synesthesia and Spiritualists

[Michael]

A friend of mine is a practicing Spiritualist (and pretty damn good artist). To say she makes a bundle from Reiki and divining is an understatement – it’s bloody huge.

In her defense, I’d say, having talked with her quite a number of times I am fairly confident she may have a rare condition known as synesthesia, perhaps in combination with dyslexia (although the later may be as a result of the former). Regardless, we’ll say she’s a believing-practitioner.

What’s synesthesia? From Webster: It’s a concomitant sensation - especially : a subjective sensation or image of a sense (as of color) other than the one (as of sound) being stimulated. Like tasting the color purple or seeing a rainbow of colors when listening to music.

When I ran into her the other day I mentioned it was quite odd that with the hundreds of Spiritualists around the city (not to mention the world) that not a single one had any inclination that the Tsunami was going to hit or that so many people were about to die. I mean what’s the point in divining if that sort of incident isn’t going to be picked-up on? To which she replied that she did indeed know it was going to happen and even mentioned it to a few people. Knowing her well enough now, I think she truly believes that on the 25th she earnestly made this prediction. It goes part-and-parcel with being a real-life spiritualist – a selective memory of dream and reality and perhaps even a touch of madness - - all of which is a direct result of trying to interpret more than one sensation via one sensory organ. So I cut off the topic with a reminder that the next time she divines such an event, to please let me know beforehand as in this case I had Thai friends I’d have liked to of contacted in advance

Which brings me to the point.

What are the explanations that Spiritualists make for never being able to predict anything worth wild?

Why is it that after events like this tsunami or 9/11 people still rush straight back into these Spiritualist shops buying into all this bunk?

I just don’t get it?

The major religions I get, they quickly brush it off either as a test of God(s), the wrath or God(s) or nature and nothing to do with God(s). I assume one reason they are successful is that they have covered this base and have a sort of blanket that works well enough (or else they’d have been replaced by a more successful religion).

But Spiritualists! This IS their business! Yet they still have just as many customers today as they did yesterday? Maybe even more!

Even in a post last week someone basically called me a jack-arse stuck-up prig of an “old-school” scientist for ridiculing Spiritualists and the like. Funny really, as if there is a new school of thought that acquiesce to this line of reasoning.

no . . . I don’t think so . .

Obviously this person is still a believer.

Why?

 

[Ophiolite]

Michael, this may seem like a tongue in cheek reply, but I intend it seriously. Why? Because most people really aren't too bright, and even the bright ones are capable of great foolishness. It is a constant source of amazement to me that humanity has bumbled as far as it has. As long as multitudes are attracted to sales with 50% off, never enquiring if the items would be worth purchasing even at 90% off, then we shall have spiritualists and UFO addicts, and astrologers, and .......... Stupidity, it makes the world go round.

 

[duendy]

let me apporaoach this thisa way....

i am well aware of gullibility, and the NEEd for some people TO believe. there have been many debunking shows where i live. i almost think....WHY? digressing a bit. ie., why this rationalistic-like propaganda? considering WO owns mass media, such questions ar worth looking into

but continuuing, they have been really eye opening. how esily people CAN be duped, and made to believe....one can see all the materilistic sceptics, aithiests and scientists go "YE!!!"

but wait. in our cold mechanical world run on Western principles we are seeing mass extinction of species, mass impoverishment, masive deforestation, and global warming with its severe weathers all over the world. is something not right? is the pope catholic?

people assume--those inclined that--we have "ARRIVED"....white done doe it. is what the universe has been waitin for---"S C I E N C E"....but isn't it just another myth too when bowed down to and deified as it is. for its mode of operation pervades ALL our institutions. so much so that some pople who even CLAIM to be spiritualist or psychic will be diagnsed by materialistic psychiatric 'science'` as being 'mentally ill'

Uou mentioned UFOs btw, and seem to totally dismiss EVERY reported occurrance of them ever reported in the annals of historical records.

do you happen to know what they are? could you inform us?

 

[Michael]

Because most people really aren't too bright, and even the bright ones are capable of great foolishness.

True, in the sense that most people haven’t been taught to think logically and therefore make (what to some may seem plain obvious) mistakes.

ie:
my friend: you can not “prove” god doesn’t exist.
me: that’s right I can’t
my friend: so then God exists.
me: ???? . . . . what about leprechauns?
my friend: ????
me:

continued conversation . . . . . . . . . .

me: so that’s why I don’t believe in God
my friend: then what about psychics and ghosts?
me: I don’t believe that stuff either, BUT even if it were true, that wouldn’t mean God is also true.
my friend: OK whatever I’m done with conversation, maybe another time.

It must be more than stupidity, it’s as if our brains are wired to ALWAYS seek an explanation. Regardless of what the explanation is, we will only feel OK if we get one.

This reminds me of a story I read about a hypnotist that conditioned this guy to remove his shoes and place them on his desk when the hypnotist clapped. Afterward, when asked why he took off his shoes, the guy quickly responded – “Because my feet were hot”.

It’s like his brain NEEDED some kind of an explanation and once it had one – then it was fine – regardless of how crazy it is to take off ones shoes during lecture and put them on the desk.

Even in Communist China where children are taught in grade school that religion is brainwashing and superstition is just that - superstition. People still believe in all manner of illogical things, from numerology to astrology to your various religions. So obviously, you can’t educate it out of people and so I guess we’ll have to live with it?

but wait. in our cold mechanical world run on Western principles we are seeing mass extinction of species, mass impoverishment, masive deforestation, and global warming with its severe weathers all over the world. is something not right? is the pope catholic?

1) Why do you say “cold” world? (would you include Japan, Singapore, China, or Korea in this cold world? When was it ever a “warm” world?)

2) When and where would you say that people lived better than in today’s “Western Principal” governed societies?
- In communist China?
- Imperial Japan?
- Feudal Japan or China?
- Feudal India?
- Modern India?
- Ancient Arabia
- Modern Arabia?
- Ancient Australia?
- Ancient America?
- Africa?
- Ancient Greece?

I personally think unless you were part of the aristocracy, it’d have been a bitch living basically anywhere at anytime up until the last few decades in the West and Far East.

- To think that a Samurai could test his blade on your body because it was new and untested is a little bit of a worry wouldn’t you think?

- To think that people, a few still alive today, were sold as slaves in China and the ME is a bit of a worry.

- To think that catching a cold or flu cold result in your death is worrisome?

3) The geological record shows that when the original aboriginals moved into Australia there was a MASSIVE extinction of species and the same is true of New Zealand. So I think it’s a safe bet that man has always upset the ecology of any area he has moved into which has always resulted in mass extinction of other species – regardless of how technologically advanced he is.

 

[spidergoat]

Synesthesia can happen to anyone, I wasn't aware of it being a permanent condition.

That reiki stuff is ok, I had a (cute) neighbor do it on me, and it was nice, very relaxing. I'm not sure how it would differ from other kinds of touching, but I wasn't going to complain.

 

[Michael]

This new thread is exactly what I am talking about: Picture of the challenger of Tsumani earthquake!!!!

This is an evidence for God welling which keep the Islamic mosque

This mosque challenge the Tsunami earthquake although all buildings around it have been destroyed , it stands and face the disaster

look and comment....

It’s just crazy?!?!

 

[duendy]

True, in the sense that most people haven’t been taught to think logically and therefore make (what to some may seem plain obvious) mistakes.

D__ you know this stuff is sounding very religiousy, and i can claim i have a hint why. the fact that in our histroy 'LOGOS' has been deified. so now we can herer people actually imply the outing of prpeople--not 'logicists'--as though one werer not a member of a church or something, and further implying tha being 'logicAL' necessarily is superior and one can see deeper.
I am not ABTI logic. i am anto 'logic' when it deifies itself and tries to out all other forms of being, as you seem to

ie:
my friend: you can not “prove” god doesn’t exist.
me: that’s right I can’t
my friend: so then God exists.
me: ???? . . . . what about leprechauns?
my friend: ????
me:

D__hmmmm, well, that i supposed to say something in a logical way?
but there are for example an African tribe who DO claim to see earth spirits. so when you meet them you are going to 'logically' beat them up? how do you know your 'logic' isn't some spirit that's got you in its dictionary?

continued conversation . . . . . . . . . .

me: so that’s why I don’t believe in God
my friend: then what about psychics and ghosts?
me: I don’t believe that stuff either, BUT even if it were true, that wouldn’t mean God is also true.
my friend: OK whatever I’m done with conversation, maybe another time.

D__ again. see what you do. you right off ALL.......A L L cases EVER reported of people who say they have experienced seeing a 'ghost'. just like that! and you claim your closedmindedness. you closure regarding CURIOUSITY, and ADMITTANCE you do not KNOW as...'logic'. now that aint logical to me

It must be more than stupidity, it’s as if our brains are wired to ALWAYS seek an explanation. Regardless of what the explanation is, we will only feel OK if we get one.

D__well yeah. your explantion is sorted. it is 'all reported sights of ghosts are false'..if i'm wrong in this assumption let me know?

This reminds me of a story I read about a hypnotist that conditioned this guy to remove his shoes and place them on his desk when the hypnotist clapped. Afterward, when asked why he took off his shoes, the guy quickly responded – “Because my feet were hot”.

D__i dont get the connection

It’s like his brain NEEDED some kind of an explanation and once it had one – then it was fine – regardless of how crazy it is to take off ones shoes during lecture and put them on the desk.

D--.......well he was lookign for a reason.

Even in Communist China where children are taught in grade school that religion is brainwashing and superstition is just that - superstition. People still believe in all manner of illogical things, from numerology to astrology to your various religions. So obviously, you can’t educate it out of people and so I guess we’ll have to live with it?

D__ but COMMUNISM is also illogical no? and look Michael...you are trying to fit the world into your idea of 'logic'. there is logic in studying astrology, numerology too (btw i dont study them, but have read abut them)



1) Why do you say “cold” world? (would you include Japan, Singapore, China, or Korea in this cold world? When was it ever a “warm” world?)

D__ i use the term cold regarding its menchaistic cold 'logical' opressive worldview. what's Japan etc got to do with it..?

2) When and where would you say that people lived better than in today’s “Western Principal” governed societies?
- In communist China?
- Imperial Japan?
- Feudal Japan or China?
- Feudal India?
- Modern India?
- Ancient Arabia
- Modern Arabia?
- Ancient Australia?
- Ancient America?
- Africa?
- Ancient Greece?

D__ dont know haven't been there, wasn't there. and for WHO. for the white middle class...the poor brown people. who?
and all those places and epochs are also patriarchal. the patriarchy is known for its p[ower over worldview. though i imagine there would have been pockets one could live a relatively free unhinderd life. differernt to now in our very overcrowded world, where much wild-erness has almost gone

I personally think unless you were part of the aristocracy, it’d have been a bitch living basically anywhere at anytime up until the last few decades in the West and Far East.

D__ "personally"..yes, i can imagine you would with the fundamental views you hold to

- To think that a Samurai could test his blade on your body because it was new and untested is a little bit of a worry wouldn’t you think?

D__ right. so we are in Japan now are we?

- To think that people, a few still alive today, were sold as slaves in China and the ME is a bit of a worry.

D__slavery is particular to the patriarchal side of things.
dont understand your point however. key word is PATRIARCHY?

- To think that catching a cold or flu cold result in your death is worrisome?

O__do you die NOW when you get a cold? or do you go straight to the chemist?

3) The geological record shows that when the original aboriginals moved into Australia there was a MASSIVE extinction of species and the same is true of New Zealand. So I think it’s a safe bet that man has always upset the ecology of any area he has moved into which has always resulted in mass extinction of other species – regardless of how technologically advanced he is.

This is a common belief from people of your persuasion. it is , eg., blame the Indigenous peoples, then we can get on fukin with the planet and feel justified

see, Mammals - Fossil - Mammals - Lost Giants www.amonline.net.au/mammals/fossil/lost_giants.htm
"Politicians and special interest groups have misused and misrepresented interpretations of late Ice Age extinctions.
In Australia some have argued that.... we now 'know' Aborigines wiped out the megafuna....Others have used this 'fact' to attack the credibility of Aborigines as environmental custodians. Thus, it is especially important that scientists distinuish fact from hypothesis and that all sides of the debate are heard."

 

[Michael]

D__ you know this stuff is sounding very religiousy, and i can claim i have a hint why. the fact that in our histroy 'LOGOS' has been deified. so now we can herer people actually imply the outing of prpeople--not 'logicists'--as though one werer not a member of a church or something, and further implying tha being 'logicAL' necessarily is superior and one can see deeper.
I am not ABTI logic. i am anto 'logic' when it deifies itself and tries to out all other forms of being, as you seem to

I’m not sure what this is about. My point is many people do not think logically. For example, if I can not disprove God ergo God exists. That is illogical. And, funny enough I hear that sort of argument made on any number of claims. And that’s all I was trying to say.

D__hmmmm, well, that i supposed to say something in a logical way?
but there are for example an African tribe who DO claim to see earth spirits. so when you meet them you are going to 'logically' beat them up? how do you know your 'logic' isn't some spirit that's got you in its dictionary?

No I am not going to ridicule them for their belief. As a matter of fact I’d like to learn more about it as well as other aspect of their culture. That said; I will not believe they have seen spirits unless they can offer me some evidence that they have seen some spirits. Just as I would not believe you if you were to tell me you willed yourself to the Moon the other day and spent the afternoon walking around enjoying the gentle weightlessness. You may believe you did, but that doesn’t mean you did.

D__ again. see what you do. you right off ALL.......A L L cases EVER reported of people who say they have experienced seeing a 'ghost'. just like that! and you claim your closedmindedness. you closure regarding CURIOUSITY, and ADMITTANCE you do not KNOW as...'logic'. now that aint logical to me

I disbelieve all stories of people “seeing” ghosts/sprits and with just one piece of evidence I will change my view. But that hasn’t happened – has it.

There is no evidence that anyone has “seen” or “spoken to” or anything else with a ghost.

That isn’t to say that the “experience” of seeing a ghost isn’t real. I’m sure it most certainly is. But that’s very different than saying the ghost is real.

D__well yeah. your explantion is sorted. it is 'all reported sights of ghosts are false'..if i'm wrong in this assumption let me know?

I do not believe that “ghosts/spirits” exist.

People may have reported seeing ghosts and been quit honest when they did so. So I am not saying that “Ghost Seers” are “Liars”. Many may indeed have had an experience whereby they seen ghost in as far as they experienced a series of nerve impulse in their occipital lobe and interpreted these as Ghosts.

D__i dont get the connection

The connection with the hypnotist story is that the real answer is that the person was condiditoned to take off their shoes and place them on their desk. When the trigger came this is what they did. When asked why – they quickly said their feet was hot because their brain was searching for an explanation for just why they did it. Again, the real reason is because they were conditioned to take off their shoes. That isn’t to say that upon looking back that the person didn’t have a memory of their feet being hot.

In the same manner if a person sees a ghost, as with all sights of anything it is just a series of nerve impulse being interpreted by our brain as “sight”. So the “seeing” part is taking place in our minds. You may be looking at the PC but what you are seeing is in your mind. So when a person “sees” a ghost it is still in their mind where they see it. All I’m saying, is because there has never been any evidence to back it up, it’s quite sensible to assume that when a person sees a ghost it is ONLY in their mond and not in the real world. Which is different than saying that they didn’t see a ghost – I’m sure they did, but it was only an additional creation added by their mind for whatever reasons and did not exist outside of the persons mind.

Is it any wonder that many people “see” ghosts when in a trance or when in a panic or, in a few cases, may have a serious mental condition.

D--.......well he was lookign for a reason.

Outside of meditation or drug induced stupor most of the time that is exactly what our brain does day-in and day-out.

D__ but COMMUNISM is also illogical no? and look Michael...you are trying to fit the world into your idea of 'logic'. there is logic in studying astrology, numerology too (btw i dont study them, but have read abut them)

1) Communism, is it illogical? I don’t know. It doesn’t appear to work though. Which isn’t to say its illogical – just that it doesn’t work for us.

2) I do try to understand the world, as do most of us. I am not saying that I make the world as I do change my point of view continuouisly. But I do not believe in the supernatural because there is no evidence that is exists.

3) Astrology may have some logic. It may be that people born in the extremes of winter may have had different personalities than people born in the blush of spring or the heat of summar or the chill of autum. THAT makes sense.

Saying that you’re born in January and hence your a Capricorn or Aquarius and because the moon is in such in such quadrant this or that will happen to you – no that doesn’t make logical sense. Stars are just burning balls of nuclear fission – there is no logical reason why they should have any effect on your life outside of that of any star, excluding the sun.

BUT, why leave it at just astrology and numerology. It used to be that when you REALLY needed some VERY important spiritual/mystic advice you captured a man tied him to a sacred-stone and, while alive, cut open his belly to allow his entrails to fall out. The man would scream in immense pain and slowly the Mystic would read the future in the spasms of his entrails.

- How about that duendy?
- It was done for thousands of years so it MUST have some logic in it – right?
– does it sound good to you?
- Making any sense to you?
- think you’d like to have your future read in such a way?

D__ i use the term cold regarding its menchaistic cold 'logical' opressive worldview. what's Japan etc got to do with it..?

It’s a shame you feel the world is such a cold place.

Try moving somewhere else? That’s what I did and plan to do again (to Japan maybe).

M__ When and where would you say that people lived better than in today’s “Western Principal” governed societies?
- In communist China?
- Imperial Japan?
- Feudal Japan or China?
- Feudal India?
- Modern India?
- Ancient Arabia
- Modern Arabia?
- Ancient Australia?
- Ancient America?
- Africa?
- Ancient Greece?

D__ dont know haven't been there, wasn't there. and for WHO. for the white middle class...the poor brown people. who?
and all those places and epochs are also patriarchal. the patriarchy is known for its p[ower over worldview.

For all the negativity, you still haven’t offered a better time and a better place than today.

though i imagine there would have been pockets one could live a relatively free unhinderd life. differernt to now in our very overcrowded world, where much wild-erness has almost gone

A VERY long time ago indeed – 10000 to 30000 years ago?

D__ "personally"..yes, i can imagine you would with the fundamental views you hold to

Again, a great way to avoid answering the question.

When?
Where?
PS: You have no idea of my world views, just a thin slice.

D__ right. so we are in Japan now are we?

Again, pointedly avoiding offering an answer.

As to Japan – hey, guess what, they’re a part of the world too. Crazy huh? And they had a history. And I offered Japan as an example, something you seem to be avoiding doing. But you’re good at pointing out today’s ills, just bad at offering an example of a better time and a better place. Yeah, life’s tough sitting in your warm house, drinking a beer, and complaining how hard it is.

When and Where was it better duendy?

D__slavery is particular to the patriarchal side of things.
dont understand your point however. key word is PATRIARCHY?

I didn’t say anything about Patriarchic Societies? Of course I know what they represent. You seem to be arguing with yourself as I never mentioned the word patriarchy.

My point was offereing another example of how things USED to be, before now, which is better - when compared to then. Somehting you haven't done yet.

Why not?

- To think that catching a cold or flu cold result in your death is worrisome?

You may not know it, but it used to be deadly serious.

This is a common belief from people of your persuasion. it is , eg., blame the Indigenous peoples, then we can get on fukin with the planet and feel justified

I didn’t say anything about F*cking the planet and I didn’t blame Indigenous societies.

What I did do is state a fact.

You seem to think that causing massive extinction is ONLY a modern day "white-man" phenomena. I’m pointing out that IT ISN’T. You seem to suggest, that indigenous societies were lovey-dovey and at one with the land – they weren’t. They may have destroyed and killed and hunted to extinction all manner of things. But, as your article notes, the vote is still out.

Which is a lot different than saying we can do what we want with the planet.

I personally think that we need to hold corporate leaders legally responsible for what environmental damage they do. No, not fining the Corp, but actually placing the leaders of the corp. into jail.

So don’t take my words and twist them, which is what you seem to enjoy doing.

Lastly, as you mentioned about Numerology and Astrology awhile back. Which actually had something to do with my Post. You must find it perplexing that the 5000 years of Astro reading added up to not one worth-wild prediction that helped a single person on December 26th.

Crazy HUH? Who’d have thought it? Very perplexing . . . .that is, unless, they don’t actually have the ability to look into the future?

Really Weird huh?

 

[Ophiolite]

Wow, Michael, you responded to many of Duendy's points as I intended, though with greater precision and tolerance than I would have managed.

I liked your earlier point about conditioning It’s like his brain NEEDED some kind of an explanation and once it had one – then it was fine .
We are certainly curious - one might argue that our curiosity is as important as our intelligence. Clearly they are closely related. And curiosity demands answers, perhaps, as you suggest, at any price.

By the way I have seen ghosts on two occasions (once in moonlight, once in bright artificial light) and have no doubt that they were hallucinations. I think that if I can be skeptical of my own eye witness testimony it entitles me to be skeptical of others'.

You mentioned UFOs btw, and seem to totally dismiss EVERY reported occurrance of them ever reported in the annals of historical records.

You are correct: I seem to totally dismiss them. In truth I have an open mind. I have seen none that convince me. Most are perfectly ordinary objects or phenomena misinterpreted by witnesses. Some are extra-ordinary objects or phenomena, such as secret military experiments or ball lightning, or natural phenomena as yet unrecognised. (And some are hoaxes.)
There may be the genuine ET article amid all this dross, but I cannot discern it. I remind you of Carl Sagan's dictum, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs".

 

[Leo Volont]

What is the purpose of Prophecy but for God to tell Humanity what He wants Humanity to know? But if God would have put out a Tsunami Warning then don't you think some people would have gotten out of the way? This would be God working at cross purposes with Himself. Apparently God WANTED a large body count.

But God did not want to kill everybody, and so on an individual basis He saved those whom He selected to be saved. For instance, a Customer Service Specialist who lives in Madras whom I recently had an opportunity to speak with had made a date to jog on the beach with some of his friends, the day after Christmas. He overslept, and lived. No Angel came from Heaven with a fiery Warning... it was enough to keep the blanket of sleep on him for just another hour and his individual life was saved. That is how God works.

 

[Ophiolite]

How do you know it wasn't intervention by the devil?

 

[guthrie]

Theres anothre thread asking effectively why people feel the need for an overarching principle and meaning in their life, ie "God", or Spiritualism or something. Given that Micahel is pointing out that it seems to be hardwired, and I have heard a few comments that it does seem tobe according ot modern nueronal research, the question is, why do we have it? Either a 'god" put it there, or else, amongst other possible explanations, it is an evolved and inherited ability.

Now, we all know that humans are very good at spotting patterns, so much so that they spot them when they arent there. So is the more religious urge and search for meaning an outgrowth of that ability, or a kind of taking it to the next level of abstraction, of searching for patterns inside ourselves rather than in the external world?

At the moment i would hazard that it does help personal survival, look at the cohesive utility of religion (leaving asid the other problems,) and the way that meaning and suchlike help people face up to life.

 

[duendy]

I’m not sure what this is about. My point is many people do not think logically. For example, if I can not disprove God ergo God exists. That is illogical. And, funny enough I hear that sort of argument made on any number of claims. And that’s all I was trying to say.

D--And again i am asking you. do you know the history of the EMERGENCE of the dieification of 'Logos', or the enthronement of 'reason', do you not undersand that this was a major transition, it has become a dctrine in its
own right, stigmatizing any other form of understanding with reality. So for example, compare with Hinduism:
its Upanishadian dogma believed that reality was 'maya', ie., ilusion, so that any thought that might contradict this dogma were negated by the very dogma. now i am sure you dont agree with Upanishadian dogma, but cant you see its mirror relationship with your own 'creed'. that only 'logic' can be accepted as showing truth....go on...TRY. think about it a little

No I am not going to ridicule them for their belief. As a matter of fact I’d like to learn more about it as well as other aspect of their culture. That said; I will not believe they have seen spirits unless they can offer me some evidence that they have seen some spirits.

D-- But can you not see how your crtieria--coming from your religin of 'scientific method--is INCONGROUS with their experience. and thus you could never meet?

Just as I would not believe you if you were to tell me you willed yourself to the Moon the other day and spent the afternoon walking around enjoying the gentle weightlessness. You may believe you did, but that doesn’t mean you did.

D--WHy doesn't it MEAn i didn't If i EXPERIENCEd it and it meant it for me. who are you to come with your stehescope and microspoe and science books and dictate to me what My experience must 'mean' for me?

I disbelieve all stories of people “seeing” ghosts/sprits and with just one piece of evidence I will change my view. But that hasn’t happened – has it.

D--i know, cause you are stuck with the 'evidence-trip' thang. You are wanting evidence under the criteria of science which by its wn mode of operation has ceased to accept QUALITy as being important. don't you see how you are caught in a trap?

There is no evidence that anyone has “seen” or “spoken to” or anything else with a ghost.

D--"evidence"

That isn’t to say that the “experience” of seeing a ghost isn’t real. I’m sure it most certainly is. But that’s very different than saying the ghost is real.

D--.you are revealing sciences' confusion regarding mind/body 'problem'. do you admit they still are stuck with the 'hard problem' or are you claiming it has been solved. if so, please let me share your...evidence

I do not believe that “ghosts/spirits” exist.

D--we know

People may have reported seeing ghosts and been quit honest when they did so. So I am not saying that “Ghost Seers” are “Liars”. Many may indeed have had an experience whereby they seen ghost in as far as they experienced a series of nerve impulse in their occipital lobe and interpreted these as Ghosts.

D--right so i go to you with an experience like that and you tell me YOUr PHYSICALIST dogma?

The connection with the hypnotist story is that the real answer is that the person was condiditoned to take off their shoes and place them on their desk. When the trigger came this is what they did. When asked why – they quickly said their feet was hot because their brain was searching for an explanation for just why they did it. Again, the real reason is because they were conditioned to take off their shoes. That isn’t to say that upon looking back that the person didn’t have a memory of their feet being hot.

In the same manner if a person sees a ghost, as with all sights of anything it is just a series of nerve impulse being interpreted by our brain as “sight”. So the “seeing” part is taking place in our minds. You may be looking at the PC but what you are seeing is in your mind. So when a person “sees” a ghost it is still in their mind where they see it. All I’m saying, is because there has never been any evidence to back it up, it’s quite sensible to assume that when a person sees a ghost it is ONLY in their mond and not in the real world. Which is different than saying that they didn’t see a ghost – I’m sure they did, but it was only an additional creation added by their mind for whatever reasons and did not exist outside of the persons mind.

D--can you see ultraviolet rays? cosmic rays? can you smell like a dog? hear like a dog?......that's real isn't it?

Is it any wonder that many people “see” ghosts when in a trance or when in a panic or, in a few cases, may have a serious mental condition......

D--ooops, this should be part of the below reply))--and i have heard of ghost sightings when people haven't been in a panic. it happened quite natrually. an example, a person was kind of nudged by a person---you know like if you were shopping and someone just got in your way for a moment type of thing. then the person noticed this entity walk into a wall and disappear

D--well i seriously question the 'mental illness' myth. i have nothing against trance of r entering into deeper dimensions of EXPERIENCE. ancinet peoples have doen same for millenia........

Outside of meditation or drug induced stupor most of the time that is exactly what our brain does day-in and day-out.



1) Communism, is it illogical? I don’t know. It doesn’t appear to work though. Which isn’t to say its illogical – just that it doesn’t work for us.
D--well i calss belief structures that dont work and cause millions of deaths as illogical---that's just me

2) I do try to understand the world, as do most of us. I am not saying that I make the world as I do change my point of view continuouisly. But I do not believe in the supernatural because there is no evidence that is exists.

D--I also dont believe in the 'supernatrual' as in some miraculous reality lordin it over 'mechanical' reality as th christian church would have it. i am on about DEEPNESS. deeper interrelationship WITh reality on an experiential level, not just logical level. Logic is a TOOl really meant to work in complementarity with deeper sensual awareness

3) Astrology may have some logic. It may be that people born in the extremes of winter may have had different personalities than people born in the blush of spring or the heat of summar or the chill of autum. THAT makes sense.

Saying that you’re born in January and hence your a Capricorn or Aquarius and because the moon is in such in such quadrant this or that will happen to you – no that doesn’t make logical sense. Stars are just burning balls of nuclear fission – there is no logi

D--i have a p[roblem with "Just"..it is only one side, and is reductionist. there are deeper ways to relate with a balling fire ball in vast space, as there is with any 'thing'

 

[Leo Volont]

Dear Michael,

Sister Lucy, the surviving Seer for Our Lady of Fatima, in 1917 predicted the Rise of Russia as a Superpower, and she predicted World War Two. She even emphasize a Supernatural Marker that would indicate the onset of World War II. The Sky would go Red. Well, six months before hostilities broke out there was the unprecedented phenomena which was described as the Aurora Borealus being entirely Red and projecting itself further into the southern skies than it ever had done before. Sister Lucy saw it from her convent and immediately asked to telephone the Vatican and told the Pope "that's it".

Surprisingly, we have the story of Adolf Hitler looking up at the Red Sky and telling his croonies what it meant... that all the bluffing and easy gains were over and soon blood would have to be poured out.


More recently we have had the Apparitions of Medjugorje in Hersegovina. She still appears to a few of the 8 Seers to whom She appeared constantly back in the 80's. We are told that She gave each of the 8 Seers a List of 10 Prophecies -- a few personal Prophecies, a few Local Prophecies, but also a few Universal Prophecies. We are told that a protocol would be set up so that 8 days before any of the Major Prophecies were to trigger, that the Seer would announce it through a predetermined line of Communication to the Vatican.

During the 60's there was also an Apparition in Garabandal Spain in which about 4 Seers, again children, were given secret Prophecies for the future. It was one of the Garabandal Seers who insists that John Paul II is for all intents and purposes the Last Pope.

The Garabandal Seers are now all in their 50's. The Medjugorje Seers in their 30's and 40's. And we know all of the Disasterous Prophecies will come to pass in their Lifetime. We have been told that although the disasters can be mitigated somewhat by prayer and fasting, still there are some disasters which simply have to take their toll.

One of the Fatima Seers, the youngest, Jacinta, was asked what she could say of these disasterous prophecies for the future and she replied that it would be very bad for many and good for a few.

 

[Q25]

The Medjugorje Seers in their 30's and 40's. And we know all of the Disasterous Prophecies will come to pass in their Lifetime.

so how come they havent warned anyone about this latest tsunami disaster?

One of the Fatima Seers, the youngest, Jacinta, was asked what she could say of these disasterous prophecies for the future and she replied that it would be very bad for many and good for a few.

that certainly narrows it down!

 

[ZenEthics]

What’s synesthesia? From Webster: It’s a concomitant sensation - especially : a subjective sensation or image of a sense (as of color) other than the one (as of sound) being stimulated. Like tasting the color purple or seeing a rainbow of colors when listening to music.

i have synesthesia, and to help you with you query i think a basic understanding of what happens in a persons brain will settle your doubts about psychics and religion.

most forms of synesthesia(including the one i have) is the visual recognition of visual (only visual) numbers and the addition of colors to those numbers. this is because the part in your brain that is used for visual numbers, and a part that deals mostly with visual colors, are right next to each other, a genetic difference creates a sort of cross wiring that, upon the firing of certain quales, twin quales will fire as well. (for me its yellow 2's and blue 4's)

a deeper understanding of science does away with silly things like, souls...or psychics...... i suggest you understand what humans are, and why we are(from a scientific view).

 

[Leo Volont]

so how come they havent warned anyone about this latest tsunami disaster?

Actually, the Tsunami Disaster hardly qualifies compared to the disaster that we are expecting. Do the Math. At most the Tsunami took out .004% of the World's Population.

If .004% of the money in your wallet were removed, would you care?

If you were on a diet and after a month found that you lost .004% of the weight you had wanted to lose, would you celebrate?

So, only if you think God has a special interest in each and every one of us could you suppose it reasonable for God to go out of His way for .004% of Humanity.

What we really need to look at are disasters that will effectively depopulate continents. Now if a 9.0 Earthquake were to hit California then that could perhaps precipitate a total collapse of the American Markets and make the Dollar worthless. High commodity prices would soon pull food out of America. Likewise, patroleum stores would be sold off for currencies that still had some value. Without food, and without patroleum for transporting whatever foodstuffs would remain, a large part of the American Population would starve out.

If America were to fall into chaos, the rest of the World's Markets would be confused for some time to come. Much food comes from America, and without these supplies, commodity prices would go up everywhere. The good news is that without America drinking up all the Petrol, oil prices would drop.

Capitalism largely depends upon export markets to generate profit (nations don't pay their workers enough to buy their own products, after the mark up for profit, so profit must come from outside of the closed system... from Exports). And most Economies had depended on exporting into Amercian Markets to generate their Profits. Without America, there would be a great incentive for De-Capitalizing the Economic Systems and rather Plan for necessary Production than production for profit. Afterall, since Profit can only be realized by exploiting export markets, a One World Ecomony will find that it has no external markets left to 'export' to... and if a One World Economy will not pay its Workers exactly enough to buy all of the finished product, then inventories must inevitably go unsold, but in any case, there will no longer be the infusion of wealth into the closed system which has always been the source of Profit.

But initially, I anticipate that the Capitalists will simply pull the plugs on the World economy and let production everywhere come to a halt. Without the Profit Motive the World Economies will at first be paralyzed. And that would spread the disaster to the other remaining Continents. You see, in the World today it is the Corporations, not the governments, that hold the real power.

But, anyway, compared to these scenarios for disaster, the Tsunami was largely inconsiderable. Food, Petroleum, and Currencies are still flowing without the slightest hickup. When a disaster interrups any of those Big Three important things, then we will have a Problem that somebody should have predicted.

 

[Leo Volont]

The Tabloid Paper, "The Sun", has printed a story that says that the Uncorrupt Body of Berndette Souborus, the Seer for Our Lady of Lourdes, has been heard whispering Prophecies for the year 2005.

Now it is true that the body of Bernedette has remained almost the same as the day it died, almost a hundred years ago. Many Catholic Saints have not decayed. But it has not been very common for them to whisper prophecies.

It seems that unless a lot of prayer brings God in to intervene, in March the Iranians will announce they are a Nuclear Power, and the Israelis will initiate, in April, something of a minor Nuclear Holocaust. China will jump in to avenge Iran, and the United States will jump in to avenge Israel. In all about 500 Million, or 7% of the World's Population will go up in smoke.

I can imagine that America would have used their little opportunity there in order to entirely neutralize China. However, what they may have failed to consider is that more than half of the productivity of the World had been coming out of China, mostly in the form of those little component parts that every other economy had been out-sourcing to China. It may well be found that if China were to suddenly be blown up, Industrical Capacity all over the World would grind to a halt for lack of all the necessary nuts and bolts that had been coming from China. Prices would skyrocket. But other producers would soon jump in. Korea, India and even Mexico and Brazil have a great deal of excess capacity and increasingly a technically educated population which could jump in and take up much of the slack left by a devastated China.

Of course, the Newspaper did not indicate whether Bernedette whispered just how badly America would be hit. Remember how badly the Markets tumbled when just two little buildings in New York crumbled and fell down. The World Markets are anything but robust and can't seem to even tolerate the smallest of punches. Almost any sizeable disruption to the American Economy could precipitate just the kind of global economic disaster I mentioned in that previous post above.

Then Bernedette said something about Prince Charles renouncing the Throne to marry that horsefaced Camille Bowes lady. .... And just when we were taking her seriouslly...

 

[ZenEthics]

The Tabloid Paper, "The Sun", has printed a story that says that the Uncorrupt Body of Berndette Souborus, the Seer for Our Lady of Lourdes, has been heard whispering Prophecies for the year 2005.

Now it is true that the body of Bernedette has remained almost the same as the day it died, almost a hundred years ago. Many Catholic Saints have not decayed. But it has not been very common for them to whisper prophecies.

It seems that unless a lot of prayer brings God in to intervene, in March the Iranians will announce they are a Nuclear Power, and the Israelis will initiate, in April, something of a minor Nuclear Holocaust. China will jump in to avenge Iran, and the United States will jump in to avenge Israel. In all about 500 Million, or 7% of the World's Population will go up in smoke.

I can imagine that America would have used their little opportunity there in order to entirely neutralize China. However, what they may have failed to consider is that more than half of the productivity of the World had been coming out of China, mostly in the form of those little component parts that every other economy had been out-sourcing to China. It may well be found that if China were to suddenly be blown up, Industrical Capacity all over the World would grind to a halt for lack of all the necessary nuts and bolts that had been coming from China. Prices would skyrocket. But other producers would soon jump in. Korea, India and even Mexico and Brazil have a great deal of excess capacity and increasingly a technically educated population which could jump in and take up much of the slack left by a devastated China.

Of course, the Newspaper did not indicate whether Bernedette whispered just how badly America would be hit. Remember how badly the Markets tumbled when just two little buildings in New York crumbled and fell down. The World Markets are anything but robust and can't seem to even tolerate the smallest of punches. Almost any sizeable disruption to the American Economy could precipitate just the kind of global economic disaster I mentioned in that previous post above.

Then Bernedette said something about Prince Charles renouncing the Throne to marry that horsefaced Camille Bowes lady. .... And just when we were taking her seriouslly...

im confused, why are these posts not weeded out with the rest of the trash? isnt this a scientific forum?

 

[Leo Volont]

im confused, why are these posts not weeded out with the rest of the trash? isnt this a scientific forum?

Hey, you need to go to the Infidel Guy Site where everybody with an opinion that is not 100% Dweeb Approved gets banned. Here, you only get to moan and complain when you can't come up with an answer for something.