryptic when no-one else is capable of intercepting them defys reason.
Surely it would be easier to transmit one clear message to one member of this "group", and have them explain it to the others. The whole thing is deficient of logic, and that they were also all in a Psyke ward with me explains all I think we need to know..

 

[praty]

Would your friend still hear Jesus if she was born and brought up in Pakistan? Thing is, evolution has driven human brain to adapt perfectly to the surroundings.

 

[Lori_7]

In a recent conversation with a very devout fundamentalist Christian of whom I am related to, she brought up the age old claim of personal experience. "Jesus talks to me and until He talks to you, you just won't understand." Now, upon my inquiry of clarification, this individual stated that they mean "talks" in the literal sense - that God/Jesus literally speaks to them in their own minds (telepathy).

Now, I find this argument astounding in the aspect that it decrees an intellectual/emotional superiority over the person that has not had this "experience."

But furthermore, in questioning the believers claims, we must also analyze the believer themselves.

Because we do not have any evidence that supports the existence of a God or telepathy, the burden of proof lay on the believer and not on the unbeliever (see Russell's orbiting teapot). However, even though the burden lay not on us (the unbelievers), we can however analyze the validity of their claim. It is my observation that by using common logic we can declare one of two more likely options for those of that claim personal religious experience: A) They're lying, or B) They are crazy/dillusional.

So, what say ye?

i say i've experienced the exact same thing myself and like the believer said, until you've experienced it yourself, your observation is entirely inept and meaningless.

you're looking at this all wrong. the burden of proof is NOT on the believer, it's on god, and the experience itself is the evidence. it's administered personally and received personally. it's an interaction that you have to experience to understand.

 

[Thoreau]

Would your friend still hear Jesus if she was born and brought up in Pakistan? Thing is, evolution has driven human brain to adapt perfectly to the surroundings.

Good point.