Trying to hard to believe

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jayleew

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I think I'm going insane. My wife is a believer. Always has been. I was for the first couple decades of my life. I cannot believe and I won't pretend (tried that too). I no longer believe, but my wife attends a church that I don't mind going occasionally to with her. They have a good apologetic spin on scripture, so it isn't overly hardcore Christian. They stick to the basics and don't assume anything else. The only part I don't like is the words to the songs they sing (because I can't relate), but I like the music and they serve donuts and coffee every Sunday morning. :)

So, it is really hard living with her because her focus is on her club. I, like a good husband, want to share her likes. I don't have the heart to tell her that I probably won't ever believe in God again. She has hope for me as do all of my family whom I love, who also attend this church. I just don't think it is going to happen. It pains me to think that they are wasting their wishes away on me.

The most recent decision I came to was Jesus was a real person based on historical record. No matter what, his divinity cannot be proven today without divine intervention. There is simply no evidence other than a collection of stories, which may or may not be fictitious, but are definitely biased to the belief that Jesus was the son of God.

This church laid out the plan simply that abiding by Jesus Christ is the only thing I need worry about and that all the laws in the scripture are made for those who live by the law. If I kept my eyes on Jesus then that's all I need to worry about.

Sounds simple, but what if Jesus' divinity is a myth? I'd be foolish and weakminded to accept anything as fact without sufficient evidence. Why does it feel so wrong to accept that fate? What do I gain by choosing to not accept Jesus' divinity as fact? If I accept this fact, where do I draw the line for other myths? How can I accept this one and not also other myths and legends?
 
jayleew said:
I think I'm going insane. My wife is a believer. Always has been. I was for the first couple decades of my life. I cannot believe and I won't pretend (tried that too). I no longer believe, but my wife attends a church that I don't mind going occasionally to with her. They have a good apologetic spin on scripture, so it isn't overly hardcore Christian. They stick to the basics and don't assume anything else. The only part I don't like is the words to the songs they sing (because I can't relate), but I like the music and they serve donuts and coffee every Sunday morning. :)

So, it is really hard living with her because her focus is on her club. I, like a good husband, want to share her likes. I don't have the heart to tell her that I probably won't ever believe in God again. She has hope for me as do all of my family whom I love, who also attend this church. I just don't think it is going to happen. It pains me to think that they are wasting their wishes away on me.

The most recent decision I came to was Jesus was a real person based on historical record. No matter what, his divinity cannot be proven today without divine intervention. There is simply no evidence other than a collection of stories, which may or may not be fictitious, but are definitely biased to the belief that Jesus was the son of God.

This church laid out the plan simply that abiding by Jesus Christ is the only thing I need worry about and that all the laws in the scripture are made for those who live by the law. If I kept my eyes on Jesus then that's all I need to worry about.

Sounds simple, but what if Jesus' divinity is a myth? I'd be foolish and weakminded to accept anything as fact without sufficient evidence. Why does it feel so wrong to accept that fate? What do I gain by choosing to not accept Jesus' divinity as fact? If I accept this fact, where do I draw the line for other myths? How can I accept this one and not also other myths and legends?
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They're going to have to accept that you're not a believer. If they love you, they'll deal with it. But it's best to be up-front and honest about it, rather than letting them believe it's a possibility. Otherwise you'll go nuts, and string them along in the process.

I'm presuming your wife isn't going to leave you if you decline her invitation to crazytown, but if not, then you need to ask yourself if you'd rather live a lie or live alone.
 
Just let her do her own thing on Sundays while you do yours! That way you both can enjoy what each of you want to do and let the other enjoy their time away, a few hours won't hurt anyone. I go to church, rarely, with a friend of mine just to show him that I can get along with his beliefs as he does the same for me and never argues as to who's correct. We get into talks about religion from time to time, but not often and we can agree to disagree about many areas and still be lifetime friends.
 
Thanks for the advice. What I'd like to explore is the philosophical answers.

Given that Jesus' existence is not in question, but his divinity is, what do I gain by NOT accepting Jesus' divinity as fact? If I accept this fact, where do I draw the line for other myths? How can I accept this one and not also other myths and legends?

I follow Utilitarian code of ethics. So, shouldn't I choose to accept that Jesus was divine so that the decision benefits the majority?
 
jayleew said:
Thanks for the advice. What I'd like to explore is the philosophical answers.

Given that Jesus' existence is not in question, but his divinity is, what do I gain by NOT accepting Jesus' divinity as fact? If I accept this fact, where do I draw the line for other myths? How can I accept this one and not also other myths and legends?
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That's a good point because honesty is important for trust, which society depends on. In the old days, it was hard to find enough evidence that the Gospels were mostly mythical, but with late knowledge, they aren't much more believable than the other myths.

I follow Utilitarian code of ethics. So, shouldn't I choose to accept that Jesus was divine so that the decision benefits the majority?
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Or maybe the best for the most is not to hide your doubts about the truth of the stories. For your sphere of existence though, you might have to be diplomatic and not push the matter.
 
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Just to throw a thought in, you can believe in a historical Jesus and his teachings, much like Jefferson did when he made his edited version of the Bible. But "choosing to accept" just means that you're not believing it, but are just letting that part go by without questioning it. It's still lying to yourself, but I guess it's a priority thing, if you can deal with that much and it makes your life work, then maybe it's better than rocking the boat. The next level down, where you don't believe it but just choose to not say anything when it's brought up is probably a common thing for marriages where the religious views differ. It's not really fair, but atheists have the ability to pretend while a believer really doesn't, at least not without testing their own faith.
 
First of all. I do believe in god but have a unique perspective.

Aside from what RELIGIONS say. Why not consider that there were billions of people alive prior to the birth of any religion around today. Then consider that the religion you associate with was geographically inaccessible to half the planet or more.

Let's instead assume for a minute that all religions have some merit. Would any god be so shallow as to expect you to have faith in something that happened 2000 years ago?

Look at what is COMMON among religions.

All Religions...
a) Have people pray. Usually with hands put together in front.
b) Teach faith can Heal, create, (move mountains type stuff).
c) Teach Thankfulness/Gratefulness.

A new age religion called "Law of Attraction" has emerged that suggests thoughts help create our reality. Perhaps God is not an old man in a robe, or a 2000 year old Jew, but instead is a part of everything.

I think god is "All that is" plus perhaps a bit more. God knows every sparrow that falls n the forest because God is every sparrow that falls in the forest.

Now all religions including law of attraction have you state an intention.
Ask and you shall receive, or even visualize a goal.
Then have faith it will come.
Always be grateful for what you do have.

In Law of Attraction as in many religions the thought of thankfulness is the best attitude, as allegedly you are attracting to you what you think about most. So if you are grateful then you attract MORE reasons to be grateful. This may be bottom line stuff for many religions.

Try doing daily affirmations too achieve a goal.

"I am in Disneyworld with my family for two weeks" might be a good daily affirmation.
Repeat this for at least 5-10 minutes upon awakening and 5-10 minutes before going to sleep, and at least say it a few times every time you go to the washroom.

Do not say "I will go to Disneyland" as "will" always implies the future. Make your affirmations present or past tense.

I will say that "Magic" happens when you do affirmations.

Once I was on summer break from University and was feeling rather poor. I started doing affirmations repeating the word "Wealth" for a few hours everyday and wrote down everything I ever wanted, and then wrote them again in the order I wanted them.

The following week I received a summer job paying $32.50/hour with double that on weekends. I worked 10 hours on Saturdays and made more than a dollar a minute.

This was in fact a Union Printing job running a simple 25" ADAST 1 colour perfecting (both sides of paper) printing press, that I knew how to run because of my families involvement with printing while I was growing up.

Previous to this UNION job I had never made more than $20/hour on a press, but this was $28.50/hour plus $4/hour shift premium (nightshift). UNION jobs NEVER appeared in the paper, but because ADAST was a cheaper and rather unknown press type they were forced to advertise in the classifieds.

A fellow was off sick with a collapsed lung, etc., and I was taking home $900/week for my summer job. The fellow returned before school reopened, which is too bad because I never made that kind of money as a Soil Engineer, and would have happily done that job for life. Printing was a sunset industry at the time though, so I made a good choice.

Another time I was looking for a new girlfriend, and like the wealth idea I listed all of my qualifications.

I was a young horndog at the time so my daily affirmations went like this,

"I have (past tense) a gorgeous girlfriend who loves me and is wild enough to have sex in the middle of City Hall"

Basically I was looking for a girl with no hang-ups and that was a free spirit like I was back then.

Within 2 weeks I started dating a gorgeous girl. Now that does not quite reveal how the "MAGIC" comes into affirmations. So I will continue.

This girl worked at a tiny Art Gallery. Guess where the Art Gallery was located?

In the "Middle of City Hall". I'll end that story there.

This was many years ago in the Town of Cobourg Ontario.

Whenever you start daily affirmations pay attention to things that seem coincidental. While affirming your trip to Disneyworld you may start to notice many more Disneyworld commercials on television. You may start to see more disney movies listed. This is your thoughts bringing the reality to you in small doses keep it up.

When you have numerous successes try asking for things that likely would never happen otherwise to aid your faith.

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Now try something like Telepathy with a friend.
Spend one hour from 2am-3am while your friend is sleeping and send a message to contact you in the morning. This works much of the time, so try again if no "magic" on the first go. I think it is dependent upon if you hit a dream REM sequence. That would also aid your belief in God because now you will understand that thoughts can travel and could be intermixed with the Universe/God.

I might also ask someone to look at The Double Slit Experiment with The Consciousness view point frowned upon here in Sciforums. This is the religious section though so who cares.
click this and watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
It does not seem to affect many here on sciforums, but this experiment has turned some physicists towards God. It's too freaky.
 
The evidence for Jesus' divinity is the same as for his existence. Jayleew, you managed to develop some common sense, don't give that away for sex, it's not worth it. Be yourself, and if your wife can't deal with it, that's her problem.
 
jayleew said:
I think I'm going insane. My wife is a believer. Always has been. I was for the first couple decades of my life. I cannot believe and I won't pretend (tried that too). I no longer believe, but my wife attends a church that I don't mind going occasionally to with her. They have a good apologetic spin on scripture, so it isn't overly hardcore Christian. They stick to the basics and don't assume anything else. The only part I don't like is the words to the songs they sing (because I can't relate), but I like the music and they serve donuts and coffee every Sunday morning. :)

So, it is really hard living with her because her focus is on her club. I, like a good husband, want to share her likes. I don't have the heart to tell her that I probably won't ever believe in God again. She has hope for me as do all of my family whom I love, who also attend this church. I just don't think it is going to happen. It pains me to think that they are wasting their wishes away on me.

The most recent decision I came to was Jesus was a real person based on historical record. No matter what, his divinity cannot be proven today without divine intervention. There is simply no evidence other than a collection of stories, which may or may not be fictitious, but are definitely biased to the belief that Jesus was the son of God.

This church laid out the plan simply that abiding by Jesus Christ is the only thing I need worry about and that all the laws in the scripture are made for those who live by the law. If I kept my eyes on Jesus then that's all I need to worry about.

Sounds simple, but what if Jesus' divinity is a myth? I'd be foolish and weakminded to accept anything as fact without sufficient evidence. Why does it feel so wrong to accept that fate? What do I gain by choosing to not accept Jesus' divinity as fact? If I accept this fact, where do I draw the line for other myths? How can I accept this one and not also other myths and legends?
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Do you love your wife ? is the first question , if you do you do something for her even you don't like it. you are not 24 hours in the church .
You believe or not in the person Jesus at some point , even you are an unbeliever you have to think if His teaching was or is good for the society morals and behavior. I take we are all sons of God so I don't have any problem in accepting . Evidence : the only evidence is if I can see it or touch it, So that wipes out many thing that history teaches us as facts . Keep your eye on Jesus , the meaning is remember the teaching of Jesus and follow His teaching , Such teaching will lead you out of trouble . " If Jesus is a myth " Have He done any thing harmful for the society ? Why do you believe in Socrates ? He have not written his biography is he a myth ? You grasp very often for evidence you don't want to be weakminded , you actually be an intellectual because you believe in facts . Do you believe Hannibal crossed the Alps with elephants, there are many more of historical events that we believe , what evidence do we have , We take by faith in what some one have writte
 
spidergoat said:
The evidence for Jesus' divinity is the same as for his existence. Jayleew, you managed to develop some common sense, don't give that away for sex, it's not worth it. Be yourself, and if your wife can't deal with it, that's her problem.
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That is a very selfish advice . That is why over 50 % of the marriages go in divorce .
 
spidergoat said:
So you would recommend living a lie?
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No, there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't believe everything you believe, but if it's important to you I'll go to church with you/spend time with your friends etc."

What about having real communication? Isn't that important?
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The above is real communication.
 
spidergoat said:
So you would recommend living a lie? What about having real communication? Isn't that important?
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There are millions of people that are married with nonbeliever and have a good relationship , are you saying they should split ? wow., by the way are you married ? and your wife become an atheist ?
 
spidergoat said:
Yes, the myth of Jesus has done irreparable harm to society for centuries.
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Do you have any proof that Jesus did not exist . I definitively would like to see that . Do you really believe past humanity create an imaginary figure to create a religion , what would the purpose since there were many religion at that time
 
billvon said:
No, there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't believe everything you believe, but if it's important to you I'll go to church with you/spend time with your friends etc."



The above is real communication.
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I agree, that would be a positive thing.
 
arauca said:
Do you have any proof that Jesus did not exist . I definitively would like to see that . Do you really believe past humanity create an imaginary figure to create a religion , what would the purpose since there were many religion at that time
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Which Jesus, an actual man going by that name, or the mythological figure that rises from death? Since no one rises from actual death, that Jesus cannot have existed. I can't prove that there wasn't a regular mortal guy named Yahushua.

What's the purpose of a culture having it's own mythological figure? You can't be serious, why do we have our own sports teams? And I don't think it was done by one person, mythology develops over time. Just look at Elvis. It sounds silly, but it's the same process. Or look at Mormonism. Where the hell are the golden tablets? Or scientology? Created by a demented sci-fi writer sketching it out on the back of a napkin. The original figure is just the seed, and it spreads from there.
 
arauca said:
There are millions of people that are married with nonbeliever and have a good relationship , are you saying they should split ? wow., by the way are you married ? and your wife become an atheist ?
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I'm not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't make for mutual respect. I am not married. But I would not marry a believer. They would corrupt my children with their horrors. Even if we didn't have kids, I would find it hard to respect someone who believed in anything supernatural, or in crystal healing, or homeopathy, or ghosts. I don't even like fortune cookies.
 
spidergoat said:
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't make for mutual respect. I am not married. But I would not marry a believer. They would corrupt my children with their horrors. Even if we didn't have kids, I would find it hard to respect someone who believed in anything supernatural, or in crystal healing, or homeopathy, or ghosts. I don't even like fortune cookies.
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That is you . I was married 3 time all my wife's were of different faith ( 2 have died ) the mother of my boys have taken them to there own church , it did not bother me , I care for the all . I would like that we would go to the same service, but our differences do not disturb our relationship.
 
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