UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

[Q-reeus]

You did not even complete the thought before lapsing into section II.


Section II: Schoolyard taunts

Thanks, in a way, for that repeated example of flattery by imitation: http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3678161/
"...When you stooped to the level of juvenile school yard taunts here:..."
That post of mine is over two months old. Tells me you have been doing quite some dredging. Of course it's not intended to be flattery - you hurl the phrase back as an act of mockery. And flaming. Cool.

 

[wegs]

Do you think it's scarier if alien life exists or doesn't? Would it somehow be ''better'' for us if we're ''alone?'' If we're alone, that would mean no one is ever coming to rescue us (not that we need rescuing...yet.)

 

[Q-reeus]

Do you think it's scarier if alien life exists or doesn't? Would it somehow be ''better'' for us if we're ''alone?'' If we're alone, that would mean no one is ever coming to rescue us (not that we need rescuing...yet.)

How to handle this nice attempt at an ice-breaker? Well, ignoring the truly copious evidence we are 'not alone' in regards to non-human intelligences manifesting in various ways, as per many evidential posts this thread, the sub-topic here is implicitly referring to distant-planet-origin advanced intelligence flesh-and-blood/AI-descendants aliens or their proxies.

In the absence of any real evidence for advanced civilizations on planets orbiting distant stars, it's pure speculation as to their existence. Those that look to e.g. the 'Drake Equation' as presenting anything remotely reliable as to the odds, you're welcome to it. Too many iffy assumptions for my liking.

But supposing classical Sci-Fi notion aliens did arrive tomorrow. Just being able to get here means they would be far in advance of our science and technology. So we would be at their mercy - forget the stupid 'Independence Day' heroic fightback nonsense. Game over before it started. If 'they' are benign well they might just choose to 'lurk' as silent observers as some think is what's been happening. Which however cannot explain the many encounters where lots of bright multi-colored flashing lights were on show. Or a similar huge variety of entertaining/spooking antics. The one valid bit of thinking by 'debunker' crew here is that given the assumption of visitations by benign alien piloted UFOs, why have they not revealed themselves openly by now?

Everyone here knows my preferred position, and it has nothing to do with matter-based aliens/AI piloting nuts-n-bolts matter-based UFO craft.

 

[Michael 345]

Do you think it's scarier if alien life exists or doesn't? Would it somehow be ''better'' for us if we're ''alone?'' If we're alone, that would mean no one is ever coming to rescue us (not that we need rescuing...yet.)

Think the existence or non existent question is moot

If exist to far way to visit to assist / kill

Degrassi looks at the difference between our genes and our nearest relative and there is a 5% difference

Gets a bit wonky here I think. Imagine a alien with 5% increase (in THEIR equivalent of DNA) to our DNA. Could that even be worked out?

Think a better way to try to figure out a scaled time comparison. Mark out on the time scale when the aliens / us discovered significant science discoveries

With enough discoveries we should be able to see if we are marching in step in the early days (eons) and how long after the end of our discoveries did it take them to get where they are now

Can we shorten the extra years we require to reach their level, by standing on the shoulders of THEIR giants? Will they pass on their knowledge to us?

 

[James R]

My guess is you and the other prime vengeful disaffected here James R swap notes quite often as how to best harass MR and myself with pure made up shit.

That's your conspiracist paranoia kicking in there. Now might be a good time for a reality check.

 

[James R]

Do you think it's scarier if alien life exists or doesn't? Would it somehow be ''better'' for us if we're ''alone?'' If we're alone, that would mean no one is ever coming to rescue us (not that we need rescuing...yet.)

It really depends on two things:
(1) whether the alien life is friendly, neutral or antagonistic towards us; and
(2) whether the alien life can ever get to us from wherever it is.

Sci-fi movies usually prefer the trope of the threatening aliens that are out to kill us all, take over out planet etc., because we all like being scared (by movies) and it generally makes for easier plotting and for a "problem" that the protagonists have to deal with. But it seems just as likely (perhaps more likely) that any intelligent aliens we're ever likely to meet will be friendly - or maybe they'll have a Star Trek-like "prime directive" to leave us alone.

But suppose that there is an evil alien Empire out there somewhere that wants to obliterate everything that isn't itself. It still has to get here in order to obliterate us. The universe is an ENORMOUS place. It's not easy to get to here from there. They are going to have to really want to come to obliterate us (or whatever). They will have to allocate resources to it.

 

[James R]

Well, ignoring the truly copious evidence we are 'not alone' in regards to non-human intelligences manifesting in various ways...

Reality check: there is no good evidence, just "copious" anecdotal claims, poorly supported.

In the absence of any real evidence for advanced civilizations on planets orbiting distant stars, it's pure speculation as to their existence. Those that look to e.g. the 'Drake Equation' as presenting anything remotely reliable as to the odds, you're welcome to it. Too many iffy assumptions for my liking.

The equation is perfectly reasonable. The problem lies in accurately estimating the values of the variables in the equation. Those last few items become more and more difficult to pin down.

But supposing classical Sci-Fi notion aliens did arrive tomorrow. Just being able to get here means they would be far in advance of our science and technology. So we would be at their mercy - forget the stupid 'Independence Day' heroic fightback nonsense. Game over before it started. If 'they' are benign well they might just choose to 'lurk' as silent observers as some think is what's been happening.

Hey! Q-reeus wrote something I can agree with!

The one valid bit of thinking by 'debunker' crew here is that given the assumption of visitations by benign alien piloted UFOs, why have they not revealed themselves openly by now?

It's interesting to me that a lot of the UFO enthusiast brigade, like Q-reeus, seem prone to conspiracist and paranoid thinking. There are some UFO enthusiasts who believe that the aliens are friendly, but they seem to be in the minority. I think the kind of mindset that distrusts organisations implicitly (governments, corporations, social institutions etc.) is also very likely to be the sort of mindset that views "the aliens" as one more "other" that is threatening and not to be trusted. Paranoia ties in neatly with xenophobia.

Everyone here knows my preferred position, and it has nothing to do with matter-based aliens/AI piloting nuts-n-bolts matter-based UFO craft.

Q-reeus thinks UFOs are ghosts.

 

[Q-reeus]

That's your conspiracist paranoia kicking in there. Now might be a good time for a reality check.

Back from the crypt again. And wasting no time to invoke the magic word 'conspiracist' - pitched perfectly to coincide with a certain 20th anniversary. Smart yet stupid at the same time. Does this qualify me for another 20 warning points? Wouldn't shock at all.

 

[James R]

Got any response to the content of my posts, Q-reeus, or are you just in an insulting mood today (as usual)?

 

[Q-reeus]

Reality check: there is no good evidence, just "copious" anecdotal claims, poorly supported.

Been over this a hundred times or more. You and ilk simply label any and all evidence as 'poorly supported'. Pentagon and US Navy spokespersons and many whistleblowers for instance disagree. As you well know.

It's interesting to me that a lot of the UFO enthusiast brigade, like Q-reeus, seem prone to conspiracist and paranoid thinking. There are some UFO enthusiasts who believe that the aliens are friendly, but they seem to be in the minority. I think the kind of mindset that distrusts organisations implicitly (governments, corporations, social institutions etc.) is also very likely to be the sort of mindset that views "the aliens" as one more "other" that is threatening and not to be trusted. Paranoia ties in neatly with xenophobia.

Go on! On the other hand some recognize such blanket linkage insinuations as basically malicious gutter tactics. Something you repeat here over and over.

Q-reeus thinks UFOs are ghosts.

You are without any valid excuse on this endlessly repeated bating point:
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3681534/
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3670966/
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3663969/
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3663907/
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3659425/
http://www.sciforums.com/posts/3657936/
Rat, snake, weasel, incorrigible liar. Those are the nicest words I can manage to describe you.

 

[Q-reeus]

Got any response to the content of my posts, Q-reeus, or are you just in an insulting mood today (as usual)?

See my last post.

 

[James R]

My clearly and oft repeated position is that intelligent entities masquerade as both poltergeist and UFOs/UAPs. And ghosts and elves etc.

So what are these "intelligent" entities really, when they have thrown off their clever disguises? Where do they live? How do they get here? Are they made of normal atoms and stuff, or magical fairy energy or something?

Most important question: what is it that makes you believe in these masquerading "entities" at all? Is this your own original idea, or did somebody else put it in your head?

You never answered this post, either, did you:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/q-...ellectual-humility.164017/page-4#post-3664066

Here's what I wrote there:

What other forms do your unspecified "intelligent entities" take, Q-reeus? Are they universal place-fillers for every bit of woo you believe in? So far, you've told us you believe they "masquerade" as ghosts, elves, UFOs and poltergeists. What other woo do you believe in? Can they masquerade as bigfoot, the yeti, demons, pixies, fairies, the Loch Ness monster, pyramid power, gremlins, crystal energy, midichlorians? Anything I've missed?

Questions for another thread, really, but we could dig into what direct evidence you think you have for the existence of these unspecified "intelligent entities" or yours. We could also investigate how you uncovered these elaborate masquerades. It sound like you may have made a world-first breakthrough there! Is there a woo prize you can apply for?
​

Here's another belief you have that you can't justify at all:

"And I have been for a long time here pointed to just why imo 'space aliens' are really paranormal manifestations by entities evidently domiciled in some other realm of existence."​

That's me quoting your own words, BTW.

​

I mean, "some other realm of existence" is just useless as a description of anything, isn't it? How many other realms of existence do we currently know about? Let's count them. Er... none. None at all. There's not a whiff of evidence for anything like that. The term itself is, in fact, so poorly defined that it's practically meaningless.

And whenever any of this nonsense is pointed out, you blow your top and start throwing insults left, right and centre. When will you grow up?

 

[wegs]

It really depends on two things:
(1) whether the alien life is friendly, neutral or antagonistic towards us; and
(2) whether the alien life can ever get to us from wherever it is.

Sci-fi movies usually prefer the trope of the threatening aliens that are out to kill us all, take over out planet etc., because we all like being scared (by movies) and it generally makes for easier plotting and for a "problem" that the protagonists have to deal with. But it seems just as likely (perhaps more likely) that any intelligent aliens we're ever likely to meet will be friendly - or maybe they'll have a Star Trek-like "prime directive" to leave us alone.

But suppose that there is an evil alien Empire out there somewhere that wants to obliterate everything that isn't itself. It still has to get here in order to obliterate us. The universe is an ENORMOUS place. It's not easy to get to here from there. They are going to have to really want to come to obliterate us (or whatever). They will have to allocate resources to it.

Great points! I think what makes me skeptical of people who claim to have seen alien UFO’s is that aliens would have to go to incredible lengths (at least from our human perspective - but, maybe it’s nothing to “them”) to get here - so, why not at least *try* to communicate with us?

 

[wegs]

How to handle this nice attempt at an ice-breaker? Well, ignoring the truly copious evidence we are 'not alone' in regards to non-human intelligences manifesting in various ways, as per many evidential posts this thread, the sub-topic here is implicitly referring to distant-planet-origin advanced intelligence flesh-and-blood/AI-descendants aliens or their proxies.

In the absence of any real evidence for advanced civilizations on planets orbiting distant stars, it's pure speculation as to their existence. Those that look to e.g. the 'Drake Equation' as presenting anything remotely reliable as to the odds, you're welcome to it. Too many iffy assumptions for my liking.

But supposing classical Sci-Fi notion aliens did arrive tomorrow. Just being able to get here means they would be far in advance of our science and technology. So we would be at their mercy - forget the stupid 'Independence Day' heroic fightback nonsense. Game over before it started. If 'they' are benign well they might just choose to 'lurk' as silent observers as some think is what's been happening. Which however cannot explain the many encounters where lots of bright multi-colored flashing lights were on show. Or a similar huge variety of entertaining/spooking antics. The one valid bit of thinking by 'debunker' crew here is that given the assumption of visitations by benign alien piloted UFOs, why have they not revealed themselves openly by now?

Everyone here knows my preferred position, and it has nothing to do with matter-based aliens/AI piloting nuts-n-bolts matter-based UFO craft.

Yea, I’d like to believe they exist, because it’s interesting to ponder what’s out there, the mystery of it all, the what-if scenarios...but, like I replied to James - why not communicate with us, already?!

 

[cluelusshusbund]

But it seems just as likely (perhaps more likely) that any intelligent aliens we're ever likely to meet will be friendly - or maybe they'll have a Star Trek-like "prime directive" to leave us alone.

Good pont... i mean... why woudnt they be frindly as long as they have the power to overwhelm us an we behave the way they want us to an we are not in the way of some other project they deem necessary

 

[foghorn]

Good pont... i mean... why woudnt they be frindly as long as they have the power to overwhelm us an we behave the way they want us to an we are not in the way of some other project they deem necessary

Assuming you're human, do you only talk to people because you know you can beat them up?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

No.!!!

 

[foghorn]

No.!!!

Glad to hear it.
Well, let's hope there is intelligent life 'out there' that won't mind communicating with us just for purely inquisitive reasons.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Spoiler

 

[C C]

Do you think it's scarier if alien life exists or doesn't? Would it somehow be ''better'' for us if we're ''alone?'' If we're alone, that would mean no one is ever coming to rescue us (not that we need rescuing...yet.)

As far as complex life goes that is intelligent in an open-ended technological manner... It depends on where they're located and how many instances have arisen. Irrelevant if located in another galaxy, and arguably the same if very distant from us in the Milky Way (unless they've been around for millions of years).

But to have another space traveling civilization nearby would be alarming because it seems too much to attribute to another long streak of accidents and coincidences. Earth has had enough luck in its circa 4.5 billion year history, without extending those fortuitous odds for parsecs beyond the solar system in this rural neighborhood. It would imply that both complex life and open-ended technological intelligence are everywhere, that their probability is astonishingly high even in unlikely environments[1], not extremely rare. And lots of them squirming around would enhance the possibility of one or more being detrimental (eventually). Just having launched a seed probe toward Sol thousands of years ago -- loaded with nanobot builders endowed with no moral programming -- would be unpleasant.

- - - footnote - - -

[1] If there happens to be complex life locally, that would be mildly perturbing (mystery wise), especially if it's on a planet that orbits a volatile red dwarf sun, lacks a protective magnetic field, lacks plate tectonics, lacked rare potential triggers (biological, geological, climatological, etc) in its history and other features. However, the distant, crowded interior of the galaxy is especially dangerous to the development and persistence of complex life due to all the apocalyptic events that can occur more frequently there.

An "average" intelligent species wouldn't be much different from humdrum complex life in terms of getting off its world, because the level of abstract thinking and engineering sophistication needed for advanced technology shouldn't be an inevitability of entry-level sapience (requires various circumstances to inadvertently converge, just as with the emergence of complex life.) However, again, quite unsettling (mystery wise) if that is not the case.