The universe is a mathematical construct

[river]

Lets stop running around circles, shall we. Physics is meaningless without mathematics as much as space is meaningless without time or time without space.

Agreed , lets .

But to the Physical Objects Themselves , mathematics doesn't matter . Mathematics only matters to us .

 

[Write4U]

Agreed , lets .

But to the Physical Objects Themselves , mathematics doesn't matter .

It doesn't need to, as long as they behave according to the mathematics. There are universal mathematics which are a property of spacetime, and the human interpretation and symbolization of universal mathematics, which are useful only to humans.

A Sunflower does not need to know the Fibonacci Sequence to grow in that most economically efficient evolutionary growth pattern, a naturally evolved mathematical pattern, by natural selection.

 

[river]

It doesn't need to, as long as they behave according to the mathematics. There are universal mathematics which are a property of spacetime, and the human interpretation and symbolization of universal mathematics, which are useful only to humans.

A Sunflower does not need to know the Fibonacci Sequence to grow in that most economically efficient evolutionary growth pattern, a naturally evolved mathematical pattern, by natural selection.

Mathematics is the consequence of physical things .

To your last statement .

Physically the sunflower did what it does . The mathematical came after the form .

 

[river]

Write4U

Why is there a physical form ?

 

[Write4U]

Mathematics is the consequence of physical things .

To your last statement .

Physically the sunflower did what it does . The mathematical came after the form .

That's not the point. The point is that it is the most efficient pattern, which emerged from millenia of natural self-forming patterns starting from chaos. In a dynamical environment there can only be relational values guided by mathematical laws.

Don't forget that all of this started in utter chaos and is slowly sorting itself out. There is no such thing as "irreducible complexity". It all starts with a + a = b

 

[Write4U]

Write4U
Why is there a physical form ?

An evolved mathematically arranged pattern for efficient function? Check out the Table of Elements. Beautifully arranged patterns giving each atom its unique values and behavioral properties.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Write4U
Why is there a physical form ?

An evolved mathematically arranged pattern for efficient function?

So the mathematical needs the physical to exist to have a mathematical pattern .

 

[Write4U]

So the mathematical needs the physical to exist to have a mathematical pattern .

Well you cannot see any pattern unless it is physically expressed. Without stuff there would be no patterns, but the mathematical essence of spacetime would still be an inherent potential of its geometry. I see it as a fundamental Logic, a quasi-intelligent hierarchical ordering of relational values.

In the spacetime fabric there are abstract inherent Vectors and Scalars (logical patterns).

Vector (mathematics and physics)

In mathematics and physics, a vector is an element of a vector space.
For many specific vector spaces, the vectors have received specific names, which are listed below.

Historically, vectors were introduced in geometry and physics (typically in mechanics) before the formalization of the concept of vector space. Therefore, one often talks about vectors without specifying the vector space to which they belong. Specifically, in a Euclidean space, one considers spatial vectors, also called Euclidean vectors which are used to represent quantities that have both magnitude and direction, and may be added, subtracted and scaled (i.e. multiplied by a real number) for forming a vector space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(mathematics_and_physics)

Scalar (mathematics and physics)

A scalar is an element of a field which is used to define a vector space. A quantity described by multiple scalars, such as having both direction and magnitude, is called a vector.[1]

In linear algebra, real numbers or other elements of a field are called scalars and relate to vectors in a vector space through the operation of scalar multiplication, in which a vector can be multiplied by a number to produce another vector.[2][3][4] More generally, a vector space may be defined by using any field instead of real numbers, such as complex numbers. Then the scalars of that vector space will be the elements of the associated field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_(mathematics)

PATTERNS: UNLOCKING THE UNIVERSE

– Cells make up tissue which make organs which make systems that work together to create humans.
– Similarly organized is our universe – Suns make up galaxies which together form nebula which work together to create our universe.

Even systems that we’ve created on our own operate with a similar type of organization and hierarchy: In general we think of evolution as a process which describes how we started as little bacteria and ended up as sentient humans. Evolution is much more than that.

All systems undergo evolution – it is a constant that goes hand in hand with time. As outside forces act on an object, it evolves. It erodes, it adapts, it changes. Even with radically different applications, all systems that evolve tend to operate with the same basic mechanics. Evolution is a process that creates a similar pattern of increasing order & complexity through constant iteration and problem solving.

There is a hierarchical organization structure that is repeatably found throughout evolving systems in our universe. Evolution works through indirection: each stage uses the information-processing methods of the previous to create the next. A byproduct of evolution is order & organization – things fit nice and neatly together (or they get killed off).

Evolution is one of the patterns that recurs across different scales of reality. From the cosmic & universal scale, to the cellar & atomic scale. The infinitely big, and the infinitely small. In particular, Human evolution took millions of years – slowly iterating and increasing in complexity.

http://juliansarokin.com/patterns-unlocking-the-universe/#

 

[river]

Well you cannot see any pattern unless it is physically expressed. Without stuff there would be no patterns, but the mathematical essence of spacetime would still be an inherent potential of its geometry, i.e.
Vector (mathematics and physics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(mathematics_and_physics)

Scalar (mathematics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_(mathematics)

Without the physical , mathematics would not exist .

 

[Write4U]

Without the physical , mathematics would not exist .

Without space time would not exist. Without mathematics the universe would be in perpetual physical chaos. Order would not exist.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Without the physical , mathematics would not exist .

Without space time would not exist. Without mathematics the universe would be in perpetual physical chaos. Order would not exist.

And what does the mathematics analyze to come to this conclusion of yours ?

 

[Write4U]

And what does the mathematics analyze to come to this conclusion of yours ?

Mathematics don't analyze anything. It is an emergent result of the spacetime geometry. It's the way thing work.
Humans analyze things using human symbolized mathematics to understand the way things work within the spacetime geometry.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
And what does the mathematics analyze to come to this conclusion of yours ?

Mathematics don't analyze anything. It is an emergent result of the spacetime geometry. It's the way thing work.
Humans analyze things using human symbolized mathematics to understand the way things work within the spacetime geometry.

Highlighted

What is spacetime geometry based on ?

 

[Write4U]

Highlighted

What is spacetime geometry based on ?

Its natural self-assembly into patterns, like fractals, spirals , meanders, networks...etc.

Complex patterns arise through spontaneous symmetry breaking in dense homogeneous networks of neural oscillators

Abstract

There has been much interest in understanding collective dynamics in networks of brain regions due to their role in behavior and cognitive function. Here we show that a simple, homogeneous system of densely connected oscillators, representing the aggregate activity of local brain regions, can exhibit a rich variety of dynamical patterns emerging via spontaneous breaking of permutation or translational symmetries.

Upon removing just a few connections, we observe a striking departure from the mean-field limit in terms of the collective dynamics, which implies that the sparsity of these networks may have very important consequences. Our results suggest that the origins of some of the complicated activity patterns seen in the brain may be understood even with simple connection topologies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep22074

 

[river]

Its natural self-assembly into patterns, like fractals, spirals , meanders, networks...etc.

Complex patterns arise through spontaneous symmetry breaking in dense homogeneous networks of neural oscillators

Abstract https://www.nature.com/articles/srep22074

Highlighted

Which are ALL based on the Physical .

For these neural oscillators to exist , the neural needs to exist . And for the neural to exist the physical exists in the first place . Without the physical there is No " neural " .

 

[Write4U]

Highlighted

Which are ALL based on the Physical .

For these neural oscillators to exist , the neural needs to exist . And for the neural to exist the physical exists in the first place . Without the physical there is No " neural " .

River, it's an equation.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Highlighted

Which are ALL based on the Physical .

For these neural oscillators to exist , the neural needs to exist . And for the neural to exist the physical exists in the first place . Without the physical there is No " neural " .

River, it's an equation.

Not based on the physical , obviously .