# The beginners guide to light!

I agree, a model is a model but I cannot see why it would be a problem to discuss the model and the intent of the model. In the model my opinion is that seeing nothing in our thoughts to conclude in the beginning there was nothing is not quite the same as nothing.
You are free to present a model, the current model may be replaced but to replace it you need something better.

I dont like the big bang model but have not a chance of presenting a better model...the problem for folk on the outside looking in is they can object but they can not present a better model...the steady state model fails because it does not rather did not predict the cosmic background radiation.

The big bang predicted it so when the background radiation was observed that put it as the better model...both could be wrong but at this point the big bang model is best at explaining observation and making prediction.

Now say my horse model predicts that next Tuesday a super nova will occur at specific co ordinates and the big bang does not...well if next Tuesday the super nova goes off when and where I predicted, well the horse model would get up.
Alex

That's your (uninformed) opinion. It's not what the science says.

No.
Of course it was an opinion. I do not know why you have said uninformed , I know about the big bang and that is why I have an opinion.

You say no to a light expansion, but if I am in a dark room and cannot see any distance, I then turn the light on, the space expands within a fraction of a second, light travels faster than any other object, the light expanded before any objects did.

I am going to go bed now, thank you all for the great discussion and correcting some of my misunderstandings.

Good night

I am looking at a reflection in a mirror of a red apple, I can also see the red apple in the same view. Photons are travelling from the mirror and the red apple to my eyes so I can see them both. How does the red of the apple travel across the space to the mirror without me seeing the red in that space?

There is ambient light that hits the apple. You cannot see it because it it not hitting your eye.

Some light is reflected from the apple. You can see the portion of that light that hits your eye, and you perceive that as "seeing an apple." There is lots of light that is reflected from the apple that does NOT hit your eye. You cannot see that light.

Some of the light reflected from the apple hits the mirror and is further reflected into your eye. You perceive that as "seeing an apple in a mirror." Again, there is lots of light that is reflected from the apple, then reflected from the mirror, that does NOT hit your eye. You cannot see that light.

You cannot see photons that pass in front of you. They do not "glow" or anything - they go straight, and do not interact with you. The only photons you can see are those aimed directly at the aperture of your eye.

They are absorbed by the cloths. Any photon traveling in the space between the two mirrors and between the cloths, will hit the cloths and be absorbed by them. Any photons caught between a mirror and a cloth will either directly absorbed by the cloth or reflected from the mirror and then absorbed by the cloth. The cloth will warm slightly from the absorption of these photons, And thus radiate IR photons in random directions. most of which will just escape off into space. Some will be emitted in the direction of the mirror the cloth is covering. If the mirror is a perfect reflector of the entire electromagnetic spectrum, these will be reflected back the cloth, reabsorbed and emitted again, though not necessarily back in the direction of the mirror. Over time, the cloths and mirrors will lose more photon to space and slowly cool. Given enough time, and barring any outside source of photons they will cool to near absolute zero. (in our universe, the present minimum would be ~2.73K which is the temp of the CMBR).

makes perfect realistic sense. i just got carried away there with some provocative idea. i was using the repeated reflections as the photons creating further dimensions (layers) of space but it's just an abstract idea.

I do not know why you have said uninformed , I know about the big bang and that is why I have an opinion.
I said uninformed because you are. You "know about the BB"? And yet you show throughout that you don't.

You say no to a light expansion, but if I am in a dark room and cannot see any distance, I then turn the light on, the space expands within a fraction of a second
Space does not expand when you turn on a light in a dark room.

Space does not expand when you turn on a light in a dark room.

I think you missed the the point of the example. In a dark room , how much space do you see? You have already learnt me that we would see no space. If I turn the light on, in an almost instant that 0 becomes a distance I can see. I believe that is more or less how you explained space expanding.

I think you missed the the point of the example. In a dark room , how much space do you see?
You don't see anything because not enough photons are entering your eyes to see.
You have already learnt me that we would see no space.
Then you misunderstood, you can't see space.
If I turn the light on, in an almost instant that 0 becomes a distance I can see.
Right, if a light is turned on you can see.
I believe that is more or less how you explained space expanding.
That is the silliest thing you have said... Uh, on this page.

You don't see anything because not enough photons are entering your eyes to see.

Then you misunderstood, you can't see space.

Right, if a light is turned on you can see.

That is the silliest thing you have said... Uh, on this page.
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I am probably not wording things well, this is a bad trait of mine. Sorry for this I am only human.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I am probably not wording things well, this is a bad trait of mine. Sorry for this I am only human.
The try explain it again.

The try explain it again.

I will try to explain in question and answer format

How much distance do we see when it is pitch black?

We see no distance when it is pitch black, distance is no longer perceived, X=0 to our perception.

What happens when we turn the light on?

X expands in a split second.

Do you now understand what I was trying to say?

amber said:
I have no idea sorry.
Oh I think you do have an idea.
Suppose you have an apple and an orange. How many apples or oranges are between them? Is it none?
Or, suppose you have a length of string and you make two knots in it. How many knots lie between the two you've made?

I will try to explain in question and answer format. How much distance do we see when it is pitch black?
None. You can't see anything when it it pitch black.
We see no distance when it is pitch black, distance is no longer perceived, X=0 to our perception.
Well, no. For example, if you are talking to your friend and someone turns out the light in the room, and you keep talking to your friend, that does not mean he has stopped existing just because you can't see him. (In this case you can still hear him, so you know he's still there.)

"Can't see something" != "does not exist"

What happens when we turn the light on? X expands in a split second.
Nothing expands. You can just see what you couldn't before.

None. You can't see anything when it it pitch black.

Well, no. For example, if you are talking to your friend and someone turns out the light in the room, and you keep talking to your friend, that does not mean he has stopped existing just because you can't see him. (In this case you can still hear him, so you know he's still there.)

"Can't see something" != "does not exist"

Nothing expands. You can just see what you couldn't before.
I am sorry , I have just discovered that I do not think in the same way as most people, I think in an abstraction manner. This can only lead to thread confusion because I do not explain it the same as perhaps you would. I now need to re-think , because my thought are now abstracting , abstraction. I will get back to you on the matter.

I will try to explain in question and answer format

How much distance do we see when it is pitch black?

We see no distance when it is pitch black, distance is no longer perceived, X=0 to our perception.

What happens when we turn the light on?

X expands in a split second.

Do you now understand what I was trying to say?
I agree with everything billvon said.
Your questions and answers are bizarre. You actually think space disappears if you turn off the light? Do you think you disappear if you close your eyes?
Are you on drugs or have you been drinking?

I agree with everything billvon said.
Your questions and answers are bizarre. You actually think space disappears if you turn off the light? Do you think you disappear if you close your eyes?
Are you on drugs or have you been drinking?
I do not think space disappears if you close your eyes, you just do not understand abstraction thinking so have no idea what I am on about or asking.

I do not think space disappears if you close your eyes, you just do not understand abstraction thinking so have no idea what I am on about or asking.
I understand abstract thinking, I do not understand incoherent, illogical and idiotic ramblings.

I understand abstract thinking, I do not understand incoherent, illogical and idiotic ramblings.
Typical man with the insults just because they cannot understand something.

I have asked the mods to move this to the cesspool. The cesspool is probably better than this thread deserves, but it should go somewhere far away from the science section.

I have asked the mods to move this to the cesspool. The cesspool is probably better than this thread deserves, but it should go somewhere far away from the science section.
Interesting, I have only asked questions in this thread, it is you being rude and obnoxious.

Typical man with the insults just because they cannot understand something.
Oh, I forgot to say congratulations on your change from a 44 year old male to 23 year old female! I understand the sex change, but how you managed to decrease your age is most impressive!