Tax cuts or Pay Raise?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Write4U, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    tax cuts for the upper middle class to invest in borrowing against low income rental price inflation ?

    lol

    i hope not

    will prices stay the same ?
    no
    will they go up or down ?
    up

    will wages go up or down ?
    (what value s a wage when prices are going up?[decreasing])

    so are tax cuts sustainable ?
    no
    because you cant keep cutting tax and keep the economy working(capitalists seem to forget to mention this reality)
    so if your pushing smaller government and more tax cuts
    where is the increasing government income going to come from to pay for all the existing stuff that is going up in price ?

    better to increase minimum wage than increase inflation via undermining the economic security of the government

    while many working class poor may vote for alt-right nazi like economic power to give themselves an extra $20.00 in the hand each week
    its going to cost them probably close to $50.00 a week in lost government tax spend per person

    trickle down economics is designed to fail to create a fire sale of the government so private elitists can buy the government
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Who is this guy talking about?

    If he wants to inform why doesn't he talk about the Sackler family, who are the scurrilous dealers of opioids and have completely destroyed entire segments of society with flooding the market with massive doses of Opioids.

    Now there is a perfect example of "supply side" economics!!!

    The Sackler Family’s Plan to Keep Its Billions

    The Trump Administration is poised to make a settlement with Purdue Pharma that it can claim as a victory for opioid victims. But the proposed outcome would leave the company’s owners enormously wealthy—and off the hook for good.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-sackler-familys-plan-to-keep-its-billions

    I wonder if this company received a Tax cut to off-set business expenses?

    Yes, the Trump era brought scourges from many direction. One might call it a Demon's ball.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  7. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    We know Write4U is out of his depth when he starts using pointless different color/bold text and copious exclamation marks.

    Tax cuts for anyone is a permanent raise.
    Trickle-down economics is just a pejorative straw man for supply-side economics. Otherwise, you need to show who advocates for only lowering the taxes of the rich.
    The rich do not just horde cash to swim around in. Since currencies consistently depreciate, the only way to maintain wealth is to invest it. Such investment doesn't return a profit unless it produces something of value.
    "Give people spending money"? From where? From other taxpayers, sapping their ability to stimulate the economy through spending, or by printing money, devaluing the spending power of the currency and effectively giving everyone a pay cut? The former stifles job creation, while the latter hurts those who can't afford to invest to counter the depreciation.
    Again, rich people do not just store their money away in a bank, where it will sit and depreciate over time. They invest in something that returns a profit because it is creating something of value. Companies sell stocks to expand their business and create more jobs. People only invest in businesses that have proven there's already a demand for their goods or services. So buying their stock allows those businesses to meet the demand, again, by expanding and creating more jobs.
    Productivity is not just a measure of hours worked, it also accounts for technology that allow people to do more in less time. So an increase in productivity is not equivalent to an increase in hours worked. This is why productivity and pay have diverged. In a voluntary, free market, people decide what jobs they are willing to do for what pay. Since technology has made us more productive, without extra labor, people are willing to do jobs, that were at one time more laborious, for less pay. Has nothing to do with anything trickling down. It has to do with choices that people freely make, which are the primary factor in income inequality. But tell me, why is the highest income inequality in Democrat-run cities and states, when Democrats are the biggest advocates for demand-side economics? Could it be that their policies just don't work in the real world?
    Rich people do not stay rich without investing. The more money they have, the more they invest.
    If given the choice, poor people generally do not spend their money wisely, much less on things like health insurance.
    Who said anything about government services? Private is always more cost effective than public, because public has no competition nor profit motive to improve upon services or prices. If anything, taxpayers have to continuously bailout public services that fail to cover their own operational expenses. That's not not-for-profit, that's operating at a continuous loss, which is money straight down the toilet.
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,874
    We know Write4U is out of his depth when he switches the subject to "trickle down economics" and then links paragraph after paragraph about that.

    IMO here is how we should judge the government. Follow the money, which in the case of the government is the tax rate. If the government is taking in no more than a third of your income when all taxes are combined then you can either just let them do what they want or if you care enough, you can get involved in the politics.

    More than that and the nature of our economic system is starting to shift from capitalism to socialism. When inheritance is completely taxed away that's communism. Capitalism is where our economic growth has come from. Socialism isn't know for growing the economy.

    There are also better ways to achieve the same outcome. For example to promote "affordable housing" you can have rent control (bad way) or you can have section 8 government housing (better way) where someone pays 1/3 of their income in rent and the difference between that and the market rate is made up by the government.

    If you want to create growth in the economy (especially in the housing market) you don't eliminate 1031 exchanges in the real estate market. 1031 exchanges means that someone fixed up one property and bought a bigger one and fixed that up. That's how growth in the economy is created.

    Expecting the government to improve your life rather than you improving your life is to kill the growth that actually can improve your life.
     
    Vociferous likes this.
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    At cost of what? You are the one out of depth.

    Cooperatives like a not-for-profit corporation like the GOVERNMENT serves all and large public projects which are decided by lowest qualified bids saves everybody money.

    Apparently you do not understand the term not-for profit when addressing common services like Healthcare, Infrastructure, Military Defense, Interstate Commerce, Airports, Bridges, Tunnels, High Speed rail, EPA, CDC, Wilderness Conservation, you want more????.

    You don't seem to understand that the government does not make a profit and every penny in revenue, must be spent for common good services.
    Apparently you see no problem with preferential consideration like the Halliburton Loophole., which exempts frackers and drillers from clean air and water regulations. You take your tax money and do a super-fund cleanup yourself while billionaires get another tax break and continue fracking the earth underneath your house, so you get flaming water from your tap, you myopic ignoramus .
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,078
    And then tell me when and where this has ever worked , unless it was during times of slavery. Trickle down economics has NEVER worked , except on the backs of cheap labor! And you dare profess to equality, bullshit. Your complete ignorance of natural selection will result in the death of all of us yet, you fool! Show me where I am wrong or shut the fuck up with your ignorant condescending attitude. You know nothing about natural processes!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,874
    Why do you keep talking about "trickle down economics"? No one is talking about that.

    I don't "profess to equality". I agree with equality in the law. Not with equality of outcome.

    Calling me a fool doesn't strengthen your argument not does added a bunch of "g's" to "nothing".

    I'm trying to show you that you are wrong but you aren't open to that apparently. "Natural processes"?

    What is Max Tegmark's view on this?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Of course you are. What else is there?
    That's is your response to my challenge?
    Oh, you're so pathetic, it's laughable.

    p.s. This physicist's name is Max Tegmark, ignorant fool! Oh, your sooooo smart....bah.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  13. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,874
    That would be "you're".

    What else is there? Everything other than high taxation isn't "trickle down economics".

    There is no good reason to eliminate 1031 exchanges. There is no good reason for rent control. There is no good reason to double the capital gains rate.

    Name calling just demonstrates that you are an unarmed man regarding thought and logic. If you can't control your emotions it's likely that you can't control your thought processes as well.

    Excuse me, I show probably have said that you can't control your thought processes as wellllllll.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,078
    Right, but "you're pathetic" still stands ....

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    There is only supply side or demand side economics. Everything else is just a compromise, but then it's no longer supply side anymore, and the term Socialism makes its dreaded appearance, according to you.
    So, we solve this problem with a tax cut for the rich and stagnating wages for the working class? Well goodie for you.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,874
    What problem are you trying to solve? Biden is looking to spend a lot of money and he has not put a lot of thought into how to get that money to spend in the first place. Spending money is easy, paying for it is the hard part.

    Cutting out tax incentives that were designed to grow the economy isn't a very logical move. Eliminating inheritance isn't a good move either. If you want more affordable housing you don't cut the tax incentives for real estate developers that are providing more housing.

    Worker pay isn't something that one dictates. If you want more pay for a worker you need to figure out how to get that worker to make him/her more valuable to the workplace.

    Spend a trillion dollars to allow every high school to turn out plumbers and electricians. At least that makes sense. Just telling an employer to pay his workers more is nonsense. Even you should be able to see that.

    Starting a class war and name calling, that's a solution only to a loser, wouldn't you agree?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think that?
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think that taking your money from you when you die is a good thing?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Biden is looking to INVEST a lot of money to bail out the Nation from the third ditch the Republicans have driven the country into.
    Clinton Obama, Biden all inherited disasters, results of "trickle down" tax cuts. Biden seeks to restore the Nation's economy to a more normal ratio of wealth and poverty.
    A 2.6 percent (2.6 cents on the dollar) tax hike of the top 1%, will generate enough money to pay for it all. You think those poor millionaires and billionaires cannot afford to pay 2.6 cents on every dollar ? Do you really believe that this will affect their tax free off-shore holdings?

    Biden wants to entirely pay for trillions in new spending by raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-wants-pay-for-spending-with-new-taxes-rich-corporations-2021-4
    https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates#
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually I do . But it is not I who is engaging in this type of politics, you are!

    The Republicans have declared a class war, and you started with the name calling.
    I am calling you out and you don't like it. And true to Trumpian form, you are now accusing me of what you are engaged in.

    I am not engaged in the BIG LIE, you are.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,874
    I didn't start with the name calling.
    I'm not a Republican.
    I'm not engage in a "BIG LIE".

    Why are you capitalizing words for no reason and posting definitions of capital gains? I know what capital gains are. I also know that Biden wants to double the rate from 20% to 40% and he isn't just applying that to the 1%.

    No one is complaining about increasing the income tax rate 2%.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,078
    I guess Biden does know what he is doing then. OK . Then don't complain and pretend you are an economic expert and Biden is an economic fool.
     
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I wouldn't comment if that was all he was proposing. Let's face it. You don't know what you are talking about and you are just arguing to be arguing.
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,078
    And what is that you know about Biden's economic recovery, that you are so sure about that it will fail and throw the nation into the depths of despair? What are your economic credentials, that you assume the right to insult my business acumen and my intelligence in general. I am sick of this hubris. Put up or shut up.

    I argue only what I see as worthy of arguing about and perhaps learning a few things along the way. Things which you may cite but refuse to discuss why they are detrimental and/or what might be a better solution. It is always easy to criticize, but very difficult to come up with solutions for a nation of some 300+ million people, which does not follow any organized economic practices and good stewardship over its natural resources that belong to all legal residents of the nation.

    The Republicans are famous for "obstruction" without having any plans that may solve or ameliorate the economic woes of the nation. They are the ones who time and time again ruin any economic progress made by the general citizenry, in favor of the very rich who buy their loyalty with "money", remember, money is no longer a "means of exchange" (quid pro quo), but "free speech" . Isn' t that a convenient cover for bribery?

    *The best helmsmen stand ashore*
    08 DECEMBER 2017 / ABERDEENREGISTERS
    (* Literal translation of the Dutch expression ‘De beste stuurlui staan aan wal’, which is used to indicate that it is easy to criticise someone doing a job when one is watching from the sidelines.)
    by Edda Frankot
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021

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