The Truth of the Personified God

[Thoreau]

Why do Abrahamic religions try to personify the concept of God? Why not an abstract, unfamiliar, unhumanlike God?

Why can't people just settle with the knowledge that if there is a God, that he/she/it can never and will never be understood? Instead they strive to relate to the very concept.

"I heard God talking to me".
Just because you think to yourself doesn't mean that it's from someone/something else.

"I've come to know God very well".
Again no. You've come to know your perceptions/opinions of a God, your god, very well.

"I pray/talk to God every night".
You laugh at psychic mediums yet claim that your God is one. Hmmm....

"God loves me".
No. You love you. There is a difference.

"I'm going to be with God when I die".
And where is this place? Tahiti? Mexico? Africa? A cloud in the sky? An unseen realm/dimension? And if he is here/everywhere as you claim him to be then why must you go somewhere else to be with him?

"God wants (insert random desire). It's his Will!"
No, you're just a control freak who doesn't hold enough power to actually control someone or something else so you decide to put the blame and burden on something that does have power to do so and pass it off as if you are God's messenger. Good job, Jean de Arc. "God wants the English to die!".

 

[one_raven]

My opinion...
Because Mommy and Daddy disappointed them.

Humans have extraordinarily pliable minds (not to mention physical brains).
If you teach a child that a man will come down his chimney and bring him presents, along with every other well-behaved child in the world, one night of the year, he will believe it.
If you tell a child that she is less than a man because she is a girl, she will believe it.
If you tell a child that the twinkling stars are eyes of angels and they are twinking with tears of joy, the child will beleive it.

Children get every need met by their parents. Food, shelter, love, language...
If a child has even reasonably apt parents, the child will see thos parents as infallible providers and protectors and all-knowing sages.
At some point, a child will discover that those parents are just people.
Exactly when and how that happens will have a profound effect on the person.
Often times that happens at about the same time the child is becoming self-aware and gathering insecurities.
Insecurites, fears, self-awareness and recognition of mortality is a powerful mix and will drive many people to look for that one perfect thing - the rock to depend on in a shaky world.
With proof that mom and dad are just human like you, gods fill that void quite nicely.
Gods, for most people, can't disappoint you.

If you scrutinize them, they may.
If you are introduced to othe rpoints of view they may.
If you depend on them to readily they may.
When they do, who you have become up to that point in life will largely dictate what your response will be.

If believing in gods makes you feel good, safe, protected, assured about the afterlife... If believing in gods assuages your insecurities, then you will likely continue to believe in them.

People, even "normal" people, can convince themselves of just about anything.
In an uncertain world, every one of us convinces him/herself of many things all the time.
You are a Democrat. It is safe to go outside. It is not safe to go outside. People are good and trustworthy - or they are not. You are attractive. Your husband makes you happy. You are a good parent. You are intelligent. You are right. Life is worth living.
Humans have extraordinarily pliable minds.

 

[lightgigantic]

Why do Abrahamic religions try to personify the concept of God? Why not an abstract, unfamiliar, unhumanlike God?

why an abstract, unfamiliar, god (I can ride with an unhumanlike god, since many of our frailties don't stand well on an omni- personality)?

Why can't people just settle with the knowledge that if there is a God, that he/she/it can never and will never be understood? Instead they strive to relate to the very concept.

If you have an article that can never be understood, you can never bring your action in to line.

For instance if one could never understand that only motor grade oil (and not cooking oil) should be used in a vehicle, they will never have a car that will go further than a few 100 km.

Similarly, if one has a view that they can never (begin) to understand god, anything becomes permissible (which is remarkably similar to the atheistic adage of Dostoevsky)

"I heard God talking to me".
Just because you think to yourself doesn't mean that it's from someone/something else.

"I've come to know God very well".
Again no. You've come to know your perceptions/opinions of a God, your god, very well.

generally people make such statements in regard to their conscience. Even though there is an argument for an awareness of god developing in one's conscience,as you point out, simply to make the statement "this is what my conscience is telling me" says nothing about the state of one's conscience.

"I pray/talk to God every night".
You laugh at psychic mediums yet claim that your God is one. Hmmm....

I'm not sure what point you are trying to strike here ... I think there is a distinction between "prayer" and "talk" though

"God loves me".
No. You love you. There is a difference.

In that case, we would have recourse to an opulence that god doesn't (since most people esteem the value of love above all others) ..... which is hardly conducive to a world view that encompasses a personal god or even anything in the general direction of platonic idealism

"I'm going to be with God when I die".
And where is this place? Tahiti? Mexico? Africa? A cloud in the sky? An unseen realm/dimension? And if he is here/everywhere as you claim him to be then why must you go somewhere else to be with him?

The idea is that material existence tends to be underpinned by issues of separation that make it inconvenient

"God wants (insert random desire). It's his Will!"
No, you're just a control freak who doesn't hold enough power to actually control someone or something else so you decide to put the blame and burden on something that does have power to do so and pass it off as if you are God's messenger. Good job, Jean de Arc. "God wants the English to die!".

God wants that we finish our pathetic desires that relegate us to material existence.

Everything else is relative to that, and the caliber of any person claiming to be god's representative can be gauged according to that (although before you begin such gauging it might pay to properly investigate what is central to their message as opposed to an off the cuff or secondary statement)

 

[Lori_7]

MZ you sound like you're having a tantrum. Pull yourself together.

Listen, I have had experiences that have proven to me without a doubt that there is indeed a spiritual realm and a force that has imparted knowledge and understanding to me and is definately beyond any constraints that exist in this physical world. Something I can't define but has characteristics of what I call god. Now why that might piss you off or offend you I have no idea, but I think you're being pretty disrespectful.

 

[Thoreau]

LoL! I don't get offended, so don't worry. Also, don't worry because as I said personally to LG, I've been trumped. Anywho.....

 

[Rav]

Let me preface this by saying that I haven't had anything to do with Christianity for over 15 years. I'm mentioning this so that if people feel inclined to engage me in debate, hopefully they'll do it on a more objective intellectual level than they otherwise might.

It should be obvious to anyone who properly considers the Christian concept of God as described in the Bible that when He says that he created man in his image, he means his spiritual image. God is quite obviously not a physical being, although He can of course manifest himself physically if He so chooses. Any perception to the contrary is in error.

Also, Heaven and Hell are not physical places. There are of course many colorful metaphors that are used to describe the nature of Hell in particular, but the afterlife is a spiritual afterlife, not a physical one. Because this is made perfectly clear, one needs to keep it in mind when considering the nature of such places. It reasonably follows that Heaven is spiritual oneness with God, and Hell is spiritual separation. The former is eternally blissful and the latter is eternally horrible. The horror is that which a person would experience if all the goodness and love was removed from the world. What is left is hopelessness, fear and misery. Certainly emotionally and spiritual painful enough to be accurately described as eternal suffering.

Again, I am making no claims regarding the actual truth of any of this. In fact I have an array of complex intellectual objections to some of these ideas. But if you are going to talk about Christianity, especially if you are going to attack it, you need to understand exactly what it is. Otherwise all you've got in front of you is a man you made out of straw, and Christianity itself comes away completely unscathed.

 

[Enmos]

Why do Abrahamic religions try to personify the concept of God? Why not an abstract, unfamiliar, unhumanlike God?

Why can't people just settle with the knowledge that if there is a God, that he/she/it can never and will never be understood? Instead they strive to relate to the very concept.

Because humans as a species have a superiority complex.
Also notice how Christians say that Jesus found them, as if they are special.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

"I'm going to be with God when I die". And if he is here/everywhere as you claim him to be then why must you go somewhere else to be with him?

I like that logic. I guess what theists really want is for God to give a shit about them somewhere, because it ain't happening here.

LG says:

God wants that we finish our pathetic desires that relegate us to material existence.

See what I mean? Isn't everyone tired of hearing that old standard?

I assume that means God's wants are not pathetic desires. A whole universe has been dedicated to the expunging of our desires. Quite dramatic. Where did the pathetic desires come from? To say God put us here for the express purpose of ridding ourselves of pathetic desires then that must mean we brought them with us from somewhere. If we are reincarnated then we obviously didn't get flushed in a previous life. Is that it LG?

 

[flameofanor5]

Why do Abrahamic religions try to personify the concept of God? Why not an abstract, unfamiliar, unhumanlike God?

Why can't people just settle with the knowledge that if there is a God, that he/she/it can never and will never be understood? Instead they strive to relate to the very concept.

"I heard God talking to me".
Just because you think to yourself doesn't mean that it's from someone/something else.

"I've come to know God very well".
Again no. You've come to know your perceptions/opinions of a God, your god, very well.

"I pray/talk to God every night".
You laugh at psychic mediums yet claim that your God is one. Hmmm....

"God loves me".
No. You love you. There is a difference.

"I'm going to be with God when I die".
And where is this place? Tahiti? Mexico? Africa? A cloud in the sky? An unseen realm/dimension? And if he is here/everywhere as you claim him to be then why must you go somewhere else to be with him?

"God wants (insert random desire). It's his Will!"
No, you're just a control freak who doesn't hold enough power to actually control someone or something else so you decide to put the blame and burden on something that does have power to do so and pass it off as if you are God's messenger. Good job, Jean de Arc. "God wants the English to die!".

You cannot personify the real God, since we are created in His image.

 

[786]

I like that logic. I guess what theists really want is for God to give a shit about them somewhere, because it ain't happening here.

Actually that could simply mean more "closeness". As in you actually see God and what not.. But just suggesting that it doesn't have to be your cut-and-dry interpretation.

Peace be unto you

 

[deicider]

The true god is Gredaplamtak,he can "speak" you whenever he wants,
he's everywhere,he loves you,when you die u'll go to a place called Driktopkeraervex with Gredaplamtak for eternity(if u do right in ur life)
You can't see him,you can't touch him,you can't this ,that etc etc etc...
How do you know that my god is true and not yours?

 

[deicider]

Christian theist:
Cause we said it first!!

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Actually that could simply mean more "closeness". As in you actually see God and what not.. But just suggesting that it doesn't have to be your cut-and-dry interpretation.

Thank you for an example of one of theism's greatest mistakes. Interpreting age old fables to suit their message.

So I should believe thatnot only did God build this incredibly massive universe for us to rid ourselves of our pathetic desires but He put it down in a book that never really says He did. I think what attracts theists to their respective bibles is the fact they can interpret the language within to suit their passion.

 

[786]

Thank you for an example of one of theism's greatest mistakes. Interpreting age old fables to suit their message.

So I should believe thatnot only did God build this incredibly massive universe for us to rid ourselves of our pathetic desires but He put it down in a book that never really says He did. I think what attracts theists to their respective bibles is the fact they can interpret the language within to suit their passion.

I don't think I have agreed or said any of the above. I only seem to say that your interpretation doesn't have to be necessarily true. For one I don't believe that we came here to "rid ourselves of our pathetic desires", and I feel no reason to discuss the issue, I'm simply saying that your derived interpretation is not the only one.

Peace be unto you

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I don't think I have agreed or said any of the above. I only seem to say that your interpretation doesn't have to be necessarily true. For one I don't believe that we came here to "rid ourselves of our pathetic desires", and I feel no reason to discuss the issue, I'm simply saying that your derived interpretation is not the only one.

Peace be unto you

You missed the point. First it is LG's contention that we are here to rid ourselves of our pathetic desires.

I'm saying there is no need for interpretation if you believe in a god and His respective bible. It should never be open to discussion. There should be no doubts whatsoever if God is sending the message.

 

[(Q)]

Listen, I have had experiences that have proven to me without a doubt that there is indeed a spiritual realm and a force that has imparted knowledge and understanding to me and is definately beyond any constraints that exist in this physical world. Something I can't define but has characteristics of what I call god.

Others call it delusion and insanity, especially when the deluded/insane have widely varying explanations of those characteristics.

 

[deicider]

The true god is Gredaplamtak,he can "speak" you whenever he wants,
he's everywhere,he loves you,when you die u'll go to a place called Driktopkeraervex with Gredaplamtak for eternity(if u do right in ur life)
You can't see him,you can't touch him,you can't this ,that etc etc etc...
How do you know that my god is true and not yours?


I really want a theist to answer that....

 

[(Q)]

I really want a theist to answer that....

Any answer will simply be a regurgitation of that particular theists cult doctrines. Would you expect anything more than that?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The true god is Gredaplamtak,he can "speak" you whenever he wants,
he's everywhere,he loves you,when you die u'll go to a place called Driktopkeraervex with Gredaplamtak for eternity(if u do right in ur life)
You can't see him,you can't touch him,you can't this ,that etc etc etc...
How do you know that my god is true and not yours?


I really want a theist to answer that....

A god by any other name is still a god. I don't think this scenario will even phase a theist. You're basically describing what is commonly believed to already be, only the names are different.

 

[786]

You missed the point. First it is LG's contention that we are here to rid ourselves of our pathetic desires.

I'm saying there is no need for interpretation if you believe in a god and His respective bible. It should never be open to discussion. There should be no doubts whatsoever if God is sending the message.

Well I have nothing to do with LG's assertions, as the for the rest I was only referring to the question the OP had about "be with God".

Peace be unto you